Shaykh Yaqoubi RIS 2013

Khadimu786 said:

with respect, I don't see how, in AQ's posts, he has made ANY valid point against either Habib 'Ali, or Sh Ya'qubi. Most of it vague and does not present any clear objection from a shari'a perspective.

When valid points are brought up they are simply dismissed. The Dante issue is not something that simply disappears. It is not vague. It is a serious issue from a 'shari'a perspective'.
 
Salaam

Yasser Rashid said:
First of all Who gives a toss about you wanting to discuss what you wanna discuss.
You seem to diss this forum and its people time and again. Well my friend in my area they'd tell you to "do one" and in others "trap".

So much for pulling the emotional card out, brother. Couldn't care less about your area.

Yasser Rashid said:
Also why would my being Shaykh Asrars brother aid me in answering my own questions? Is he Shaykh Yaqoubis PA?

Er no. Because I'm told that Yasser brother of Asrar, took bay'ah with the Sh Ya'qubi and attends gatherings of the murids at Woodlands Rd.

Yasser Rashid said:
Third, what has it to do with the price of fish if I'm Asrars brother?

Not much. But it has a LOT to do with how this thread has been diverted by you.

Yasser Rashid said:
Don't divert the issue. Why? Because if Shaykh Yaqoubi did retract his ijaza from Hamaza Yusuf (in which he's praised him highly not to be dismissed) and at least had spoken against him the way he spoke against Hasoun I suppose the likes of AQ wouldn't dare mention Sh Yaqoubis luxurious lifestyle- which really isn't any of our bizzwax.

...but you still had to mention it (the luxurious lifestyle) - it says a lot about you. AQ didn't actually say that, and I didn't infer that from what he said.

Yasser Rashid said:
The reason I believe- as I've clearly said previously!- AQ and ilk express such behaviour is because you and your ilk can't answer simple questions/ objections!

Your belief is completely illogical.

Yasser Rashid said:
Then maybe we can meet and fruitfully discuss one day the psychological issues the likes of AQ may be suffering and the socio/political factors which most likely act as major contributing factors to.

Are you saying AQ has psychological issues which leads him to slander the ulema without any basis?
 
It would be nice if we all could stick to the core-issue(s) about which this thread is. And NO I do not disrespect Shaykh Sayyid al-Yaqoubi (hafizahullah), infact I have a good opinion about him. But some seemingly valid objections are made here. It would be good if those could be tackled.
 
Again. A fine example of diversion and "emotional reasoning" is kuadimu's chosen way.

1. By me telling you to go away doesn't mean I'm being emotional. Why? Because the 'core issues' as mentioned by others here you're not tackling at all and mentioning luxury yourself. After several attempts in pre conceiving you to be sincere I realised I was wrong and that you're not in fact as sincere (and important of course) as I thought. So having realised how I've wasted my time discussing with you I'm bound to get a little emotional. Am I not? I am human brother.
Therefore I've resorted to telling you to get a life, so to speak.

2."Yasser brother of Asrar", as you're told, did NOT give bay'ah to Sh Yaqoubi.
It was something Yasser chooses to call "bay'ah of baraka". (As for how seriously or lightly people in the West take bay'ah per se, that's an issue for a different thread)

3. Again, what has my brotherly status got to do with diverting this thread? Are you somehow implying that Sh Asrars a usual troublemaker and by the possibility of me being his brother shows why I'm also a troublemaker?

Because in your eyes Ive diverted this thread (from shallow conversation regarding the wealth of scholars) to an actual issue (ijaza of HY)

Heavy implications indeed. Again you're being vague and cunning in your "emotional reasoning". In fact this is quite interesting because I'm starting to guess who you really may be.

4 the luxurious lifestyle point you've just blagged. You've previously said yourself when I tried diverting the issue to HYs ijaza point:

"I am here to question AQ's accusation that Habib 'Ali and Sayyid Abul Huda are in his words "all scholars for dollars, and their lust for money and fame needs to be publicly exposed and disgraced."

End of quote

Now who's mentioned luxury first? You or me?

5. I don't think it's illogical to say AQs disrespectful because you don't (can't) answer core questions. Why? Because I'm certainly sure AQ didn't set out from the beginning by mentioning their luxurious lifestyles.

So again you're beating around the bush.

