What should a murid be like?

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Unbeknown, Jun 19, 2021.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    shocker - if true
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I think Saqib Raza, for all his islahi bayanat on community upliftment, İhsan, good character etc. is a closet tafzili at best. His son/daughter is married into world famous tafzili Riaz Shah's family. He's generally quite cozy with tafzilis. Just search his name on YouTube along with Riaz Hussain.
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Correcting pir saab.

  4. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    The key here is that we the public do not learn the deen enough to actually be able to understand what constitutes the correct beliefs, yet we seem to fool ourselves into believing that . We spend all our time learning on what will make us successful in this world but will not learn the basics that will protect our religion and make us successful in the hereafter.

    Then a subset of such people who will put all their trust in some "Peer" without even having the ability to see when this peer is making blunders. Then there is another subset of people who become so blind that they are not even able to accept that what their Peer is doing contradicts the religion in spite of having the ability to open up and search the correct rulings on the same topics from our pious ulema of the previous generations.

    Just a century ago the common Muslim was much more versed in the basics of religion. When Ala Hazrat and the sunni ulema issued verdicts against those deviants most of the public could understand the correct path and readily distanced themselves from deviants. Today the children of such staunch Sunni Muslims of the past turn a blind eye towards these very same verdicts and are willing to intermingle with deviants, and the effects of these are what we see today and are discussing now and again.

    We can see the proof in recent episodes where deviances of individuals are becoming apparent, yet we have the so called ulema (forget the general public) associating themselves with such individuals.

    Forget Irfan Shah, just look at Saqib Raza Mustafai who very recently can be seen in a mehfil with none other than the most famous "Rafzi donning Sunni attire" of our times - PAQs of Walthamstow. And PAQs deviancy is well known throughout Pakistan too.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Probably the biggest problem in this regard are those molwis and pirs who were once Sunni or were known as such and now espouse something other than Ahl al-Sunnah creed.

    They've already gathered a large Sunni following who can't see the wood for the trees. Such followers aren't objective. They would rebut the same ideas if they weren't emanating from their pir. Similar to devbandis, the biggest munafiqs of our times.

    The only answer is knowledge and basing all positions on ulama of the past. They are the standard. Whatever transpires from a pir today that goes against what our predecessors said or did, it will be rejected.
    hasan and Unbeknown like this.
  6. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Well-Known Member

    Its not a subject that has been expounded on in recent times especially in the sub continent.
    I came across a video a couple of months ago of some sub continent sufis doing some kind of tawaaf around an enshrined grave, Mufti Asif Jallali spoke about shirk but said the only fatwa he is able to give on them is of fisq. The video is also titled with the word shirk. So we could have a situation where what we are doing is shirk and but the leniency of the fatwa is camouflaging our state.
  7. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Isn’t this self explanatory? Or am I missing something here?
  8. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Well-Known Member

    Can you please expand on this (when you get time). What constitutes scholar and pir worship? Do you or are we to recognise sect-worship?
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  9. Sorry, correcting the errors from the cut and past I did below.

    Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) said:

    The Messenger of Allah ( may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him ) said, "Verily, Allah likes three things for you and disapproves three things for you. He likes that you should worship Him Alone, not to associate anything with Him (in worship) and to hold fast to the Rope of Allah and not to be divided among yourselves; and He disapproves for you irrelevant talk, persistent questioning and the wasting of the wealth."

  10. He responded, “Then if you follow me, do not question me about anything until I ˹myself˺ clarify it for you.” (Surah Al Kahf- Verse 70)

    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

    Verily Allah likes three things for you and He disapproves three things for you. He is pleased with you that you worship Him and associate nor anything with Him, that you hold fast the rope of Allah, and be not scattered; and He disapproves for you irrelevant talk, persistent questioning ane the wasting of wealth.

    As for the General etiquette between Master and student then it is one of Trust with questions that are sincere, questions that foster progress. If they are questions based on Mistrust then Fear Allah because "Some Suspicion is sin" (Surah 49:12). If you have a teacher, check your inner reasoning and state before you ask. If you are satisfied it is intentioned by good will all round go ahead and ask. If you are insecure about who you are taking from, then find another teacher but don't ask incessant questions because he might be making a mistake.
    This is dangerous.
  11. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    Think the not eating too much food aspect of zuhd probably disqualifies a significant number of shuyukh from being considered a zaahid right off the bat
    Hammad Khan and Surati like this.
  12. Do not be distracted from the Remembrance of Allah and remove the obstacles that hinder this. Treat your stomach like your enemy, make the heart your friend and clean it all the time. Be a mountain when following the Sunnah. Know the Fiqh of every action you perform daily and you will be on your way.
    Surati likes this.
  13. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    I wonder what today’s Zuhd involves and where our focus should be?
    eating healthy and exercising?
  14. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    One day al-Sulamī went to Marw only to find that his teacher Abū Sahl al-Su‘lūkī had replaced his gathering of early-morning Qur’an recitation with a gathering of poetry recitation. Later, Abū Sahl asked: “Abū ‘Abd al-Rah.mān, what do the people say about me?” Al-Sulamī replied:

