Zubdah at-Tahqiq & Mola Ali RA - Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib

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After looking at the quote in context it actually is addressing some of the concerns Abu Hasan mentioned. Basically the blanket takfir of Wahabis, Deobandis, Shias...and even those Sunnis who they tend to disagree with.

Here are some examples of takfeer of (and lanat on) wahabis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgJE2Fe-wuE&feature=related
(minute 7 onwards).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1426w9LpA9c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEtDNkHFjkg (min 2)

The statement in the book regarding khawarij is mentioned to caution people that they should not hasten to do takfeer on people.

 

You have misunderstood. On page 160 it actually says Fath-ul-Qadeer so what is his issue with that particular statement on page 160? Who needs to do tauba?

Surely Allama Ibn Humam cannot do tauba as he has passed away?

He might have a point so we just need some clarification. Muhammad Ali you can give him a quick sunnitalk phone call and record it.

 

thanks brother aH, I see that you have actually clarified what I wrote this is exactly what I was trying get across.

watch how these people now use this twisted logic and apply it to the case regarding the deobandi four.

they would probably allude that as this is the most heinous of crimes (takfir against Mawla Ali - radiAllahu anhu), yet scholars with-held takfir against the Kharijites.

then they would probably first talk about the words being words of kufr and disregard takfir against the four.

then they would probably try to justify this by quoting a verse from the Quran concerning Abu Lahab. That only his takfir is undisputed and that he certainly died in a state of kufr and as for the others (the insolent four) they with-hold from their takfir as they did not know their state in death.

etc, etc ...

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btw: what I also find very strange is that tahir qadri makes takfir of the kharijites and uses that as well as other reasons for making takfir against those suicide bombers and they applauded him.

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again all this seems rather too salafi styled for me.

 

Brother Chisti-Raza is saying there is a hidden agenda by mufaddila. Just like the "rosha khayal" ninowi rubs cheeks with deobandi wahabis now, within a few months, the new "roshan khayal" yanafi mufaddila might do it too.

After all, it is yanafi that has been shouting top of their voice, reminding us about Sheikh Karam Shah al Azhari, Sheikh Pir Mehr Ali Shah, Dr Tahir ul Qadiri, and anyone who is not ................... B-A-R-E-L-A-W-I.

I think I am having a dejavu. Seems like this discussion has taken place in the past

 

no, I am not hinting at you [Allah forbid]. I will clarify shortly. in sha Allah.

 

Jazak Allah Brother Abu Hasan for your post. Shah Sahib have read the whole book and we will get their views INSHALLAH very soon. Just to add on eveyone knows about the busy schedule of Pir Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib, he doesn't have the time to sit online and read posts on forums. Some members on Yanabi.com are personally attacking Shah Sahib rather than asking Shah Sahib their questions directly! Remember what your Pir said about disrespecting a Syed:

Syed Mazhar Shah Gillani - We Do Not Support Yanabi.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZgDRAgig2o

 

i don't know if you are hinting at me. anyway, takfir against the deobandi four AND those who KNOWINGLY accept their statements will be ruled kafir. because it is ijma'a of the ummah that one who insults the nabiy sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is a kafir.

what is deeply disturbing is the ease with which so-called 'sunnis' call others kafir. alahazrat's maslak is to try to find an excuse to avoid doing takfir and many people today try to find an excuse to MAKE takfir. al-iyadhu billah.

particularly common people who have no idea of the depth and breadth of islamic aqayid/fatawa should keep their mouth shut and refer to a qualified mufti than rushing to call someone a kafir. al-iyadhu billah.

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i have seen some insinuations in the past and that is why i am writing this: as long as there is a remote possibility of ta'wil to avoid takfir, i will continue to abstain from takfir. i do not pray behind wahabis, deobandis, or jamat-e-islami dolts, and keep away from them as much as possible.

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brother chisti's comment above is similar to shah sahib's generalization: that mawla ali gave khawarij these 'facilities'. [see p.160 of zubdah] and then goes on to generalize that thus all khawarij must be the same and no takfir of theirs is possible. what he glosses over is that it was a 'band' of sayyiduna ali's time.

[c-r's comment then is: just as we have tried to withhold from takfir of so many, we will withhold from the insolent four. as i said, i hope he is not pointing to me.]

similarly, the khawarij and the shiah, from whom imam bukhari narrates, are only ahl al-bid'ah (who do not invite to their bid'ah) and are not those with kufri aqayid. one cannot use this example to say that all shiah are therefore exempt from takfir.

interestingly, in ibn humam's ruling, many other things are mentioned which pir sahib has omitted. if i find some time, inshaAllah, i will point out which khawarij he is talking about.

wa's salam.

 

Abu Fazl did Abdul Qadir Shah also fail to read Hanafi Books and ibn Humam regarding Tafzil? Or has he written his Tazili book with research that the Imams didnt have from Google?

 

Ok Muhammad Ali..."in feature"

In this video Irfan Mashaddi Sb asks Jilani Shah Sb to do tauba for what is written on the now rather famous page 160. I am slightly lost though because on that page it clearly references Fath-ul-Qadeer of Imam Ibn Humam, so is his issue with what Imam Ibn Humam said?