6. Who's allowed AQ to slander due to mental issues? Come on man! Why are you twisting things and putting words in my mouth?!

So the proofs in the pudding. You've proven yourself to be sheerly lacking in any logical thought or constructive criticism. Either you're a good liar or you suffer from memory lapses and seem to disagree at times with your own previous thoughts. Or youre simply mad yourself. I must leave it as that since I don't see you worthy of response any longer.
 
Salaam

Yasser Rashid said:
1. By me telling you to go away doesn't mean I'm being emotional. Why? Because the 'core issues' as mentioned by others here you're not tackling at all and mentioning luxury yourself. After several attempts in pre conceiving you to be sincere I realised I was wrong and that you're not in fact as sincere (and important of course) as I thought. So having realised how I've wasted my time discussing with you I'm bound to get a little emotional. Am I not? I am human brother.
Therefore I've resorted to telling you to get a life, so to speak.

The thread started with Wadood's points about non Zabiha meat at RIS, and sharing a platform with scholars who are not Sunni. AQ then made some points which need to be answered. Clearly it doesn't matter to you people if ulema are attacked without basis. You can talk about your core issues all day. I'm not here to discuss issues already addressed like Dante. A blog was made, adopting orthodoxy, and a retraction was made, which you people clearly haven't accepted, in which case, why was the blog taken down?

Yasser Rashid said:
2."Yasser brother of Asrar", as you're told, did NOT give bay'ah to Sh Yaqoubi.
It was something Yasser chooses to call "bay'ah of baraka". (As for how seriously or lightly people in the West take bay'ah per se, that's an issue for a different thread)

Right, so we've established that you're Mawlana Asrar's brother. So you should be able to answer many if not all of your own questions you are asking me. You know the murids of Sh Ya'qubi as well as me so why are are you wasting your time here and not approaching them directly. They are in "your area" and you would be at the front of the gatherings with them. Yes that's right, at the front.


Yasser Rashid said:
3. Again, what has my brotherly status got to do with diverting this thread? Are you somehow implying that Sh Asrars a usual troublemaker and by the possibility of me being his brother shows why I'm also a troublemaker?

No not all. I'm just connecting the dots. I actually have great respect for Mawlana Asrar.


Yasser Rashid said:
4 the luxurious lifestyle point you've just blagged. You've previously said yourself when I tried diverting the issue to HYs ijaza point:

"I am here to question AQ's accusation that Habib 'Ali and Sayyid Abul Huda are in his words "all scholars for dollars, and their lust for money and fame needs to be publicly exposed and disgraced."

So exactly does AQ's comments which I have quoted equate to you mentioning Sh Ya'qubi's supposedly luxurious lifestyle? No blag, you stated it, for all to see. I have nothing to be ashamed of here, it is you and AQ that should be examining their writings and what side of the scales they will go on.


Yasser Rashid said:
6. Who's allowed AQ to slander due to mental issues? Come on man! Why are you twisting things and putting words in my mouth?!

So the proofs in the pudding. You've proven yourself to be sheerly lacking in any logical thought or constructive criticism. Either you're a good liar or you suffer from memory lapses and seem to disagree at times with your own previous thoughts. Or youre simply mad yourself. I must leave it as that since I don't see you worthy of response any longer.


This is what you wrote

"Then maybe we can meet and fruitfully discuss one day the psychological issues the likes of AQ may be suffering and the socio/political factors which most likely act as major contributing factors to."

So what do you mean by psychological issues????? They are your words not mine.

If I understand correctly, you're trying to imply that somehow murids of the Shaykh are responsible for AQ's comments, and they are responsible for the vile words which AQ utters because they fall short in questioning their own Shaykh? Sorry bro, AQ is responsible for his own words. And if you're defending him, and attacking me, you play a part in it.

Wasalaam
 
I wasn't going to respond. But since I found your reasoning more annoying than your name I deem it necessary to respond, and continue responding till you accept your wrong.

1. If the thread started with wadoods mentioning sharing platform with innovators, do you at least agree with wadoods first point regarding Sh Yaqoubi sharing platform with Zahir and Nasr among others?
If you don't agree then go read what classical scholars have had to say regarding sharing platform with such people.

