Usul Al-Hadith: Texts

abu Hasan said:
just to refresh: the question was about musTalaH texts in urdu/arabic by subcontinent ulama. my point was, that looking specifically for texts by subcontinent ulama is not necessary unless you are looking for a translation or a non-arabic language; and if it is arabic, there are a number of works on usul-hadith written by experts [who happen to be arab ulama, which is beside the point] and published and available. specialist texts shall be in arabic and anyone trying to move up to the intermediate level should be able to read arabic.

i hope you are not asking us to forget ibn Hajar and zarkashi and read dissertations of graduates in ashrafiyah or nayimiyah? and these dissertations that you talk about: are these independent of the usul literature that we have? regardless, i would like to know the new developments in uSul; for example, is there a new condition to categorise a hadith as SaHiH? and do we recalibrate all the Hadith based on latest research?


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apologies for the blunt statement, but critical thinking is going south nowadays.
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Assumptions assumptions and more assumptions. As states at the very beginning; sometimes its good not to over read things. The initial request referred to sub-continent Ulema and their works due to my ignorance of their works and personal attachment as the aforementioned luminaries are from our grand teachers. Works of the Arab researchers like Muhammad Awwama and Dr. Nur Al- Din are widely available. No need to ask about their works.

As for the latter waffle then in brief, no. But new research does save a student much effort. Reading, for example, Muhammad Awwama's work on how differences in hadith methodology have affected differences in fiqh, would save us the time of checking hundreds of usul books.

This new research is not independent of established usul. The same way Al Hadi Al Kaf is not independent of established, classical usul. And no this new research won't offer a new condition for the tashih of a hadith; the same way Al Hadi Al Kaf won't suffice in doing tashih bil kashf. Nonetheless, it's an amazing work and any student would like to obtain a copy. What's your point? Maybe instead of speaking to everyone based on assumption, you could have helped out a student by simply listing a few books with some links. Allah reward you though.

There is much to be learned from waffles too. Just add beans and you'll have breakfast.
 
kattarsunni said:
Shame some 'Sufi's' attack Shaykh Nur alDin Itr and slander him behind his back, saying he is not a real scholar etc.
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These kind of problems always exist. We have some "students of knowledge," and some "fuqaha," who have taken it upon themselves to endorse luzum alBuyut thus not attending Jama'a yet they meet up with others for tea and biscuits. The lack of Sufi Fuqaha is very clear. Allah increase us in our submission to Him, His Habib and the Inheritors.
 
Shaykh Abdul Ghani Nablusi, Allah have mercy on him, has a fatwa on this called 'Takmil alNu'ut'.

However, the application of this fatwa was explained to us in Mishkat Sharif lesson by Maulana Asrar (teacher to a few), that this applies only when the congregational prayer is disliked.

Shaykh Abdul Ghani says in 'Nihayatul Murad fi Sharh Hadiyat ibn alImad' "This (congregational prayer being necessary) is only when the congregational prayer is not disliked. As for congregational prayer in which it is disliked to follow, like the congregation of one who opposes the school, or those who leave adhan and the iqama in accordance with the Sunnah by stretching the words, or the congregation of an Imam who is a transgressor or ignoramus, then there is no dislike in leaving (such a congregation) and praying on ones own, as this is the predominant in our time. There is no might and power except with Allah!"

So if this was predominant in the time of Shaykh Abdul Ghani's time in Damascus, at a time when the Ulama were stronger, then what is the situation today, and especially in the UK where ignorance is concentrated?? Something for us to discuss.
 
I find it very difficult to believe that a learned and qualified scholar would endorse such a view for the reasons give below:
1. The passage of Shaykh Abd Al Ghani is from his commentary on Hadiya ibn Al-‘Ammad entitled Nihaya Al-Murad; a text which is not from the source texts, commentaries nor fatawa of the school. Nor is Luzum Al-Buyut mentioned therein.
2. Luzum Al-Buyut does not mean leaving the congregation only. It means not leaving the house at all, as explained by Al-Nabalusi in his epistle. Abandoning the congregation but meeting up for tea and biscuits is not Luzum Al-Buyut. Missing the congregation at 4pm but coming to study a dars at 4.30pm IS NOT LUZUM AL-BUYUT. What you have attributed to Shaykh Asrar as an explanation of Luzum Al-Buyut contradicts the very concept as described by Al-Nabalusi. The Shaykh would not make mistakes like this.
3. Sayyidi Imam Ahmad Rida Khan (Imam of many) says: "That individual, who does not recognise the people of his time and does not take into consideration their states, for fatwa, is an ignoramus," (Al-Fatawa: Vol. 12, pg. 214). Merely taking Al-Nabalusi’s statement “as this is the predominant in our time,” and assuming that our time must be worse does not suffice in giving fatwa.
4. Khalifa e Ala Hazrat, Mufti Deedar Ali Shah says in his fatawa:
"If, the Imam is such a transgressor that you cannot get rid of him nor can you find another place to pray with a pious Imam, then to pray behind the transgressor is better than leaving the congregation. Additionally, to abandon the congregation is a greater sin than praying behind a transgressor,” (Fatawa Deedaria: Pg. 124)
5. Only a Mufti can pass a fatwa; No mufti in our times has endorsed this view. With all respect to the noble Shaykh, he is not a mufti.
6. You words suggest we don’t have to pray in congregation.
7. Shaykh Asrar’s Shaykh, his eminence Shaykh Ilyas Attar Al-Qadiri includes praying in congregation in his Madani Ina’mat. They do Imamat courses; if he and the QUALIFIED muftis endorsed Luzum Al-Buyut, such courses would not exist.
8. Praying nawafil in congregation is disliked yet our LIVING MUFTIS encourage people to come and pray these in congregation to get people off the streets. Yet apparently Shaykh Asrar, a respecter of the Ulema, is telling people to leave the wajib congregation?

