i know you made your last comments, so i too have no desire to fan any inter-personal flames between us living room mujahideen. i honestly do believe you are a sincere person in your capacity as a Sunni aam aadmi; and it's great if you see where i'm coming from, if not, it's still no biggie. i will just respond to some points you raised and i too will sign off this thread - only to clarify the contexts. you seem to have some contexts mixed up, at least in regards to my posts. --- ok in those charlie hebdo post days, i saw your link and just thought to myself - must be some rotten "intellectuals". intellectuals ki kami nahin ghalib, ek dhoondo hazaar milte hain. i didn't respond because i was merely in agreement with you lashing out at some loonies. i never saw that link to Yasin Akhtar-related news clips. generally speaking, i tune out of urdu or Arabic texts (were those news items in urdu?) unless i'm actively looking for something, and in any case, i rarely look at the side ads. i know you don't think i deliberately did it. i'm just re-assuring you that that was indeed the case. ---- in the case of the western "scholars" (or eastern scholars drooling over the west like jifry) - their openly and unabashedly dancing to the tunes of the bush-blair nexus, the pope-their holy father, and fox news - leaves only very few "probabilities" to be considered. you CAN'T call them hypotheses or assumptions on my part. if you toss a coin, you can only get two outcomes - head or tail. these people's routine gaffes have left very little to the imagination or very little probabilities to consider. in the case of the Bareilly-Mubarakpur story, i personally believe there are great Sunni scholars on both sides, but they're caught up in internal pir politics. it may not be a good thing, but it certainly isn't as bad as dancing to the tunes of western governments, or hindutva agents, or popes, and fox news - UNLESS you or someone else wants to allege that any one side is a puppet of the rss or baba ramdev or something. if one side accuses the other side of something, then they should be held accountable to their own standards. as for credibility and fatwa on UBK, for better or worse, Ashrafiya has issued a documented fatwa on UBK (in favor). it is NOT the best thing they did for their credibility, but at least they have publicized a stance. now if the other side doesn't do the same but rather just mentions it in bayans, it is certainly not healthy for them nor for the awam who follow them. they will hurt their credibility themselves. they can either issue a documented rebuttal of Ashrafiya fatwa or a specific fatwa on UBK by name. anyone can easily tell any of their mureeds "what is the basis for your lashing out at UBK when your own shaykh has refrained from issuing a fatwa on him?". this is only my opinion as a non-entity posting on the forum. i never said that any shaykh is responsible for the actions of mureeds or khulafaa, much less when he isn't even aware of it. of course, anyone is responsible for whatever happens under his watch while he is aware of it. in the case of Bareilly-Mubarakpur, they are two GROUPS not individuals for me at least, the very fact that the conflict exists is an externally verifiable reason to doubt the objectivity of both sides, when it comes to their own internal scuffles or their rulings on each other's affiliated personalities. i can gladly accept their rulings when it's against outsiders like zakir nayak or shias or something. -------- i will post on UBK on the concerned threads soon in sha Allah.