If you do agree then why don't you be a man and stop crying over spilt milk. Like I've said before I've warned the likes of AQ criticising in the manner they do. So your point is superfluous. I haven't in any post inaugurated using bad manners against any scholar. So re check your facts buddy. Why? Because this thread is not yours nor is it AQs. It's wadoods. So why don't you just succinctly answer his points? Many people have already criticised AQ already, as well as ghulam and others. All my previous posts are filled with condemning their bad manners and nothing other than that. Go check. I don't run the Islamic state so I can't hang em mate!

2. The reason why adopting orthodoxy was taken down, again, is besides the point. Which retraction did HY make that you're referring to? Again you're not being precise.

3. You keep mentioning me along the lines of "you people" and I've also told you before I'm not associated with any cult as you probably are. I'm a Sunni Muslim and base my Islamic principles on the works of Imam Nawawi and Imam Ibn Hajar et al. So please don't apply "guilt by association". It's simply wrong and immoral to do so.

4. How on earth did you infer that I'm the actual Yasser who's Asrars brother?! I simply mentioned something which all of Yassers buddies may easily know about him. For your information im possibly another Yasser Rashid on the planet. Again you've jumped to rash conclusions and committed the fallacy of "guilt by association". That's immoral. You're being desperate in trying to find out whose brother I maybe. That's uncalled for

5. You mention me knowing the murids. The fact is as I've already stated the murids don't and can't answer jack all. They're brainwashed cult members "sidi". Don't act like you're born yesterday. You mention that I know you and that I ought to approach you directly. No where did I say I know you. I said I "probably" know you. But since you're adamant to meet me I have no problem. So that means in your next post you'll tell me who you are.

Will you?

6. You mention you're connecting the dots. Now since you seem to be good at connecting the dots can't you connect the dots between my mentioning HYs ijaza on this forum in relation to the Dante forum which STILL expects a furnished explanation.
As for the great respect you hold for Sh Asrar I can tell from the tone of expression.

7. Luxurious lifestyle and scholars for dollars lust for money and fame can be synonymous terms in this context. I've clearly mentioned I don't care about Sh Yaqoubis wealth or anyone else's so why are you jumping to conclusions again sidi?

8. I didn't once accuse AQ of being mental. I clearly stated a "possibility". I said "maybe" which in fact denotes a low chance. There's a possible chance for any of us suffering psychological issues for that matter. So don't jump the gun.

In conclusion don't divert your deep seated issues to AQ or even my previous suggestion regarding HYs ijaza. I'll be nice to you and provide a chance of answering the actual concern of this very thread which Wadoods first post was aimed towards.

Since you're unable to tackle HYs ijaza STILL being up, since you claim me and/or AQ are diverting this thread why don't you answer a relevant question. Namely:

What do you make of Sh Yaqoubi sharing platform with Ahl al Bid'ah?
 
I'm not here to discuss issues already addressed like Dante. A blog was made, adopting orthodoxy, and a retraction was made, which you people clearly haven't accepted, in which case, why was the blog taken down?
Hamza Yusuf did NOT retract the Dante comments.

The blog is NOT down. Its gone private. http://adoptingorthodoxy.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/adopting-orthodoxy-2/

So my former question remains as Hamza Yousef did NOT retract.

What is your view on Hamza Yusuf's defense of Dante as he has not retracted?

Has he retracted his views on this?:

“One of the things our Abrahamic Traditions suffer from is exclusivism. Many of the people who adhere to Abrahamic teachings whether they be Jews, Christians or Muslims, tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth, and monopoly on the truth as far as any real Abrahamic traditions would say would be God’s alone.”


http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=10135

Khadimu has been going on about Hamza Yusuf is Sunni and expects us to be sheep and just accept it hook, line and sinker.

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=9180

Quote:

Shaykh Sayyid Muhammad al-Yaqoubi said Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is Ahl al-Sunna. Don't listen to Wadood, he needs help.
 
Hamza Yusef said:

“I’ve been in my share of exclusivist tradition, when I first became Muslim that was the type of Islam I was introduced to… when you begin to look at the nuances of our traditions you find is that they are deeply compatible at those most basic fundamental levels as they are teaching universal truths, and they would not resonate in the millions of hearts if that were not true.”
Where has Hamza Yusef retracted these erroneous beliefs? He hasn't. And he cannot be accepted as orthodox 'just because my Pir said it'. That attitude is for people like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4C6Zf1CaDo
 
the very cause for AQ's bad manners.

people who propagate bid3ah and zandaqah don't deserve pleasantries. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal for example, did not permit responding to the salam of a mubtadi3. the ahlul bid3ah deserve the harshest of our treatment.

