AQ's ulterior motives

[AbdalQadir]

insulting Shuyukh

objectively calling a disgusting buhtan as a disgusting buhtan is not "insulting shuyukh".

(just so no one accuses me of denying what i said, i also called it despicable, and dirty politics. it is a despicable thing to lay a buhtan against fellow Sunnis. and the very fact that it's a buhtan, it makes the whole saga 'dirty politics')

again, i know it doesn't appeal to the star studded eyes of a few, but of all people, shuyukh should know that claims need to be accompanied by evidences. other than that, you added some of your own spice (like money-grabber) to my objective criticism, but i'll let that fly

demanding Murids to provide proofs

i didn't demand it from mureeds. some offered themselves to do it on behalf of their shuyukh. i said it's their choice if they wish to do it

i wish for the evidences to be available in public sphere, one way or another.

again, the evidences should have been provided right from the get go. that's what Ala Hazrat would have done or expected of those who take the reigns of his legacy after him - as that's fard in deen - the onus of proof is on the claimant!

Let's say I said:

your and unbeknown's fixation with DI or Mawlana Ilyas is insane. you can't leave DI/Mawlana Ilyas and talk about Shaykh Yaseen Akhtar and his book for some reason.

AbdalQadirAttari, hope you can find out for me if Mawlana Ilyas aware of the aforementioned issues or else, you're a failure as a murid.

you're making a bunch of assumptions:

1. you're assuming i'm Attari
2. you're assuming i have access to Mawlana Ilyas or the ones responsible for publishing the Malfuz copies in question
3. you're assuming that i agree with/endorse the publishing of the said copies
4. you're assuming that i am a successful murid on whatever tariqa i'm following, or claim to be successful (it's Qadiri)
5. you're assuming you know about my associations and influences
6. like you offered to another member on another thread, and another member offered me on this thread, you're assuming that i have willingly offered to fetch some info or something from DI/Mawlana Ilyas

how do any of these assumptions help in the touchy topic of certain people leveling a disgusting buhtan of sulah kulliyat against Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi and his book?

--------

unbeknown, thank you for clarifying your 'moderator' status. a moderator going off on an emotion fueled attack by way of ad hominem, utterly lacking in all objectivity - would be counted as bullying.

but since you clarified your status and privileges, it shows that we were both on a level field at least - unless of course someone asks you to add Irfan-e-Mazhab o Maslak to the resources!

It's unfortunate that after only a fews days of amicable discussion it had to come to this.

i was being completely objective. you went off on all sorts of emotional tangents. inquisitive at least tried to maintain his composure

-----

i hope now something by way of objectivity or evidence might come up.

 

[Aqib alQadri]

@ Abdul Qadir

Have you read the books that followed? i.e. "Aaina e Sullah Kulliyat" by Anees Sehvaani, and the book given in the link by brother Inquisitive? Just curious.
-----------

please hold your horses - calling it "buhtan" by senior scholars' is a buhtaan in itself, unless it transpires that there is actually no truth in it. so be patient. maybe it is not just about Misbahi sahab's book.

you would not expect the senior mashaykh not to know the rules, that we already know. sometimes mashaykh will wait for years and not open the "pandora's box" - just for the sake of benefit to the ummah unless they are forced by circumstances.

our senior mashaykh are more upright than we can ever aspire to be.

 

[inquisitive]

You should read the short article I sent and talk to the Shaykh who wrote it. He seems level headed and he has refuted in an elegant manner and tackled the Crux of the matter.

 

[inquisitive]

Ayina e SulH Kulliyat appparently has no substance apart from personal attacks, which I personally doubt. I agree maybe some personal attacks were made (done by members of both parties) but that doesn't mean you disregard everything written.

AbdulQadirAttari is getting most of his info and material for posts from a Filthy Fitna Mongering blog which is also full of accusation with no proof but who cares about them not providing proof? eh? as long as they attack Shaykh Akhtar Rida and Shaykh Diya al Mustafa, its forgiven.

