Qur'an on 'Geocentricity' and a 'Flat Earth'

Mohammad Hassan Raza

sunniport user
Assalaamu 'Alaikum

I think the issue of Flat Earth has already been discussed once. But Still I would like to discuss both of them together. I was recently questioned by an atheist who asked me the Position of Qur'an on Geocentricity. I said that it is true! Then he asked me "The whole world today knows that The Sun is the Centre and The Earth revolves around it. Now is it not that your Qur'an has been contradicted?" I was quiet. For at that time I could not answer him.

Can anyone please provide arguments to counter attack him?
 
Mohammad Hassan Raza said:
Assalaamu 'Alaikum

I think the issue of Flat Earth has already been discussed once. But Still I would like to discuss both of them together. I was recently questioned by an atheist who asked me the Position of Qur'an on Geocentricity. I said that it is true! Then he asked me "The whole world today knows that The Sun is the Centre and The Earth revolves around it. Now is it not that your Qur'an has been contradicted?" I was quiet. For at that time I could not answer him.

Can anyone please provide arguments to counter attack him?

Dear brother Hasan,

Where does it say in the Holy Qur'an that the Sun revolves around the Earth or that the Earth is Flat?
 
Brother Hassan, where does Ala Hazrat say the earth is flat?

Your enthusiasm and love is very respectable, but brother please before commenting on things of this sort, make sure you understand the topic from all angles - Quran, hadith, words of scholars, and scientific too.

Otherwise you will just stuff your foot in your mouth and inadvertently cause people to walk away from Maslak-e-Ahle-Sunnat. If you do not have all the bases covered from a knowledge point of view, you're best off not arguing with atheists or anyone and just minding your own business.
 
Mohammad Hassan Raza said:
Dear Brother Aqib

Are you still Unaware of this fact? Have you not Read the Qur'an or at the very least gone through the works of A'ala Hazrat?


Dear brother Hasan,

I did NOT mean to challenge you or anyone or to be sarcastic. So do not hastily reply in a tone, that smacks of audacity or considers others illiterate.

I asked for a specific proof - unqualified wordings - from the Holy Quran. Because an athiest challenged you, by claiming this. Please send me the proof I asked.
 
gone through the works of A'ala Hazrat
i bet if you, and majority here on this forum can even read ala-hazrat's scientific works, i really couldn't. you cannot even make out of one single page, try reading fawz al-mubeen. ala-hazrat did say that earth is stationary and sun revolves around it, BUT this is what he derived from Quranic verses, there is no verse which says verbatim that the sun revolves around the earth. so, sayyiduna ala-hazrat alaihi rahma wa riDwan may or may not be wrong in his research.

science keeps changing its positions, we don't know that after some time in future scientists may claim otherwise, but for now almost everybody believes in what science claims and have evidences for it.
 
Even if science says that the earth rotates on its own axis, there is NOT a single verse of the Holy Quran that this premise DIRECTLY negates.

The verses that say the earth is 'stationery' - come with the added words 'for you'. So it is stationery "for us". We do not sense its movement - I am not debating whether the earth is actually moving or not.

So, in effect, the atheist is WRONG in claiming that the Holy Qur'an says that "sun is revolving around the earth".

As brother Noori pointed out, science may one day come with a different opinion - but the words of Allah will never change. Whether the earth is rotating or the sun revolving around it, the words of the Qur'an are perfectly true in both senses i.e. the earth is stationery 'for us'.

and Allah knows best.
 
@ Brother Abdul Qadir - Brother, If I made a wrong statement I apologise. But please can you clarify about from the Works of The Ulama of Ahl-us-Sunnah that Islam believes in a "Spherical Earth"?

@brother Aqib - I am in no mood of fighting and will never fight with a sincere brother like you. I liked your reason that tomorrow science can contradict itself, and establish a Geocentric Model of The Universe/Solar System.

More inputs will really prove to be helpful.

Jazaa Allahu Khairan
 
Great News!

That Kaafir finally accepted! And the reason that I presented was simply what my brothers here gave. If Science hasn't discovered something yet or is wrong on some point, it does not mean that You can contradict Islam!

One more simple reason. When Thomson's model of Atom was proposed, it was accepted widely, until it was contradicted by Rutherford, who again was contradicted by Niels Bohr. Even today's model has many flaws.!

And He was left speechless.

Sub'haan Allah. Glorified is Allah who Has Created The Entire Universe so perfect!

Thank you All of You!
 
I wish to point out ONE thing here: if the sun is revolving around the earth, it follows that the ENTIRE UNIVERSE is actually revolving around the earth. And Allah is CAPABLE of this.

And ALLAH knows best.
 
I don't have a reference at the moment but I'm 200% sure that Science has discovered that the sun is not stationary but has its own orbit.