-----------

as for khadimu:

I'm not here to discuss matters which you and others on this forum have already made their mind up about.

yet you expect me or anyone else to entertain your tantrums - on matters or personalities you or others like you have already made your minds up about!!!!!!!!

AQ - please provide proof for the above. Amman statements, teaching Dante, calling coptics holy brothers etc etc etc.... all irrelevant here, as much as one may disagree with those things.

brilliant! core matters of Muslim 3aqidah, definition and identity are 'irrelevant' and just matters of disagreement as simple as where should one place the hands in salah. yes, when deen itself becomes irrelevant to the likes of you, then indeed, you win, and i have nothing to refute you.

i was good-mannered enough to engage with you, by saying genuinely and honestly:

how about we start with you just listing 3 good reasons of why you think ali jifry is a great wali, and i will list why i think the opposite, we then give reasons for that

if you want to engage with me any further in any meaningful discussion, i ask that you please play fair.

unless and until you do this simple thing as i asked for you, i won't bother with you. you can throw as many attacks of bad-manners at me as you want, but that's about it, and it won't bother me in the least.
 
khadimu786 said:
A blog was made, adopting orthodoxy, and a retraction was made, which you people clearly haven't accepted

this is disturbing indeed. you are brushing the thing off as though HY insulted a fellow colleague and then apologized for losing his temper. this is the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu'alayhiwasallam) we are talking about!

so small talk about the person of rasulAllah (peace be upon him) no longer creates strong sentiments in people's hearts?! now anyone can say what he likes and then furnish a so-called retraction, which is in fact a thinly veiled contemptuous sneer at the opponents. and then his blind-followers are up in arms if anyone dares say a word against him!

you get offended if a Sayyid is spoken lightly of but not if the personality of the very source of a sayyid's honor is! not to mention Sayyiduna Ali (radhiAllahuanhu) was belittled too!

what if brother AQ had said:

"I think Sayyid XYZ will be in the lowest depths of hell fire ... and his intestines will be floating around....."

will you be content if he merely said that you didn't understand him?

------------------------------------

a few posts back you were admonishing AQ to worry about his akhirah. well, you have an akhirah too, remember?
 
I've been watching this thread closely, khadimu you have been playing emotional tactics. You didn't answer to any of the direct questions of wadood, AQ, KS, and YR. We deeply respect shyskh al-Yaqubi, had deep respect for habib ali and untill now we only have doubts due to his signing common word. None of these scolars, you, or us are infallable and unquestionable. If Sayyiduna Umar Farooq raDiAllahu ành can bequestioned by those lesser than him in ranks, then why not anybody else. My request to kadimu is to leave all the personal attacks, deriding aside and answer to the direct question if you are realy sincere. If you are not here to answer plain questions, and you don't feel that by jumping into this thread you've taken this responsibily then kindly keep quiet. I see that genuine questions were asked and they shuold be delath with honesty.
 
Brother Aqdas I understand you've encountered a problematic passage in Sh Nazims book. And again you have a valid reason to object to it. But with all due respect let us deal with this issue first and then we may thoroughly concentrate on Sh Nazims clear errors.

Why? Because the likes of Khadimu are what we'd call in Mirpuri: chalaak. Why would he go on so reckless and confident till he's been cornered and questioned regarding prime issues. Lo and behold, he disappears!

Khadimu where are you gone? We all await your decisive critique. Hope you're still alive. Amin!

Mind you I wouldn't wish for any Muslim to die in a state of denial and uncertainty.

Aqdas and Abu Hassan, you guys run the show here so I request that if Khadimu doesn't respond promptly you take his posts next time with a pinch of salt by capping anything he posts on miscellaneous polemics.
Why?
Because he ain't got stamina to debate. So he wastes all of our reading and writing time.

The same goes for any of his chalaak buddies who ought to be on sellout forums such as "deen"port.

Why should they apply "nakhra" in banning any kind of controversial discussion which is ja'iz on their respective forums, whereas you lot allow the very same charlatans to post nilly willy here?