We need to be softer in our approach, remember, insulting Ulema or disrespecting them makes Iman Bil Khatima very mushkil. This goes for members of both camps, I see myself as neutral, tilting more towards the two aforementioned Shuyukh due to the piety on issues which is rare in this day and age. I have even heard that Shaykh Diya al Mustafa himself serves people food when they come to his home town. If so, this is amazing for such a big Alim to be so humble.

I also asked around and I was told that people who don't know the Crux of matters, the full background and those who don't live in the subcontinent won't fully understand the issues. Sometimes, you need to pick up the phone and ring the ulema at Hand, or ask them via Q and A which Shaykh Akhtar Rida does.

The day has come where holding on to ones Iman is like holding on to burning coals. The time will has come when people will burn for aeons in hell for a word which they don't even remember uttering. The time has come for us to be men and leave our fake names behind and enter the real world.

Its easy for me to write inquisitive and insult Ulema, its easy for abu Hasan to 'academically' voice his opinion, its easy for AbdalQadir to be rude and harsh towards Sunni Ulema but once our masks are removed, suddenly we're not so brave anymore.

All I request is talk on this forum how you would talk if people knew your name and where you lived and w'Allahi we would get along better.

Let's all try to see an Apple from all perspectives before we decide its fresh because otherwise, we'll eat the whole Apple and then realise the other half was laced with poison!

 

[Unbeknown]

I have even heard that Shaykh Diya al Mustafa himself serves people food when they come to his home town. If so, this is amazing for such a big Alim to be so humble.

true.

The day has come where holding on to ones Iman is like holding on to burning coals. The time will has come when people will burn for aeons in hell for a word which they don't even remember uttering.

May Allah forgive everyone who is not deliberate in his slips and who is not adamant about his errors.

wassalaam.

 

[snaqshi]

We need to be softer in our approach, remember, insulting Ulema or disrespecting them makes Iman Bil Khatima very mushkil. This goes for members of both camps, I see myself as neutral

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

I find such words amazing and some what bewildering, when there is absence of ijma3 and there is differing of opinions and if a person choose (for whatever reason) to adopt a differing opinion we should beat them up with "our yard stick", malign them and insult them, yet we do not apply the same yard stick to ourselves..........amzazing.

No supprise why our youth are so confused and are now attending deobandi centres and sohbets given by kellerites.....

 

[sunnistudent]

I also asked around and I was told that people who don't know the Crux of matters, the full background and those who don't live in the subcontinent won't fully understand the issues. Sometimes, you need to pick up the phone and ring the ulema at Hand, or ask them via Q and A which Shaykh Akhtar Rida does.

I live in India. Please tell me which book should I read to understand the Crux of the matter. Which Aalim do you want me to contact? Open letters and direct phone calls have been made to Mawlana Asjad Raza , but there has been no reply. A direct letter was written to Al Haj Saeed Noori ( Raza Academy) asking him to forward the letter to Mawlana Asjad Raza. The letter requested mediation and proof of accusations. The letter was forwarded to Mawlana Asjad Raza ( you can confirm this from Al Haj Saeed Noori. There has been no reply.

 

[inquisitive]

I live in India. Please tell me which book should I read to understand the Crux of the matter. Which Aalim do you want me to contact? Open letters and direct phone calls have been made to Mawlana Asjad Raza , but there has been no reply. A direct letter was written to Al Haj Saeed Noori ( Raza Academy) asking him to forward the letter to Mawlana Asjad Raza. The letter requested mediation and proof of accusations. The letter was forwarded to Mawlana Asjad Raza ( you can confirm this from Al Haj Saeed Noori. There has been no reply.

Go to Ghosi and meet Shaykh Diya al Mustafa or his Student Shaykh Shamshad. Meet Shaykh Akhtar from Jamia Aleemia. Meet those whom you can meet.

Do you know history of a man called Ubaidullah Khan ( I read about him on SunnaForum) who said the Murtad Khomeyni is a representative of the Prophet Muhammad Peace and Salutations upon him in abundance and some Ulema like Shaykh Yaseen regarding him as sunni sahih ul Aqiyda.

