Who we can and can't promote

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Aqdas, Sep 16, 2022.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Let's make up some imaginary people.

    Chaman drinks alcohol publicly.
    Barkaat goes to the local bookies for all to see.
    Munawwar is a known drug dealer.
    Riyaz doesn't pray salah.

    All four imaginary people are committing haram. Chaman and Barkaat are known as Islamic scholars whilst Munawwar and Riyaz are preachers who are close to scholars

    If an authoritative Sunni scholar now shares a stage with any of the four, this sends a message to everyone that the said Sunni scholar is ok with their action and is enabling and legitimising their wrong unless he publicly rebukes that wrong.

    That's the logical conclusion to associating with those who commit public haram.

    Take the fifth imaginary person:

    Tahir, who has friendly dealings with proselytising wahabis.

    This is also haram. A worse haram.

    So it is more severe than the first four.
     
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Slightly related.
     
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Also, who can ulama sit with and which events can they attend?

    I believe there isn't a blanket ruling on this but rather certain conditions and a case by case judgement.

    Take some scenarios:

    1. A Sunni scholar who is clear in his stances is invited by an open deviant to the latter's place. The Sunni scholar won't discuss the issues of contention and won't refute the deviant.

    2. As above except the Sunni scholar will discuss the issues and refute the deviant.

    3. A Sunni scholar is invited by another Sunni but who associates with deviants. The place is of Sunnis and the crowd is Sunni.

    See, I'm sure the rulings differ whether he can attend or not.

    We should judge each case individually based on:

    - who the deviant is
    - who the inviter is and who he associates with
    - if the Sunni scholar refutes that innovation or innovator

    I don't think a Sunni scholar has to leave every single platform just because there is a deviant there or someone who sits with deviants. It just depends.

    We need to discuss this and outline the principles and draw up the guidelines as people too often lean to either extreme.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  4. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Maybe so. However, sheikh sahib has received khilafat from Hashmi Mia and also promotes him.
     
  5. غلام رسول

    غلام رسول Active Member

    If I’m not mistaken Shaykh Asrar is mureed of Sayyid Abbas bin Alawi Al Maliki رحمة اللہ تعالی علیہ.
     
  6. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Well, hasn't Shaykh Asrar done Bayt on the hands of Hashmi Miyan, who surpasses most of the sub continent ulema combined in what the shaykh sees as a derogatory trait?

    One just has to open a few of Hashmi Miya's speeches to see the kind of language he uses.

    Edit mod (Aqdas) Is that oversight on his part whilst taking bayah?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2022
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    We're getting into specific cases now.

    What about at a general level: should ulama refute heresy?
    Should they refute heretics by name?
    Should they refute sulh kullis by name?
    Should they sit with them?
    Should they sit with those who promote them?

    I ask this because that was the basis of the other thread where Shaykh Asrar said we mustn't import Pakistani style refutations to the UK.

    Then what style of refutation does he want, if any?

    If we answer the above questions, we'll get somewhere.

    ---
    I feel, when ulama sit with somebody, it's a validation of that person unless the aalim makes it clear that he considers them a deviant or mistaken, etc.

    It damages the Sunni awaam when an aalim sits with any of the above without making it clear what their mistakes are or that he doesn't consider them mistaken in the first place.

    Take a few examples:

    Shaykh Monawwar is an influential scholar in the UK.

    Would it be ok for him to go and share a stage with Wajid Iqbal, who promotes Shaykh Yaqubi who is silent on Hamza, Nasr and TSQ?

    Would it be ok for him to promote Shaykh Samir Nas who calls for unity between Sunnis and wahabis?
     
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    How did someone deduce from this that I'm exhorting the promotion of minhajis and tafzilis?

    People need to read carefully.
     
  9. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    So we have to define the parameters then of who we can and can't "promote".

    Anyway, what is "promotion"?

    Shaykh Asrar recently mentioned that Shaykh Yaqubi would serve them platters of food. Is this promotion?

    Is promotion anything that refers to anyone positively?

    What if I say, 'Tahir ul has a good habit of bringing his books with him to his lectures.'

    Is that promotion IF my view that Tahir ul is a deviant is well known?

    ---
    So how do we decide when we can stop promoting a Sunni?

    I think we have to categorise issues. This is similar to something I mentioned elsewhere about bidah and muharramāt.

    We also have to discuss guilt by association.

    1. If the person themselves calls towards haram (such as listening to deviants) or sulh kullism, etc, it is safe to say we shouldn't promote them. This is Shaykh Yaqubi.

    2. The person themselves didn't call to haram or sulh kullism but defends the one who did. This is Shaykh Yaseen. Can we promote him?

    3. If the person habitually associates with deviants without making their view clear on that deviance, we shouldn't promote them. This is Pir Munawwar Jamati who goes to Tahir ul.

    I've said habitually because sometimes, as a one off, one may find oneself before a deviant inadvertently, etc.

    4. If the person associates with those who call to haram (such as celebrating Christmas), can we promote them? A lot of ulama go to pirs like Eidgah who do Christmas.

    5. If the person associates with deviants like those who deny the ijma'a on tafdil al-shaykhayn, should we promote them, even if they themselves accept the ijma'a? A lot of ulama still hobnob with people like Zahid Shah and Fazl Ahmad.

    6. If the person associates with people who haven't been declared deviants but hold beliefs such as hulūl. A lot of ulama invite the Aqtabs from Coventry.

    Also JTI and Irfan Shah. Can we still promote JTI?

    7. If the person associates with someone who associates with someone with problematic views? Yes, it's getting long now but how many chains do we go up? A knows B knows C knows D...how far? Sjaad associates with GFH who defends Shaykh Nazim. Can we promote Sjaad? (Putting aside Sjaad declaring Devs as Sunnis).

    ---
    There will be more categories. We need answers to these. Otherwise, people will continue to club all these together under a single category and issue blanket rulings.

    Also, unless we categorise in order of severity, those who shouldn't promote people who belong to more severe categories will cite the associations of those in categories less severe and thereby justify their promotions:

    'I promote Shaykh Yaqubi but what about your scholar who sits with Qari Asim?'
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
    Abdullah Ahmed likes this.

Share This Page