about amir e dawat e islami

[AbdalQadir]

Where on earth did I say anyone is a non sunni? Can you please stop Putting words in my mouth? If you want to remove yourself from Sunniyat then do it but as for me, I ain't removed anyone and I don't intend to either.

very well. what EXACTLY is your problem with DI or SDI then?

can you please sum it up in one sentence?

----

regarding me, just for the record, i am equally supportive of all Sunni organizations, and acknowledge the fact that they have ikhtilaf on certain masail, regardless of whose murids they are or which groups they are tied to.

as for shaykhs, i have my own list of which shaykhs i trust, in these times, and it includes Mawlana Ilyas as well as other shaykhs who oppose him on certain issues.

You're picking on the ulema who try to stay away from TV, videos and photos to the highest extent possible to mawlana ilyas who sits there on madani channel, crying and rolling about and going in wajd.

the way you talk is utterly disgusting and reeks of jealousy towards Shaykh Ilyas and DI because of their connection with the masses. sorry, but with that comment, it looks to me that it is you who is behaving cultishly

PLUS, you're making it sound like Madani Channel is a porn channel of some sort airing khurafaat and what not, wal 3eyadhu billah

that is ONE channel which does not have any women, or host any commercial adverts, or any qawwali, or support for any deviants, or any heresies

for better or worse, people in these times are heavily tied to the media, and DI has given Muslims a model of how to use the media to their benefit!

they have practically proven that DESPITE THESE TIMES it is NOT necessary at all to host adverts, or have women anchors, or show any khurafaat to employ the media for the benefit of Muslims - EVEN .001%

utterly disgusting - the way you talk.

Taking photos sporadically and coming on video 24/7 are the same thing. I salute your analogy my friend.

chori char aane ki aur sawa laakh ki ek baraabar

on the one hand you have Ridawi scholars who declined to go for Hajj, a pillar of Islam, only because it would involve taking pictures

on the other hand it's a "necessity" to travel to various countries and give lectures.

Allah forbid that someone considers it a necessity considering the state of the world in these times, to employ the media to reach out to the common man!

Only because before, you could get special permission and there was ways around going and travelling without photos.

i don't know what exactly Allama Arshad said but the way you put it is very disingenuous and crafty

even in Mufti A3zdham's or Shaykh Ataullah's time 'you' (as in the average common person or even a reputable mawlana) couldn't get 'special permission'.

Mufti A3zdham's case was a one off in the history of india, considering his standing with the Muslim masses and indira gandhi wanting to score a favorable point with the Muslims

so please don't make it look like in those days getting a permission for a photo-less passport was just a case of going through some red tape!

'those times' are not very far and many of us have lived and seen those times

Oh yeah, Mawlana ilyas said himself that don't move away from ala hazrat even in fiqh matters otherwise one day, you will end up questioning Hussam al haramayn. Does that still stand or have times Changed and this no longer applicable? Answer would be nice

you don't remove anyone from Sunniyat, yet your sarcasm is utterly disgusting and mind-boggling. you should be ashamed of yourself.

Hussam ul Haramayn is about iman & kufr, something not concerned with the changes in electronics technology with loudspeakers, or programming in joomla.

1) what Mawlana Ilyas said, is perfect for the average desi Hanafi on the street

2) again you make it sound like DI is getting its kicks from opposing Ala Hazrat at any chance they can get! utterly disgusting to the core.

if any organization in these times has raised awareness in the masses of Ala Hazrat and his works and his manhaj, it is DI

a lot of the others are good only for rabble rousing and not actually teaching the deen to people

3) you are catching on to that like a literalist wahabi. that line doesn't mean that Islam or Sunniyat is all confined to Fatawa Ridawiyya.