You being the Shaykh's student should verify this with him and other attendees of the dars of Mishkat. Please do not attribute utter nonsense to Ulema for validation purposes.
 
Imam Al-Nabalusi says in the aforementioned epistle (which is not a fatwa; read it carefully): "From those who mainteined luzum Al-Buyut is the Hanafi jusrist Ibrahim ibn Rustam... Al-Ma'mun offered him the post of Judge (Qadi) which he refused and returned to his house."

Then, in the same work, about Imam Muhammad b. Yusuf Shams Al-Din Al-Hanafi he says: "He would not leave his house for congregation or Friday prayers." A little contemplation will show how the concept of Luzum Al-Buyut in this epistle is very different to what you have presented as the correct application and understating of it. The context and cotext (the first chapter in fact!) suggest fitan as the cause for this seclusion and not the fiqh reasons you attributed to Shaykh Asrar. It is as though, you have not read the book.
 
We have some "students of knowledge," and some "fuqaha," who have taken it upon themselves to endorse luzum alBuyut thus not attending Jama'a yet they meet up with others for tea and biscuits.
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No, there is a clear misunderstanding, as I thought you are are referring to those who miss the congregation based on the fact that the congregation is invalid. Not that you are referring to isolation from society.

If anyone is missing prayer due to the fact that he claims he is in isolation, then that is wrong, if the prayer in congregation is according to the Prophetic way. And then if such a person meets others unnecessarily, then he is wrong. But I do not of any one claims such.

Yet apparently Shaykh Asrar, a respecter of the Ulema, is telling people to leave the wajib congregation?
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No he does not, and I have not claimed that he does. He ordered the attendees to pray in congregation and if they still feel the Imam is unfit (which some of the Dawat e Islami brothers did) to repeat their prayer.
 
kattarsunni said:
Shaykh Abdul Ghani Nablusi, Allah have mercy on him, has a fatwa on this called 'Takmil alNu'ut'.

However, the application of this fatwa was explained...
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How did you then misunderstand Luzum Al-Buyut to mean missing an invalid congregation?

You may not know students like that but I know Shaykhs like that. Is it wise to tell lay people this? As you expounded, times are bad. We don't need to worsen them by telling people to miss the congregation. If the Imam's tajwid is better than the followers, the followers prayer is valid. And if you say our Imams cant give proper Adhaan or recite properly, imagine the lay people. So their prayer is valid anyway. No need to tell them to miss Jama'ah.

Due to anomalies like this, we should just stick to the Muftis of our time.
 
A little contemplation will show how the concept of Luzum Al-Buyut in this epistle is very different to what you have presented as the correct application and understating of it. The context and cotext (the first chapter in fact!)
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I suggest you move onto the other chapter, which is entitled 'alRukhsah fi I'tizal Aimmatil Fitnah fil Masajid'. 'Chapter on Avoiding Imams of Tribulation in the Masajid.' On page sixteen, at the bottom paragraph and onwards.

He even mentions Ulama who missed prayer in Masjid Haram in Makkah because of tribulation. Now even Shaykh Abdul Ghani's fatwa on congregation is that of obligation, but if the conditions are not met then that obligation is dropped. In times of tribulation, where the Imams are corrupt, the leeway for people to leave praying behind transgressors is there.

But a very important point to note in the application of this verdict is that a person who notices the Imams tajwid is not good or the Imam does not pray according to the sunnah is more learned than that Imam in the prayer. Such a person is the one who will avoid praying behind someone who will invalidate his prayer.
But this equally applies for other social meetings and gatherings.

I do not think there is a 'faqih' who claims isolation, has tea and biscuits with people, and then misses congregational prayers that are valid.

Due to anomalies like this, we should just stick to the Muftis of our time.
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It would be appreciated if a fatwa from a living Mufti were placed on line.

BarakAllahu feek.
 
Sister Amatullah you said you was in the HSBT Library.

The masjid takes Lottery money can you pray namaz in jamat at Ombersley Road or in Alum Rock with Bal as trustee?