AbdalQadirAttari hates Hamza, Shaykh Yaqoubi, Habib Ali Jifri etc for saying similar statements so what about this Ubaidullah Khan?

I came across his name in Shaykh Akhtars pamhplet, did some research and found out about him. People can also do the same. If regarding such people as Sunnis is not SulH Kulliy-ism then I don't know what is.

All this is a bit shocking and too much to take for a person like me and I wish I hadn't joined this forum but I have and I enganged and entertained a thread I shouldn't have. I won't and can't run away from this now as I'm in the middle of it. Otherwise people will accuse me of cowardice. Not that I care but a Sunni has Ghayrat and some people on this forum come across as beygharat. Fix up, talk nicely.

People like AQA remind me of computers. Want to make everything appealing to the brain and logic. Have some heart as well.

It's one thing Ulema 'insulting' Ulema and its another thing when Laymen Jahil Cowards attacking the Ulema.

The Ridawis Blog was only made with the intention to cause ruckus and Fitna. It's a shame so called intellectuals like AQA using it to cause more fitna on Forums.

I also think Shaykh aH should be more manly and attack and criticise Ulema with his name. People may say it makes no difference but we all know it really does.

 

[inquisitive]

Dil ke phapoley jal uthe seene ke daagh se
Is ghar ko aag lagi hai ghar ke chiragh se.

 

[sunnistudent]

Go to Ghosi and meet Shaykh Diya al Mustafa or his Student Shaykh Shamshad. Meet Shaykh Akhtar from Jamia Aleemia. Meet those whom you can meet.

Mawlana Asjad Raza informed Shaykh Diya al Mustafa about the letter written by Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi. You can confirm this from Mawlana Asjad Raza. There has been no reply from him . When the accusations have been made publicly, why is the proof not given in public? Isn't it ajeeb that I slander you openly in forum and ask you to PM me to know the reason?

Every possible effort and request has been made including mediation of sadaat of Bilgiraam. There has been no proof of the accusations.

Mufti Shamshad Hussain Aleemi wrote an article proving how the book' Irfan e Mazhab wa maslak' is against 'sunniyat'. The article was answered and refuted by Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi who has openly circulated his letter saying that if the claimants are true, he will do tawba. After that there has been no reply except some young murideen printing and circulating the old accusations.

I have direct contact with both the scholars whom you have named.

Do you know history of a man called Ubaidullah Khan ( I read about him on SunnaForum) who said the Murtad Khomeyni is a representative of the Prophet Muhammad Peace and Salutations upon him in abundance and some Ulema like Shaykh Yaseen regarding him as sunni sahih ul Aqiyda.

Brother, I do not know much about Ubaidullah Khan, who is an Ex MP. Since you have made the claim, now just do one thing. Please tell me when did Ubaidullah Khan say this? Don't ask me to contact any scholar now, because you have made the claim.

 

[inquisitive]

I have made this claim. I don't know when he said it and I don't know where but I know he did say it.

If I cannot provide evidence then ask Ubaid Khan to take an oath and he is free from my accusation.
Al-Yameenu ala man ankara.

This article written by Shaykh Akhtar is after the two articles by Shaykh Yaseen.

Shaykh Shamshad Misbahi is not an Aleemi and he has not written anything refuting Shaykh Yaseen.

You made the claim that Shaykh Asjad told Shaykh Diya al Mustafa, and about Saadat e Bilgram. Don't tell me to ask Fulan. Prove it.

 

[inquisitive]

Why not go Ghosi? I will try and ask some brothers so you can have a private audience with Shaykh Diya al Mustafa..

 

[inquisitive]

Where are you from and what is your name? You can e-mail me and I will take an oath by Allah I won't reveal your identity.

 

[Unbeknown]

Ubaidullah Khan Azmi said it right on the podium in Ashrafiyyah in front of the students - my close friend was studying there at the time and he heard it with his own ears. Not one scholar present there raised a voice - I think because he is a politician.