Or has he simply not read the passage correctly and delivered his verdict without knowing it's from major Hanafi books? What's the basis?

I do actually agree with Muhammad Ali on this one, we should get a clarification from Mashaddi Sb.

 

ninowi here in North America, already races to rub shoulders with deobandi wahabis. Did not yanafi and walthamstow educate him on that wahabi offshoot? I dont think we can give ninowi husn ad-dhan now.

 

there is an hidden agenda for discussing this in the book. give it another 6-9 months and one will see the result of this. In fact I wouldn't be the least surprised if takfir against the deobandi four will then be with-held.

 

Jazak Allah Brother Abu Hasan for this great reply. This is why we prefer this site over other sites Alhumdulillah. As for Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib and other scholars views, we will get a clear answer from Shah Sahib ver soon. Once again Jazak Allah Brother Abu Hasan!

 

http://www.yanabi.com/index.php?/to...nd-takfiri-mullah/page__p__421384#entry421384

Yanafi on it. They ignore the same books on the Tafdil issue as it doesn't suit them. Qadri Jilani misses that point.

 

what I find strange is that even though this view maybe correct and he quotes scholars who held this view to prove his point, yet he goes against these very same scholars when it comes to the tafdil issue. Fath al-Qadir is explicit that the one who holds Mawla Ali - radiAllahu anhu - to be greater than Sayyiduna Abu Bakr - radiAllahu anhu - is indeed astray. Salafi styled reasoning???

 

brother, the viewpoint that those who do takfir of saHabah are themselves kafir is found in books of fatawa. but at the same time, many senior ulama have abstained from it.

in tatarkhaniyah it is said that 'it is wajib to do takfir of khawarij, as they do takfir of SaHabah'. even ibn taymiyyah, in his al-Sarim al-maslul said this (which is not surprising because, this is the standard madh'hab of ahl al-Hadith: the Hadith scholars)

the said passage of zubdah, p.160 appears to be based on (Allah ta'ala knows best) kamal ibn humam's fat'H al-qadir. ibn abidin, al-haskafi and others have also leaned towards this position. and in fat'H al-qadir, he mentions that the khawarij were doing takfir of mawla ali (not merely insulting him) and yet, he said: 'a righteous principle to achieve an evil objective.'

this issue is not a straightforward one and ibn abidin discusses this in many places: in radd al-muHtar: bab al-imamah, bab al-bughat (the same discussion which culminates in wahabis being khawarij of our time and are under the same ruling as that of bughat - and that we don't do takfir IN SPITE OF THEM doing takfir of muslims).

and in even more detail in his 'tanbih al-wulati wa'l Hukkam' where he cites mulla ali al-qari and others that they disagreed with the passage of al-khulaSa (which is the basis of most other fatawa books that rule takfir of those who insult the sahabah).

in shifa, narrated from saHnun are two opinions: one of takfir (execution) and one of non-takfir (lashing); but many of these arguments are based on dalayil zanniyah and as long there is scope for ta'wil, abstaining from takfir is the safest option as elucidated by ibn abidin.

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my point so far is, that inasmuch as the passage on p.160 is concerned, shah sahib's argument is valid. and even out of the context of this discussion of tafdil, necessary for our times - as many people label wahabis and common tablighis as kafir without batting an eyelid.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

 

Abu Fadl let me make one thing clear, you can keep your poxy advice to yourself. In feature please do not mention me here or on yanabi.com like your Pir Bhai's are. I do not waste my time on blind followers like yourself whoose Pir has attacked Sahaba and the Imams of Ahlus Sunnah. Everyone knows what gos on yanabi.com. Yet again here I have provided videos of top sunni scholars here who refuted Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib. I respect Brother Abu Hasan and his views but we cannot ignore scholars like Shah Sahib. The reason why we share these videos and links here is to inform other sunnis. I do not give any importance to people like yourself so you can rant and moan forever it doesn't bother me!

 

Muhammad Ali I strongly advise that you get a full-time job or instead of wasting your time on youtube and forums you go and study with a scholar, you have a few in your area but whether they take you on or not is a different matter.

 

Pir Syed Irfan Shah Sahib on those who insult Sahaba, are they muslims or not?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDyaX5q6E_k

 

Pir Abdul Qadir Jillani in his Zubdah at-Tahqiq on page 160 has wrote that Khawarij who use to call Mola Ali RA a Kafir (MAZALLAH ASTAGFIRULLAH) Sayiduna Ali RA didn't even call them a kafir and we can't call them kafirs MAZALLAH, here is the link to his book:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/46247616/Zubdah-tu-Tahqiq

Pir Sayyid Irfan Shah Sahib have said to him that he should repent from this including other Sunni Scholars:

Pir Abdul Qadir Must Do Touba On Zubdah at-Tahqiq & Mola Ali RA - Pir Syed Irfan Shah Sahib

Pir Abdul Qadir Exposed on Zubdah at-Tahqiq by Moulana Hafiz Aqeel Jalali

Pir Abdul Qadir Exposed on Zubdah at-Tahqiq by Moulana Fida Hussain Rizvi Sahib