Mawlana Ilyas has Shafi3i mureeds too. how much of Fatawa Ridawiyya can they follow?

and even within Hanafis, if there is a fiqh matter not addressed by Ala Hazrat or addressed, but the times and circumstances have changed beyond recognition, then a qualified mufti can diverge where there is a need, based on the principles of Hanafi fiqh.

it's great you know about the fan masala. you would be probably also knowing about Ala Hazrat's ruling on girls going to schools?

are fatawa something meant just for books and to talk about intellectually over coffee or meant to be for practical application for people in their daily lives in their current times and circumstances?

what is the state of the "average" Ridawi in these times and sending his girls to schools?

what about so many Ridawi mawlanas and their girls going to schools?

how many families of many senior Ridawi mureeds can you name who do not have a TV in their homes? i won't even bother with common people like you or me.

deen is practical, real life my friend, not just something trapped in fatwa books with no connection to reality!

anyway, i only came back to this thread because i found some comments on this page simply beyond ludicrous.

i will start another thread in the Hanafi fiqh section which hopefully should be a lot more objective.

 

[AbdalQadir]

what is the state of the "average" Ridawi in these times and sending his girls to schools?

what about so many Ridawi mawlanas and their girls going to schools?

i should add that we all know these times for what they are as opposed to Ala Hazrat's times.

if anything, in these times, considering the fitnahs, we might as well do good to even issue a fatwa against boys being sent to schools!

 

[IslamIsTheTruth]

AbdalQadir can I ask you why you have deliberately omitted the title of mufti, shaykh or even Moulana when mentioning Taajush Sharia' Mufti Akhtar Raza and Allamah Sayyid shah Turabul Haq?
I see you have addressed Moulana Ilyas with Moulana and Sheikh everytime you mentioned him but didn't bother referring to the above mentioned shayukh as Moulana's or Sheikhs.
I know the above mentioned shayukh address themselves without any titles due their humbleness but to see people like me and you mentioning them just by their names seems very disrespectful.
If anyone deserves the title of Sheikh then I believe the above two individuals do.

 

[IslamIsTheTruth]

p.s the reason I used Moulana Ilyas as an example was due to the fact you mentioned him a handful of times.

 

[AbdalQadir]

AbdalQadir can I ask you why you have deliberately omitted the title of mufti, shaykh or even Moulana when mentioning Taajush Sharia' Mufti Akhtar Raza and Allamah Sayyid shah Turabul Haq?

i haven't deliberately omitted.

it's just in the flow of writing.

for eg., i in my humble opinion consider Shaykh Akhtar Raza Sahib as a greater scholar than Syed Irfan Shah Mashadi Sahib, yet in post # 15, i say "Shaykh" for Irfan Shah Mashadi Sahib and only say "Sahib" for Akhtar Raza Sahib

i am not too big on big titles and full names. i just state as much of the name as is popularly known, along with a respectful salutation before or after, like Shah Turabul Haq Sahib or Shaykh Akhtar Raza or Mawlana Ilyas etc.

people like me and you mentioning them just by their names seems very disrespectful.

i don't know how good your Urdu is, but adding a "Sahib" after the name is similar to adding "sir" in english before the name.

hasha lillah, i especially consider all three of the shuyukh you mentioned to be awliyaa and myself beneath the dirt under their shoes.

i don't add the routine Hanafi Qadiri Barkaati Damat Barakatuhumul 3aliya or the lengthy descriptive titles and the desi over-the-top-ness with titles gets to me at times.

i believe great people are known lesser by words and more by their works. the awam remembers them by their popularized names/titles - Imam Bukhari, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Ghazali, Ghawth-e-A3zdham, Ala Hazrat, Mufti A3zdham Hind (incidentally i didn't add a "Shaykh" in front of his name too, because he is popularly known as Mufti A3zdham Hind to this day)

if you noticed i also wrote rahimahullah only for Muftu A3zdham Hind, and not Shaykh Ataullah Bandalwi. astaghfirullah, it might have been mentioned only once, but of course it was implied for both shuyukh.

when you type fast, you type fast.

hope my 3udhr is digestible.