Have you heard of the Big Bang Theory? Scientists say that the universe has an age i.e. once upon a time there existed NO UNIVERSE and then the Big Bang occurred and the universe expanded from a point of light in intense motion (Nur-e-Muhammad SallAllahu 'Alayhi Wasallam). But before Atheists had this argument that the universe was always here and will always be here! Science has proved them wrong: the universe was not always here and will not always be here. Also research the Big Crunch - the universe has been expanding since Big Bang but Big Crunch is coming where Unniverse will be no more.

The booklet "Foundations of Faith" by Hazrat Molana Dr. Fazlur Rahman Ansari al-Qadri R.A. is an absolute MUST READ book (it destroys the fallacies of Atheism): http://fazlurrahmanansari.org/media/foundations of faith.pdf

Also see:
Through Science and philosophy to religion by Hazrat Molana Dr. Fazlur Rahman Ansari al-Qadri R.A.: http://fazlurrahmanansari.org/media/Through Science and philosophy to religion.pdf
 
yes, science has proven that the sun is moving (in a somewhat straight line). the qur'an says in multiple places that the sun is moving "in its orbit" and also says "towards its destination"
 
@ brother Abdul Mustafa and brother Aqib. Jazaak Allahu Khairan

Very great. I downloaded both the books. Yes regarding the orbit of the sun, it is quite clearly established that it is not the stationary, but moving. And it does have an orbit.
 
As brother Noori pointed out, science may one day come with a different opinion - but the words of Allah will never change. Whether the earth is rotating or the sun revolving around it, the words of the Qur'an are perfectly true in both senses i.e. the earth is stationery 'for us'.

scientists are turning their own models on their heads. very interesting read - and a slap in the face of atheists.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160901-we-might-live-in-a-computer-program-but-it-may-not-matter
 
Is this a Qat'i Aqeedah?
Rotation of sun around the earth
Rotation of earth itself

Ala Hazrat said it does not rotate. And sun rotates around it.
 
Hamza Yusuf gives credibility to the geo centric model. He says the Mauritanian scholars he studies with held this view. Reason I mention is that those who have an inferiority regarding Ala Hazrat usually end up accepting this view as valid if Hamza said it.

 
yes, science has proven that the sun is moving (in a somewhat straight line). the qur'an says in multiple places that the sun is moving "in its orbit" and also says "towards its destination"

It is very interesting that you have stated 'towards its destination' as the flat earth theorists say the following:

Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity doesn't exist or at least exists in a greatly diminished form than is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). This constant acceleration causes what you think of as gravity. Imagine sitting in a car that never stops speeding up. You will be forever pushed into your seat. The earth works much the same way. It is constantly accelerating upwards being pushed by a universal accelerator (UA) known as dark energy or aetheric wind.

There are also other theories of flat earth thought that maintain that the earth sits on an infinite plane, with the sun moving overhead. Gravity works much like it does in a round-earth model, and the earth will never form into a sphere because the plane is endless.


The earth being PUSHED by dark energy, up to a 'destination'? Fascinating
 
It is very interesting that you have stated 'towards its destination' as the flat earth theorists say the following:

وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِي لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ
And the sun runs its course for its final destination; this is a command of the Almighty, the All Knowing. (Surah Ya-seen verse 38)

لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ ۚ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ
It is not for the sun to catch up with the moon, nor does the night surpass the day; and each one of them floats in its orbit. (Surah Ya-seen verse 40)

Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity doesn't exist or at least exists in a greatly diminished form than is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). This constant acceleration causes what you think of as gravity. Imagine sitting in a car that never stops speeding up. You will be forever pushed into your seat. The earth works much the same way. It is constantly accelerating upwards being pushed by a universal accelerator (UA) known as dark energy or aetheric wind.

There are also other theories of flat earth thought that maintain that the earth sits on an infinite plane, with the sun moving overhead. Gravity works much like it does in a round-earth model, and the earth will never form into a sphere because the plane is endless.


The earth being PUSHED by dark energy, up to a 'destination'? Fascinating

I don't understand why people still insist that the earth is FLAT. When all other planets, the Sun and the moon are visibly spherical, is it so hard to believe that the earth is spherical too? This is notwithstanding the photographic and other scientific evidence already in place.
 
Salam e masnun
The following posts are from a najdi site:

https://islamqa.info/en/118698

More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:

Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.

He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)

He (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about two men who disputed about the nature of heaven and earth: were they both round bodies? One of them said that they were, but the other denied that and said there is no basis for that. What is the correct view?

He replied:

The heavens are round, according to the Muslim scholars. More than one of the scholars and Muslim leaders narrated that the Muslims are unanimously agreed on that, such as Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi, one of the leading figures among the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad, who wrote approximately four hundred books. Consensus on this point was also narrated by Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm and Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi. The scholars narrated that with well-known chains of narration (isnaads) from the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, and they quoted that from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. They discussed that in detail with orally-transmitted evidence. There is also mathematical evidence to that effect, and I do not know of anyone among the well-known Muslim scholars who denied that, apart from a few of those who engaged in arguments who, when they debated with the astrologers denied it for the sake of argument and said: It may be square or hexagonal and so on. They did not deny that it could be round, but they said that the opposite of that was possible. I do not know of anyone who said that it is not round – with any certainty – apart from some ignorant people to whom no one pays any attention.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (6/586)

Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Evidence for the earth being round:

Abu Muhammad said: We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round. They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round. … and he quoted evidence to that effect.