Yes. And that goes for posting advertisements for their events. Why can't Ismail Ray, who chooses to come on here with his real name, at least answer our objections?

The answers are obvious. One answer is: because Mr Rai and crew want to keep us naive Sunnis sweet and happy till they've used us good and proper. Like a used sponge.

Shame on you guys!

If you want to say, based on bad supposition (su al zann- a principle which is a must for you Sufis) that I'm possibly Sh Asrars younger brother from which you infer he's motivated me to post on here as such, then I tell you clearly that Sh Asrar advises me to NOT post on internets forums. To which I told him if these people can't discuss face to face and label Sh Asrar and a handful of students "takfiri" for asking valid questions, then I see it necessary to start posting.

Besides even if I was Sh Asrars brother (which I don't see any reason yet to disclose whether I am or not) it doesn't in anyway corroborate his criticisms. Being someone's brother doesn't mean one must agree on everything.

Read Surah Baqara and you'll see how family relationships are baseless when it comes to ones Iman.

This is not about "us" vs "you". It's about: 'yaa ayyuhalladhina aamanu udkhuloo fissilmi kaaffah".
 
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I re iterate, the above questions need answering. You may dismiss some of the posts as 'emotional', but the questions remain.

The question as I posted above:

What is your view on Hamza Yusuf's defense of Dante as he has not retracted?

Has he retracted his views on this?:

“One of the things our Abrahamic Traditions suffer from is exclusivism. Many of the people who adhere to Abrahamic teachings whether they be Jews, Christians or Muslims, tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth, and monopoly on the truth as far as any real Abrahamic traditions would say would be God’s alone.”
Or this:

“I’ve been in my share of exclusivist tradition, when I first became Muslim that was the type of Islam I was introduced to… when you begin to look at the nuances of our traditions you find is that they are deeply compatible at those most basic fundamental levels as they are teaching universal truths, and they would not resonate in the millions of hearts if that were not true.”

And as Unbeknown has posted:

this is disturbing indeed. you are brushing the thing off as though HY insulted a fellow colleague and then apologized for losing his temper. this is the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu'alayhiwasallam) we are talking about!
If you fail to answer correctly you have proven the following:

You 'people' are downplaying serious insults and issues relating to usul aldin.

You take insults to your Pir more serious than insults to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wasallam. You would never associate with anyone who insults your Pir even if they retract, yet Hamza is a 'faqih', a 'wali' and 'general of Imam Mahdi' (the last quote according to Aftab Malik that Shaykh Yaqoubi said this)

Your little group is more important than the principles of ahlu Sunnat waljama'at.
 
The statements made by some preachers seem very confused. This particular Syrian cleric's statements are to be rejected and are incorrect. Like was quoted in another thread:

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=10845&page=2

@37 min 'Muslim protesters carried the cross in honour of the Christians who joined their protests.'
@38-39 'Even George Sabra was elected in the previous election for the SNC as a chairman. We don't mind it. We would vote for him.'

Over 200,000 people have died in this conflict. This cleric mentioned Dr Booti as a government stooge, but in hindsight Dr Booti was more experienced and his foresight and was ahead of this particular cleric. He claims to have objected to Dr Booti from the 80's.

He states Dr Booti done the worst damage to Sunni Islam. Would he say the same about his buddy Hamza Yusuf?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQO7a2q252M


This is a cleric who called for a failed coup against a brutal dictator only to call for unity with Christians and 'Democracy':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qbOrSrEHP4&list=UU4AHmdSYSVfuQdLmtJieL1w

Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi - A Joint Muslim-Christian Commitment

This individual has strange views. He believes we must put our hands with Jews, Christians and Buddhists to save humanity. @20 minutes and 20 seconds.

@9.30 He claims that Sunni scholars of Syria agreed not to call anyone to Islam. Not to call non Muslims to Islam!!

He calls for not mentioning theological issues in public gatherings, and this answers anyone's queries as to why this particular cleric does not delve in to theological debate. He will avoid any thorny theological issues.

He does seem to be sufi cult leader and a confused politician. He mentions Dr Suad elHakim with whom he is lecturing with. He states @16 minutes 40 seconds onward 'I was honoured to sit next to Dr Sai'd alHakim...' This is that professor:

http://vimeo.com/14793605

One of those esoteric pseudo sufi claimants this Dr Suad elHakim.
 
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