That will never happen InshaAllah. There will always be a group that will be on the haq and continue to guide people on the haq (remember the hadith that the ummah will never unite on misguidance). Yes scholarship will reduce, which you can see even today where if you compare the person whom you consider to be the greatest alim today with any one from our pious predecessors you will see how levels apart they are. And this is one of the reasons you see these people whom you consider to be scholars starting to make some form of compromise (the other reason being them not acting upon their very own teachings). When haq will totally end will be the latter end of times when there will be kufr everywhere!
Are we giving carte blanche to Sunni ulama to share stages with deviants or sulh kullis for issues of common concern without pulling them up on their misdemeanors? Are we saying it's ok to sell Hijab to Sunnis? Should we invite Burhan sahib and Shams without getting assurance from them that they will refrain from Minhaj and Devs? There's an event scheduled today for Palestine - I mentioned it above - but I haven't put the poster on FB asking questions yet as I don't wish to jeopardize such an event. But I'll do it afterwards as this is certainly normalisation with sulh kullis.
There is hadith that I read somewhere ...it's essence is that close to qiyamat people will loose their imaan swiftly such that in the morning they will be mu'min and by sunset will loose their imaan. I always wondered how will that be possible... Now I think it's becoming more visible. In a few years time. All the righteous Ulama will leave and the people causing confusion will remain and ultimately the public will remain confused. Therefore that day is not far where sunnis will be taking fatawa from taqi usmani and the entire globe calling him a Mufti e Aalam.
I completely understand that you can join hands on issues that are common to all Muslims but I do have to again ask- what if the conferences in which you are joining hands are unlikely to cause any difference whatsoever? Meaning, is the permission (for scholars to join hands with scholars of other sects for issues concerning Muslims more broadly) unrestricted or is it restricted in that the conferences/etc that they're engaged in must have a significant chance of making a material difference? What are the other conditions that must be satisfied by the attending sunni scholars? Genuine question. I don't want to sound pessimistic but these conferences have about as much chance of helping the gazans as me and my mates talking about the Palestine issue over tea and biscuits. Not saying no one should talk about it, just saying you can talk about it from your own lane without merging lanes with the wahabbis.
Who on that poster has or will call out the two on their sulh kullism? Or is Palestine a reason to ignore everything?
Asrar Rashid makes his aqidah/manhaj clear always. He routinely debates or chastises wahabis/shias etc when it comes to sectarian kerfuffles. Let's leave him aside for a while. Will or should Sunnis canvas for the known rafidi Mehdi Hassan who got canceled from msnbc for the obvious reason of grilling Israelis and questioning the pro Israel status quo? Or should we cancel him even before western media does - once again for an obvious reason - of being an open and unashamed insulter of sahaba? We all want the best interests of Islam and the ummah of course. Do we deal with every issue/person at a root cause level or at a symptomatic level too - for the best interests of Islam and the ummah? Genuine questions. Full disclosure- on this Mehdi Hassan guy, I'm in an argument with myself if he needs to be supported on this clear cut matter of zionist lobby bullying him because they can't rein him in (symptomatic level for Muslim interests) or discard him and leave him alone (root cause level interests of the ummah due to his unabashed rifd) --- In the past Sunnis even commended Rajiv Gandhi for banning rushdie and supporting Palestine.
Isn't it ok for sunni Ulama to meet sullahs and deviants over common issues? Is Palestine not a common issue? "Phir phir kar har jaanib dekhoon koi aas na paas kahin, Haan ek tooti aas ne haaray jee say rafaaqat paali he"
Unfortunately, Burhan sb goes to Minhaj and I'm told Shams Tameez is ok with Devs. When reputable people share stages with them, it legitimises their misdeeds and Sunnis begin to believe their actions are ok. Something needs to be done.
Brother, what was being discussed here - or what I was discussing anyway - was not simply scholar X associating with deviant Y. Rather, it was more like Sunni Scholar A associating with person B who asociates with person C who associates with Sunni Scholar D who in turn may associate and/or praise deviant(s). E.g: Shaykh Asrar (A), inviters of/those who attend with Wajid Iqbal (B), Wajid Iqbal (C), Shaykh Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi (D) or even Mawlana Arshad (A), Wajid sb (B), Shaykh Yaqoubi (C). Therefore, it is not as plain and obvious as it seems to for others to understand when someone boldly and publicly tells people not to attend a gathering like that. I can understand giving your opinion to someone in private ("brother, I don't think you should go here because..."). It also makes one question just how many levels of association are deemed problematic before it descends into absurdity. This grey area, I feel, doesn't really get explained thoroughly.
wa alaykumus salam interestingly a brother mentioned this question today. and i gave him a brief answer. am tied with many things - and the zameel threads are also pending, ramadan is also round the corner. in sha'Allah will answer soon.
If Dr Naik is local to me and I can have a personal relationship with him, does this mean I can listen to him?