 

[Unbeknown]

i am not too big on big titles and full names.

i don't add the routine Hanafi Qadiri Barkaati Damat Barakatuhumul 3aliya or the lengthy descriptive titles and the desi over-the-top-ness with titles gets to me at times.

i believe great people are known lesser by words and more by their works.

hear, hear!

----------
on a different note, you do seem to have an unusually soft spot for mawlana ilyas - don't ask me to prove it. go through the thread with a critical eye and see if you don't agree with me. if not then just forget what I said.

if anything, in these times, considering the fitnahs, we might as well do good to even issue a fatwa against boys being sent to schools!

you have my vote for this one

-----------

these juvenile ridawis.

but of-course you are a wise old man as ever uncle wadood.

--------

my apologies to all for opening the pandora's box.

wassalaam.

 

[AbdalQadir]

you do seem to have an unusually soft spot for mawlana ilyas

obviously.

this thread is about him and his org.

see the rest of my posts on the forum and then say if i have any bias.

for the record - within desi Sunnis - i consider Shah Turabul Haq Sahib, Akhtar Raza Sahib, Ilyas Qadri Sahib, and Kaukab Noorani Okarvi Sahib as equals in knowledge and/or excellence in delivering Sunniyat to the masses - and use all of their deeni opinions in my own life should i have any issues within desi Sunni opinions -

among others and whom i may or may not know or whose opinions i may or may not know so well.

-------

incidentally, you also only picked on my real or perceived extra-soft spot for Mawlana Ilyas (not a crime), but you ignored 'Talib-e-Ilm's sinister and snide remarks at Mawlana Ilyas and DI (very bad and disrespectful).

any particular reason?

-------

in any case my soft or hard spots for anyone don't stand for a thing. i suggest you state openly, objectively, and academically what exactly your problem is with DI and SDI?

 

[AashiqueeRasool]

for the record - within desi Sunnis - i consider Shah Turabul Haq Sahib, Akhtar Raza Sahib, Ilyas Qadri Sahib, and Kaukab Noorani Okarvi Sahib as equals in knowledge and/or excellence in delivering Sunniyat to the masses - and use all of their deeni opinions in my own life should i have any issues within desi Sunni opinions -

lol brothers, do you really think, a person like AQ who makes this statement is worthy of communicating with?

 

[AashiqueeRasool]

in any case my soft or hard spots for anyone don't stand for a thing. i suggest you state openly, objectively, and academically what exactly your problem is with DI and SDI?

If people state what the issue is with DI or SDI to you, can you please explain what this will accomplish? What actions will you take to remedy this?

 

[AbdalQadir]

If people state what the issue is with DI or SDI to you, can you please explain what this will accomplish?

deen is naseeha

if they are organizations of heresy or evil or sinful actions, it is incumbent upon you to warn people about them

so please! do your duty as a Muslim and state what EXACTLY is wrong with these organizations.

What actions will you take to remedy this?

don't know. i'm a man of little to no influence.

assuming they are the evil shaytans that you probably think they are:

maybe all i will be able to achieve will be to just distance myself from them and safeguard my akhirah.

maybe if Allah gives me power and tawfiq, i will have them banned.

assuming they are good organizations based on Sunniyat and taqwa:

maybe all i can achieve is just get some fayz from them personally

if Allah gives me power and tawfiq, i can promote them and support them with all my might

---

i find it particularly amusing that you communicated with me

 

[Unbeknown]

for the record - within desi Sunnis - i consider Shah Turabul Haq Sahib, Akhtar Raza Sahib, Ilyas Qadri Sahib, and Kaukab Noorani Okarvi Sahib as equals in knowledge

I had a hunch for sometime and you just proved it. You really shouldn't have made such a statement.

apparently, you have know very little about these personalities and you seem not to have watched a single madani muzakarah!

Or perhaps the oft-repeated line of: "ikeeswi sadi ki azeem ilmi aur roohani shaksiyat " has worked its magic on you.

this time I cannot disagree with you more!