End quote from al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)

The evidence that the earth is round includes the following:

Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”

[az-Zumar 39:5].

Ibn Hazm and others quoted this verse as evidence.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views.

The evidence of the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”

[az-Zumar 39:5].

The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round, because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.

With regard to real-life evidence, this has been proven. If a man were to fly from Jeddah, for example, heading west, he would come back to Jeddah from the east, if he flew in a straight line. This is something concerning which no one differs.

With regard to the words of the scholars, they stated that if a man died in the west at sunset, and another died in the west at sunset, and there was some distance between them, the one who died in the west at sunset would inherit from the one who died in the east at sunset, if he was one of his heirs. This indicates that the earth is round, because if the earth were flat, sunset in all regions would occur at the same time. Once this is established, no one can deny it. This is not contradicted by the verses in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?

And at the heaven, how it is raised?

And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?

And at the earth, how it is spread out?”

[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20]

Because the Earth is huge and its curvature cannot be seen from a short distance, it appears to be spread out and one cannot see anything that would make one fear living on it, but this does not contradict the fact that it is round, because it is very big. However they say that it is not evenly round; rather it is indented or pushed in at the north and south poles. Hence they say that it is egg-shaped.

End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb

Thus it is known that the Earth is round, and that is not contradicted by the fact that it is like an egg. Rather the false view is that which claims that it is flat, as the Church used to believe and for that reason used to curse and burn those scientists who said that it was round.

See: al-‘Almaaniyyah: Nash’atuha wa Tatawwuruha (1/130)

***

https://islamqa.info/en/211655

211655: Reconciling between the view that the Earth is round and the verse “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19]
Could you please explain these Quranic verse. Actually one Non Muslim asked me to explain these verses.
Quran 71:19 And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).
Quran 78:6 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, What does it mean ?
Quran 15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
Does it mean that Earth is flat? Tafsir Jalalayn says that EARTH is flat. But it is against Established Science.

Firstly:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the earth is round, but to human eyes it appears to be flat, because it is very big and its roundness or curvature cannot be seen at close distances. So the one who stands and looks sees it as flat, but when viewed as a whole, in reality it is round.

Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote.

See also the answers to questions no. 201530 and 118698

Secondly:

The verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19] indicates that it is spread out and shaped so that people can feel settled in it and be able to live and prosper in it. Ibn Katheer said:

That is, He spread it out, prepared it, made it stable and made it firm by means of the mountains.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/247

Similarly, the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “Have We not made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6] means that it is spread out and prepared for you and for your benefit, so that you can cultivate it, build dwellings in it and travel through it.

Ibn Katheer said:

That is, it is prepared for people in such a way that they can live in it, and it is firm, stable and steady.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/307

And the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion” [al-Hijr 15:19] means We spread it out and placed firm mountains therein. This is like the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains and rivers” [ar-Ra‘d 13:3].

There is no contradiction between saying that it is round and saying that it was spread out, because in fact in its totality it is round, but to the one who stands on it and looks at it, it appears flat, as it appears to everyone.

Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

If it is said: Do the words “And the earth We spread out” indicate that it is flat?

We would respond: Yes, because the earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the mountains as pegs” [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.

End quote from Tafseer ar-Raazi, 19/131

Shaykh ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

If the scholars of Islam affirm that the earth is round, then what would they say about the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?

And at the heaven, how it is raised?

And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?

And at the earth, how it is spread out?”

[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20].

Their response will be the same as their response concerning the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86] – that is, as it appears to be in the eye of the beholder, because the sun sets on one country, but remains up in the sky for another, until it rises from the east on the following morning. So the earth looks flat in every region or part of it, because of its immense size.

This does not contradict its real shape, because we may see a very high mountain, but if we climb it and reach its summit we may find a flat surface there, and find an entire nation living there, and some of the people there may not know anything about the rest of the world, and so on. End quote.

Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 8/428

Shaykh Rafee‘ ad-Deen ibn Waliyullah ad-Dahlawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his book at-Takmeel:

Some may understand words such as “made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6], “He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] and “…how it is spread out…” [al-Ghaashiyah 88: 20] as meaning that it is flat, whereas the scholars affirm that it is round on the basis of sound evidence, so it is thought that there is a conflict. That may be refuted by the fact that the visible part of it (for a person standing on it) appears flat, because the larger a circle is, the more spread out it is, so we may say that it is flat on the basis of that part of it that is visible to us, and it is round in its totality, on the basis of rational thinking.

Quoted from him by Siddeeq Hasan Khan in his tafseer, Fath al-Bayaan, 15/208
 
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