    “They say, he has replaced the gathering of Qur’an recitation with a gathering of poetry recitation.” Abū Sahl said: “Whoever says to his Shaykh: ‘Why?’ shall never succeed.” Al-Dhahabī comments: “Only if he is infallible; but if the Shaykh is not infallible and yet hates questioning then he shall never succeed. Allāh said [help one another unto righteousness and pious duty] (5:2), [and exhort one another to truth] (103:3), [and exhort one another to pity] (90:17). True, now the murīds are peevish boors, always objecting and never following, talking and not acting – such shall never succeed.”

  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    الدين النصيحة

    good counsel for everyone. pir and murid alike.
  16. Interesting Post

    I think It is too dangerous to do Baya now because most people don't have Real Ijaza to take Baya. I suggest don't take Baya until you have done Istikhara a hundred times and deliberated for a year. The Real People in general will not take Baya from people easily and this is the correct tradition in Tassawuff not the other way around. If one researches for example the Circle of Imam Junayd (RehmatUllah Alaih), it seems evident he only had very few Students who were Themselves Giants but His Initiation process was very difficult and was in stages number around 3 years. This is one of the correct ways to take Baya and bring a person into the Circle of the Tradition which shows how serious it is.

    Then the student. Yes the person taking Baya who thinks he's going to learn miracles and write Taweez and obtain Firasa. That's another story for another day. But the bottom line is simple, you want the medals and Pearls of Real Baya, find a Real Sufi (they won't want to be known fyi) and do the hard graft military style with tests that would move a mountain not from its place to a few feet but lift it off the ground and take it into another continent. Real Baya fyi = no sleep, no food, no talk and no drink for years on end.....so honestly I don't think there needs to be long posts on the subject because most people when they read what it really entails will be really scared.

    The Baya in today's age is a very very diluted form and much of it is not Real Baya at all. Better to practice Zuhd at home yourself behind closed doors.
    abu Hasan and Unbeknown like this.
  17. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    nice summing up sidi.

    However, I think that the lines between a "shaykh" or "pir" and a "mufti" or "scholar" or "aalim sahib" aren't so crisp these days.

    One always implies the other by default - in most cases.

    While we warn against pir-worship and pir-blindness, scholar-worship is not too far behind.

    But how should a layman - who can hardly read properly two pages worth of an ilmi discussion, let alone comprehend it - in any language, go about inoculating themselves against blind-following - when he has literally no other option?

    I think, sh. Asrar presented a really great, and perhaps the only viable solution to this perennial dilemma - that of not blind following the expert on the one hand and, not overstepping one's bound and refusing to accept perfectly valid expert-advice, on the other:

    don't stick to one "expert" - but instead have recourse to at least three or four aalim sahibaan, so that, in issues of contention, you don't have just the walls of the echo-chamber of your own like-minded "group" to talk to.​

    Just as, in dunyawi matters, you consult more than one doctor or lawyer or investment agent, before deciding upon a course of action, so should you, when in doubt and in the grip of a controversy that you do not have enough resources on your own hands, to settle your qualms about, consult multiple sunni scholars, and then decide to accept/reject/believe/act on the one that makes most sense to you and whose proofs - so far as you can gauge - you find to be the strongest.

    Needless to say, this does not mean that you should go shopping for a fatwa that is easiest on your nafs. That is not sincere ittiba of shariah, that's ittiba-e-hawa.

    of-course, like anything in life, it will take time for you to become adept in this art of informed decision making - but it will eventually become second nature. As you grow in age and experience and in your understanding of human nature and the limits of human knowledge and the vital role that circumstances play in the lives of men - scholars included - you will learn to not only appreciate the often imperceptible sources of differences between scholars/groups but also to get along with those you disagree with.

    in an imperfect world, we don't have perfect solutions, but this one, imho, is good enough.

    pro tip: you can always come to sunniport and request feedback on the various options that appear sound to you.

    Allah knows best
    abu Hasan likes this.
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Bay'áh, in tasawwuf, is the pledge of allegiance - when a person gives their hand in the hand of someone accomplished and takes them as their guide on the spiritual path.

    Bay'áh is sunnah. RasulAllah ﷺ would take pledges from sahabah رضي الله عنهم. Therefore, by definition, it is a beneficial practice. There can be no doubt in this. Muslims throughout the ages have given and taken pledges of allegiance in spirituality and the concept of pīr (shaykh) and murīd (disciple) is historical.