Brother sunnistudent, I am surprised that you don't know this as this is a hot topic on the ashrafiyyah campus. I gather that you know Misbahi sahib very well you can ask him if you doubt it. I don't know the exact year.

Wassalaam.

 

[inquisitive]

Now this is established:

Questions to AQA.

1) Person A openly says Khomeyni, the Murtad is a representative of the Prophet. What is the ruling on him?

2) He does not do open tawba and yet Shaykh Y sits with him, does programs with him and regards him as a Sunni Scholar. What is the ruling on Shaykh Y, if he knows that Person A said such and as of yet, has not done Rujoo.

 

[sunnistudent]

You will never bring evidence on this accusation. Everyone can observe, how easy it is to make a claim and run away from evidence.

 

[sunnistudent]

I have made this claim. I don't know when he said it and I don't know where but I know he did say it.

If I cannot provide evidence then ask Ubaid Khan to take an oath and he is free from my accusation.
Al-Yameenu ala man ankara.

I am sorry, but this is not an accepted methodology. You bring your evidence or get me a fatwa from Tajusshariah or Muhadiith e Kabeer that Ubaidullah Khan Azmi is a bad mazhab or a non-sunni. Since you are asking me to go to Ghosi, do one thing. Go to Ghosi, take an oath ( regarding the statement you said about Ubaidulah azami) in front of any scholar you wish ( as per you methodology this oath will now become a shari'i evidence!) and then ask that Mufti to issue the fatwa against Ubaidullah Azmi.

This is the level now! When top scholars like Taajusshariah and Muhaddith e Kabeer have not called Ubaidullah Khan Azmi a ' bad mazhab' or a ' non sunni' , but on internet forums, accusations are made openly and when asked to bring evidence , the person has no reply!

This article written by Shaykh Akhtar is after the two articles by Shaykh Yaseen.

Which article?

Shaykh Shamshad Misbahi is not an Aleemi and he has not written anything refuting Shaykh Yaseen.

There are two scholars with the same name. Mawlana Shamshad Misbahi ( who teaches at Ghosi) and Mawlana Shamshad Bhagalapuri thumma Badayuni, who wrote a book against Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi.

You made the claim that Shaykh Asjad told Shaykh Diya al Mustafa, and about Saadat e Bilgram. Don't tell me to ask Fulan. Prove it.

Here is the proof:
Name of the article: Tauba wa rujuu hi wahid sharii hal
Author: Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi
Page :2
Released : 2 October 2014

The article is found on internet, with the author's phone number to confirm.

Now prove:

1) When Muhaddith e Kabeer and Tajjush shariah have not called Ubaidullah Khan Azmi as " bad mazhab' or"non sunni", what is your proof for this accusation? Note: If you bring such fatwa from any of the above two scholars I will accept,or else, you prove your point.

2) When accusations are made in public , the evidence has to be give in public. Don't ask me to to go Ghosi.

Till the time, you bring these evidence I am not stopping from asking you for the same. Please be decent and prove what you said or retract.

 

[sunnistudent]

Ubaidullah Khan Azmi said it right on the podium in Ashrafiyyah in front of the students - my close friend was studying there at the time and he heard it with his own ears. Not one scholar present there raised a voice - I think because he is a politician.

Brother sunnistudent, I am surprised that you don't know this as this is a hot topic on the ashrafiyyah campus. I gather that you know Misbahi sahib very well you can ask him if you doubt it. I don't know the exact year.

Wassalaam.

salam

Brother, if your close friend was studying there, please let me know the year in which Ubaidullah Khan Azmi said these statements about Khomeni. I hope, this won't be a difficult task, as he is your close friend and one spends maximum 9 years as a student in Ashrafiya. So please ask him and let me know.

 

[sunnistudent]

I shall wait for the evidence and year.

 

[inquisitive]

Has a istifta been given to the scholars mentioned above? how do you know they don't regard him as a bad mazhab?

I do not say they regard him as a non sunni. I am merely asking, do you know they don't. Leave this two Shuyukh to the side.

What is the ruling on anyone who says such things?