Mufti Asad Ali sahab is going destroy youngsters. Everything is joke for Mufti sahab. What should be written in big bold writing has been put right at the bottom where there is a high chance of missing out what written. And what answer is even "nah..". How hard is it to type "NO He is a deviant and should be avoided". It almost seems like his doing this deliberately. We need our senior Ulama to honeslty stop Mufti sahab before he destroys many. Even the answer itself is so vague. Just stick to your "local teachers". How hard was it to type, stick to your "local Sunni ulama".
I've seen it myself that murids of Shaykh Yaqubi gifted books of Akram Nadwi to each other some weeks or months after the two did their event together.
The points about members of the public seeing scholar x with deviant y and then accepting deviant y as 'not that bad' is a good point to be honest- I never used to understand it. But, to put it simply, it's easier to understand when you realise just how ignorant the average person is. I say this as someone who is ignorant and did the exact same thing that people on this thread are warning about, by the way. As in, I used to see scholar x with deviant y and think 'hey, he must be alright really' and listen to them. It's only after years of this that I came to the realisation that that's what was happening. So I can attest first hand that sharing the stage with somebody will most certainly confuse the public. Tangentially, this kind of reminds me of something someone mentioned on this forum about hamza Yusuf. He would often criticise people for being too stupid to understand subtlety. But then, when he would say something ambiguous and get called out on it, he would say he was being subtle. Dude, if people are too stupid to understand subtlety (and they are), maybe stop using it so much then? Similar thing here- if people are too stupid to understand the intricacies of sharing a stage with dodgy people- ulema should just impose a blanket ban on themselves and half of these threads on this forum would never have been made in the first place and those same scholars wouldn't have to keep fire fighting and defending themselves.
even though it was for aqdas to answer, i felt that certain aspects need clarification and applies to all of us. as you can see, my posts try to address the issue (which is not specific to aqdas) and hence my unwelcome interference. not at all. you are free to voice dissent and i assure you that it will not be deleted. as for your question, i think i tried to answer it. we are trying to address too many issues at once. in an ideal world, sunni masajid and gatherings should invite and allow only strictly adherent sunnis to speak and preach so that people can benefit and follow them. why does the local attendee go to the gathering in a sunni masjid, instead of deobandi, salafi or maududi oriented place? and if the speaker in a sunni masjid is himself happy to go anywhere and meet any heretic without refuting the heretic - what does a common man think? that there is no harm in going anywhere. so sunni masajid and organisers should not invite those who are seen everywhere. you are entitled to your opinion and we are to ours - so long as it is not about the usul, where you and i are both bound to follow the usul of ahl al-sunnah. lets move on. another fallacy. if i had correspondence with him, that does not mean i continue to do it now. my point was that it is the job of senior people to talk to azmi sahib. how do you know he doesn't talk to them in private? mawlana arshad or mawlana asrar are local scholars. it is not like they are new to the UK and are not aware of who is who. they should understand that people 'follow' a leader. if you speak at a gathering where objectionable people speak, you hurt your own reputation. if i did not know that arshad sahib was aqdas' brother, or sh. asrar was a sunni scholar, and if someone asked me about them citing yaqoubi or wajid, i would advise them to steer clear of them. but since i know that these two are sunni scholars, i will give them the benefit of doubt. husn zann. anecdotal evidence and hypothetical scenarios can be turned around too. what if someone who attended the gathering was intrigued about yaqoubi sb and upon googling him, stumbled upon his videos praising akram nadwi and then went to a local gathering where akram nadwi and his razor punk pal were speaking - and was impressed by the punk attire of ikea furniture... ----- personally, i think these are causing more damage by providing sunnis a placebo. it is as if you can remain jahil, without learning - just attend the mawlid or burdah recital. my opposition is not new. i used to refuse to attend mawlids even in private majalis, until friends (hosts) agreed to do a reading from the sirah and hadith books, instead of singing naats that nobody understood. perhaps therefore, only a handful of friends invite me. i am a long time advocate of stopping these naat mehfil and singing gatherings and instead hold boot camps and crash courses on aqidah and fiqh. ---- which makes them vulnerable. therefore, neither mawlana arshad nor sh. asrar should lend them legitimacy. --- reputation. sunni public does not have the knowledge to understand the minutiae and the subtle differences in actions. ulama have a responsibility. the public looks up to them for validation. the words and actions of scholars are taken as proof of permissibility. scholars should be transparent and clarify their stand, so that the public is not left at the mercy of guesswork and husn zann. there are times when one is forced in unpleasant situations, but this should be clarified. scholars should be open and they should openly state their affiliations. and they should wear their belief on their sleeve. they should keep clarifying things at every opportunity. thus, people around them develop tenacity. if a scholar is not assertive about his own belief and tries to be 'neutral' or tries to avoid being seen as argumentative or belligerent and hence avoids refutation, he ultimately hurts his own reputation and in time come to be seen as dallying. of course, one need not shout and dump empty rhetoric in the name of refutation. one can be academic, and point out the errors of deviants and their enablers. that is an interesting question. let us think about it. --- Allah ta'ala knows best.
