Ghaws o Raza

subhanAllah! Ghaus e azam dastageer only lacked prophethood otherwise he had all the attributes and qualities.
 
Nawazuddin said:
Ghaus e azam dastageer only lacked prophethood otherwise he had all the attributes and qualities.
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I have heard Ulema dis-allowing such statements. It gives the impression that prophet-hood is a possibility.
 
Nawazuddin said:
subhanAllah! Ghaus e azam dastageer only lacked prophethood otherwise he had all the attributes and qualities.
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Mujaddid A'azam radi Allahu Ta'ala 'anhu says:
Uluhiyyat hi Ahmad ne nah paie, Nubuwwat hi se tu 'aatil hai ya Ghaws!
Sall Allahu 'alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam wa radi Allahu Ta'ala 'anhu

What are you trying to imply
 
I am not trying to imply anything. I believe it. I actually say the same for Imam Ali(a): nubuwwat hi se tu `aatil hai Ya Ali!
 
nawaz's statement seems highly problematic considering that there has been a lot of talk among the scholars as to the best interpretation of the hadith:
ulamau ummati kal anmbiyai bani-israel.

besides sayyidi alaHazrat has also said:

phele sahabiyyat hui phir taabaiyyat
aage qadiri manzil hai ya Gauth

and Nubuwwat hi se tu 'aatil hai ya Ghaws! does not translate to: "he had all the attributes and qualities" of prophethood. otherwise Uluhiyyat hi Ahmad ne nah paie will translate to?

Allah knows best.
 
and it also opens doors to make absurd claims - e.g. "imam Mehdi is superior to some prophets" - may Allah protect us from all sorts of deviancy.
 
In order to understand the context of Imam Ahl us Sunnah radi Allahu Ta'ala 'anhu you must read the whole manqabat and keep it in context.

Also read the two verses before the one that I quoted.
 
actually, there are hadith concerning saHabah such as sayyiduna `umar raDiyallahu `anhu: "if there would have been a prophet after me, `umar would have been one."

in a weak hadith: "if i were not sent, umar would have been sent [as prophet]" (that is, prior to me. because in any case, RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is the seal of all prophets. even if the hadith were SaHiH, it would mean, hypothetically, if RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam had not YET arrived 1488+ years ago, umar raDiyallahu anhu would have been a prophet and THEREAFTER RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam would be sent as the final prophet.* wAllahu a'alam)

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and a similar SaHiH narration in praise of mawla `ali: "you are with me, similar to harun's station with musa; except that there is no prophet after me." (alayhima as-salam)"

this is in SaHiH muslim, 2404 [see ikmal of qadi iyad, 7/411] manaqib sayyiduna ali. not related here, but there radd of shiah, rafidah and tafzilis who use this to claim that mawla ali's haqq for khilafah was foremost. qaDi iyaD points out that sayyiduna harun `alayhi's salam was made khalifah (given charge of protecting the community in his absence, 7:142) in the lifetime of sayyiduna musa `alayhi's salam and that he passed away 40 years before sayyiduna musa `alayhi's salam. this comparison in the hadith was made when sayyiduna ali raDiyallahu anhu was given charge of protecting the community when RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam proceeded to the battle of tabuk.

---
ulamau ummati kal anmbiyai bani-israel.
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in maqaSid al-Hasanah of imam sakhawi, #702:
"our shaykh and those before him such as damiri and zarkashi have said: "this narration is baseless" and others have added: "this is not found in any reliable book".
​
however, the hadith: "scholars are heirs of prophets - al-ulama warathatu al-anbiya'a" is found in musnad ahmed, abu dawud, tirmidhi, and other books.

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nubuwwat hi se tu `aatil hai ya ghawth
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means "you have everything except prophethood" and obviously that means every attribute that is necessary for prophethood, or specific to prophets alone is absent in non-prophets. for example, ismat. indeed, this is obvious, but lovers of the tahir probably love such bleedingly obvious statements.**

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Allah ta'ala knows best.




*extrapolated from qaDi iyad's commentary on "la nabiyya ba'adi".

**see this at 2.04 mark; there are other stupid remarks, but my point is about the obvious, similar to this (see p104 and 105).
 

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Just an observation. There is a difference of authentication between the two hadith.


"if there would have been a prophet after me, `umar would have been one."
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This hadith is Hasan and has the reporter mishrah ibn ha'aan in it and there is a discussion about it from both angles. However, atmost, it is hasan.




`ali: "you are with me, similar to harun's station with musa; except that there is no prophet after me." (alayhima as-salam)"
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whereas this hadith is mutawatir and is reported by more than twenty sahaba and declared mutawatir.
 
Just an observation. There is a difference of authentication between the two hadith.
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what is the result of such an observation?

that the hypothetical case of mawla `ali being a prophet [if the seal of prophets sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam had not come] is far stronger than the hypothetical case of sayyiduna `umar being one (raDiyallahu `anhuma) and hence, mawla `ali is superior to sayyiduna `umar?

do you mean that if more SaHabah advocate something, it is a stronger proof? or if a majority advocates something, it has more weight?
 
what is the result of such an observation?
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Textually one is certain and the other is speculative. A case of superiority can only be made from that which is definite. In fadilah, we may even present a weak hadith but for afdaliyyah one needs a certain text because it also negates x for others and for negation of x from others, one needs a certain text. Therefore, one is admissible to construe an argument for afdaliyyah and the other is not.
 
Qasim Hanafi Ridwi said:
Please take this discussion elsewhere.
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Brother qasim, only a few days ago you were showing the scanned copies of al-hawi of al-suyuti concerning the same issue. what has brought this change of heart? dorangi?
 
Mere Ahmad Raza ya’ani mere Mawla kahe Mawla,
Mere Pyaare Nabi ka laadla Baghdaad ka Dulha.

sall Allahu 'alaihi wa Aalihi wasallam wa radi Allahu Ta'ala 'anhu


Shaykh Sayyid Muhammad Ayyub al Rizwi al Qadri rahimahullahu Ta’ala
 
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