Can you ask Mufti Yaar, Mufti Niaz Sain, Shaykh Fiaz Sain or one of the living Muftis in the Dars e Nizami Faculty as it seems you are a student if you was in the library with you being a sister

JazakAllah
 
kattarsunni said:
I suggest you move onto the other chapter, which is entitled 'alRukhsah fi I'tizal Aimmatil Fitnah fil Masajid'. 'Chapter on Avoiding Imams of Tribulation in the Masajid.' On page sixteen, at the bottom paragraph and onwards.

He even mentions Ulama who missed prayer in Masjid Haram in Makkah because of tribulation. Now even Shaykh Abdul Ghani's fatwa on congregation is that of obligation, but if the conditions are not met then that obligation is dropped. In times of tribulation, where the Imams are corrupt, the leeway for people to leave praying behind transgressors is there.

But a very important point to note in the application of this verdict is that a person who notices the Imams tajwid is not good or the Imam does not pray according to the sunnah is more learned than that Imam in the prayer. Such a person is the one who will avoid praying behind someone who will invalidate his prayer.
But this equally applies for other social meetings and gatherings.

I do not think there is a 'faqih' who claims isolation, has tea and biscuits with people, and then misses congregational prayers that are valid.


It would be appreciated if a fatwa from a living Mufti were placed on line.

BarakAllahu feek.
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In the same way no Sufi backbites or slanders; an oxymoron with emphasis on the MORON.

Even in the last chapter, the Imam discusses a state when the people and Imams are involved in Kaba'ir and even explicit kufr. There is no mention of the 'noteworthy,' point which you keep reiterating. This is your own explanation of the applicability of the fatwa; something which no living mufti has endorsed. Additionally, you have taken an excerpt from Nihaya Al-Murad and tried correlating it with the text on Luzum Al-Buyut.

Further to this, the discussion was on Luzum Al-Buyut, and not missing jama'ah for a valid reason. One can miss Jama'ah for a valid reason and yet not be practicing Luzum Al-Buyut.

I do know some 'fuqaha,' who miss the Jama'ah and have tea and cakes: You don't. That's fine. I'll contact a student of Shaykh Asrar who probably took better notes of that specific dars.
 
Ghulam said:
Sister Amatullah you said you was in the HSBT Library.
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No I didn't

Ghulam said:
The masjid takes Lottery money can you pray namaz in jamat at Ombersley Road or in Alum Rock with Bal as trustee?
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Allah knows best. Contact a mufti

Ghulam said:
Can you ask Mufti Yaar, Mufti Niaz Sain, Shaykh Fiaz Sain or one of the living Muftis in the Dars e Nizami Faculty as it seems you are a student if you was in the library with you being a sister
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Converse error/Affirmation of the consequent.
 
In the same way no Sufi backbites or slanders; an oxymoron with emphasis on the MORON.
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I'll over look your insults as you are a woman (I have just noticed from Brother Ghulam).

I'll make my post even easier for you to understand.

I wrote earlier:

No, there is a clear misunderstanding, as I thought you are are referring to those who miss the congregation based on the fact that the congregation is invalid. Not that you are referring to isolation from society.

If anyone is missing prayer due to the fact that he claims he is in isolation, then that is wrong, if the prayer in congregation is according to the Prophetic way. And then if such a person meets others unnecessarily, then he is wrong. But I do not of any one claims such.
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Now I'll make my post more easier for the deficient in a'ql (naqisat ala'ql):

Prayer in congregation is still sunnah even if a person is practicing 'luzum albayt'. But Shaykh Abdul Ghani gives a different chapter to show even attending the congregation is dropped in tribulation. And he believed it was rampant in his time.
Then the conditions of the obligatory congregation being dropped are given in the passage which I initially quoted.
Shaykh Abdul Ghani says in 'Nihayatul Murad fi Sharh Hadiyat ibn alImad' "This (congregational prayer being necessary) is only when the congregational prayer is not disliked. As for congregational prayer in which it is disliked to follow, like the congregation of one who opposes the school, or those who leave adhan and the iqama in accordance with the Sunnah by stretching the words, or the congregation of an Imam who is a transgressor or ignoramus, then there is no dislike in leaving (such a congregation) and praying on ones own, as this is the predominant in our time. There is no might and power except with Allah!"
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Now that's why I highlighted the 'our time' passage in the above quote.

So if tribulation has not reached the level it had in the time of the Shaykh then the sunniya of the congregation still applies, even if someone is doing 'luzum albayt'. The conditions of the sunniya applying are those same conditions which are not met in times of tribulation.

But you have nothing to worry about as congregation is not necessary on women.
 
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Why have the latest posts by Ghulam and Kattarsunni, in which they demonstrated their lack of ghayra, been deleted? These two individuals spoke in such a disgusting manner about women; something they nor anyone else would describe their mothers and sisters with. You have control over the forum but not the Angels who record every deed.

Is this how the students of Shaykh Asrar behave? You attend Mishkat but clearly: In through one ear and out the other. The words of the Best of Mankind (Upon him the most perfect prayers and salutations) come to mind:

"When you feel no shame, then do whatever you wish." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)
 
All reliability and credibility has just gone out the window. Allah knows best how many times some important matters may have been listed but then deleted for whatever agenda.
 
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