 

[AbdalQadir]

I had a hunch for sometime and you just proved it. You really shouldn't have made such a statement.

you can have as many hunches as much as you want. no skin off my back. i speak for myself and fwiw, candidly. unless i uttered a kufr or heresy or abused you, don't tell me what i can or can't say!

apparently, you have know very little about these personalities and you seem not to have watched a single madani muzakarah!

i can say the same for you and all the boys sitting in the uk, telling people in india and pakistan how to run the show there!

i have seen enough madani muzakarahs

Or perhaps the oft-repeated line of: "ikeeswi sadi ki azeem ilmi aur roohani shaksiyat " has worked its magic on you.

maybe, or maybe just someone's rabble rousing or envy got the better of you!

this time I cannot disagree with you more!

unlike some people, i do not expect the entire world to agree with me on every single thing and have no designs on making the entire world conform to what i believe to be right (within Islam).

i believe in heterodoxy within Ahlus Sunnah and that it's a mercy.

you probably believe that if someone doesn't narrow-mindedly follow some shaykh to the very last dot, he is an icon of evil or stupidity.

-------

i wonder why you didn't reply to these parts of my post:

and/or excellence in delivering Sunniyat to the masses

the sad reality for you is that for DI, this line cannot be negated for the life of you.

... and these parts:

incidentally, you also only picked on my real or perceived extra-soft spot for Mawlana Ilyas (not a crime), but you ignored 'Talib-e-Ilm's sinister and snide remarks at Mawlana Ilyas and DI (very bad and disrespectful).

any particular reason?

-------

in any case my soft or hard spots for anyone don't stand for a thing. i suggest you state openly, objectively, and academically what exactly your problem is with DI and SDI?

yes you did mention some points of tasawwuf in previous posts, but other than that, all you've been doing is bickering over soft spots and hard spots and who loves who how much and why.

or why no one has commented on this part from post # 21

it's great you know about the fan masala. you would be probably also knowing about Ala Hazrat's ruling on girls going to schools?

are fatawa something meant just for books and to talk about intellectually over coffee or meant to be for practical application for people in their daily lives in their current times and circumstances?

what is the state of the "average" Ridawi in these times and sending his girls to schools?

what about so many Ridawi mawlanas and their girls going to schools?

how many families of many senior Ridawi mureeds can you name who do not have a TV in their homes? i won't even bother with common people like you or me.

just so you know, Shah Turabul Haq Sahib is ON RECORD for saying that despite Ala Hazrat's fatwa against sending girls to schools, for these times, we have to give a fatwa of jawaz because many times desi boys don't like to marry a girl unless she's been through college and about the life in these times and so on. why hasn't anyone picked up on this but madani channel for life in these times is such an eyesore to people?

how many senior Ridawis in india do you want me to name who have TV's in their homes... despite Mufti A3zdham's fatwa and their own fatawa against the devil box?

seriously, this is an embarrassment.

where we should be expending our energies on combating the fitnah of the likes of tahir, the tafdilis, and others, it causes you people greater grief why DI or Mawlana Ilyas are revered by some Sunnis!

utterly shameful.

 

[Unbeknown]

i suggest you state openly, objectively, and academically what exactly your problem is with DI and SDI?

so that you can brush them aside once again as minor mistakes in fiqh and tasawwuf?

just to give you an example, i had said:

then you have mawlana ilyas stating that he is not sure that Shaykh Fariduddeen Attar is a wali-Allah and then saying 'I take back my words in which I called him a wali because no one, to the best of my knowledge, has said that he is a wali!'

and you said in your other post:

his associates can have husn az-zdhann of him and consider him a wali-e-kamil. as long as you don't see a person violating the Shari3ah, nothing stops you from have a zdhann that he is a wali

so husn az-zdhann is reserved for mawlana ilyas alone?

then, see this

i've had arguments with DI brothers on this issue of narrating dreams and karamaat and those for it, say that it is a way of instilling targheeb towards Sunniyat among those people who don't know better.

did you ever care to notice how many times the targheeb is toward mawlana ilyas rather than sunniyat? you can keep looking the other way if you like.

and then this one:

the absolute obedience they talk about is not in the sense of Shar3i fard or wajib as far as i know. it's the way they believe their organization can help Sunniyat in current times.