    A person only gives allegiance to a shaykh they trust. In many cases, they feel a spiritual, metaphysical connection to the shaykh and like being in his company and learn from him. Thereafter, they take bay'áh with him and he becomes their spiritual guide.

    We live in troubling times. The level of knowledge of even supposedly learned individuals is not always adequate and ignorance is rife. So, in some cases, it becomes a story of the blind leading the blind. If the shaykh himself is a sinner or worse still, misguided; then because of the immense trust a disciple places in the shaykh, the disciple themselves adopt these negative traits. They think: 'if my pīr is doing or saying it, it is correct.'

    But, like we said, pīrs today are often unlearned. They do not possess the requisite criteria for being pīrs in the first place. #Alahazrat Imam Ahmad Rida Baraylawi lays down four basic criteria that a man must possess in order to qualify as a pīr:

    1. Sunni
    2. Not be an open sinner
    3. Be learned enough to find rulings in books
    4. Have an unbroken chain back to RasulAllah ﷺ

    What a murīd must do before anything is to ensure the man he is to take as their pīr satisfies the above.

    We have always tended to highlight the requisite conditions of a pīr but have seldom done so for the murīd.

    What about the murīd themselves? What characteristics must they possess? Before bay'áh, they must:

    1. Learn farđ úlūm (obligatory knowledge). They must know the necessary beliefs of Islam and Ahl al-Sunnah so that if the pīr ever manifests anything contradictory to these, the murīd recognises it.

    2. Not take everything the pīr says as the ultimate truth. The pīr is human and can make errors, knowingly or unknowingly. Let's say a pīr prayed four units of Maghrib instead of three - would the murīd remind him? Of course. Because he is aware that the pīr can err and forget as others do.

    If he falter in units of prayer, he can elsewhere too. Be mindful of this.

    One of the major problems we face today are blind followers who never question any word or deed of their pīr, however wrong it may be. They are like dead people in the hands of the living. As we have mentioned, it is not the age to do this. This would be tantamount to religious suicide.

    The greatest community that has and will ever walk the face of this planet are the companions of RasulAllah ﷺ. Their knowledge, piety, sincerity and gnosis will never be matched. Yet, how did they behave with the very best of them?

    Sayyiduna Umar رضي الله عنه went to Sayyiduna Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه regarding the gathering of the Quran. Although Abu Bakr disagreed at first, Umar urged him to do this. If Umar was a blind follower, this episode wouldn't have transpired.

    And who did he disagree with? The greatest man ever after the prophets. If there was anyone apart from prophets عليهم السلام who ever deserved to be blind followed, it would be Abu Bakr.

    The stories of Umar being questioned about the extra cloth and the dowry are renowned. If their followers were blind, they would never have questioned these matters.

    And what is any pīr today compared to Umar, the leader of the Muslim world?

    Yet most murīds place the pīr on a pedestal so high that they cannot see his most blatant and glaring errors.

    3. Alert the pīr to his errors. When the mistake is discovered, let the pīr know. Do not ignore it. You have given bay'áh in order to be guided. It is defeating the purpose of the object if the pīr himself is committing errors and the murīd knowingly follows him in this.

    Mistakes can range from minor slips such as forgetting a wajib of salah all the way to errors in necessary doctrines.

    4. Be attentive - bay'áh is an ongoing process, not a one off silver bullet. The murīd must not have the mindset that 'I have done my bit by pledging allegiance, now I will switch off and the pīr can take me wherever he wants.'

    Do we ever do this for anything else in life? We don't! We constantly scrutinise people we deal with. We don't even have to look far for a related example to the pīr: the scholar. We don't take everything they say hook, line and sinker even though scholars are more learned than most pīrs. Then why are we like putty in the pīrs hands?

    If a person cannot fulfil these conditions, he must not give bay'áh at the hands of any pīr. He isn't ready.

    Do we not see the flagrant contraventions that pīrs commit before our eyes and murīds do not even flinch? What is all this? It is simply that the murīd wasn't ready to pledge allegiance. He is a blind follower and doesn't possess the capacity to discern truth from falsehood or if he does, he doesn't have the uprightness to state it.

    Have we not seen on these very shores shaykhs:

    - calling others to commit kufr
    - sharing stages with deviants whilst praising them
    - calling for a stop to refutations of deviants
    - denying the superiority of Abu Bakr and Umar

    We have! Yet how many murīds recognised the problem, weren't blind followers, alerted the shaykh and remained vigilant? Very few.

    So assess yourself: am I ready? Do I see wrong and call it out or do I remain indifferent? Do I know the creed of Ahl al-Sunnah well? Do I have a mindset that can see right from wrong? Do I possess the faculty to place sharīáh above all else or am I at risk of blind following?

    Test yourself. How many wrongdoing shaykhs have you left to date?
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021

Share This Page