I referred you to alahadhrat's fatwa but you came up with the above excuse. then what, i ask you, was the point of alahadhrat making so many distinctions ? is not obvious that no one is above the shariah? what then is the point of mentioning it as an adab of a shaykh-e-murabbih?

------------
why are you giving us a choice between either wali/scholar or gumrah/shaytan? is it not possible that he he is neither?

i still stick with what I've said earlier:

I know that all this could have some innocent interpretations and I don't want to destroy my akhira by insisting that the people I talked about above are dunyadaar or bigoted. at any rate, all of them are loads better than poor myself.

I reiterate - it is quite possible that Mawlana Ilyas Qadri is a born wali or that he was granted wilayah without a shaykh's tarbiyyah. If that is truly the case then I have nothing against him - how could I?

I assure you that I do not secretly wish the organization any ill, I only wish that they rectify what shortcomings they have - for its better to nip errors in the bud.

but I break my word. I need to stop now.

If I have hurt you please accept my sincere apologies.

but please note that sometimes your words become too much for people to take them lying down.

i must learn to practice hilm.

Allah knows best.

wassalaam.

 

[AbdalQadir]

ps. i posted back on this thread only so that people don't think i deliberately disrespect some shuyukh, or else i have no desire vindicating myself on an online forum.

i seriously suggest you start a new thread about any real of perceived issues you have with DI or SDI or any other shaykh or group and keep childish comments ('you have a hard spot for him but a soft spot for him', 'he called him a Shaykh and him a Mawlana' type of comments) and useless bickering out of it and focus on the main issues that you feel harm or benefit Sunniyat.

was salam.

 

[Unbeknown]

you are not letting me end this.

don't tell me what i can or can't say!

not in the world. please calm down.

maybe, or maybe just someone's rabble rousing or envy got the better of you!

then please pray for me that I see the truth as it is.

unlike some people, i do not expect the entire world to agree with me on every single thing and have no designs on making the entire world conform to what i believe to be right (within Islam).

good for you. that way you can have peace of mind.

i believe in heterodoxy within Ahlus Sunnah and that it's a mercy.

me too.

you probably believe that if someone doesn't narrow-mindedly follow some shaykh to the very last dot, he is an icon of evil or stupidity.

no I don't. there are more words in my dictionary apart from 'evil, stupid, shaytan and gumarh'.

-------

i wonder why you didn't reply to these parts of my post:

the sad reality for you is that for DI, this line cannot be negated for the life of you.

why should I counter things that I have already agreed to?

... and these parts:

I am already trying to stop arguing with you so how can I re-start with another person. besides, you and brothers KS and Emir too have done something similar. please take it up with TI. I don't agree with him insulting or making fun of anyone.

yes you did mention some points of tasawwuf in previous posts, but other than that, all you've been doing is bickering over soft spots and hard spots and who loves who how much and why.

I didn't use the word love. bickering - yes and I regret it.

how many senior Ridawis in india do you want me to name who have TV's in their homes... despite Mufti A3zdham's fatwa and their own fatawa against the devil box?

please recall what I said earlier:

I am sure many members of this forum will be aware of ill disposed people and unacceptable incidents relating to various silsilahs. I know things about certain rizvis that will make any sensible person's head spin. but it always comes down to individuals versus his associations.

where we should be expending our energies on combating the fitnah of the likes of tahir, the tafdilis, and others, it causes you people greater grief why DI or Mawlana Ilyas are revered by some Sunnis!

i don't know how to reply to this.

seriously, this is an embarrassment. utterly shameful.

yes. so lets stop this now. kay?

wassalaam.

 

[Taalib-e-Ilm]

I will reply if I get a laptop as it's not too comfortable typing so much on phone. In sha Allah, till then.

 

[abu Hasan]

alright then. let us call it quits now.