bitcoin - and about murtaddeen
- Thread starter Unbeknown
- Start date
abu Hasan
Administrator
so the question is: how do you deal with bitcoin as "thaman" or should it be deemed "thaman"?
laws concerning its commerce and financial capacity as a "currency".
the lament of the anarchist in this post is evidently justified: http://dailyanarchist.com/2013/01/30/is-bitcoin-sharia-compliant/
http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/04/is-bitcoin-sunnah-money/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370994.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358172.0
http://www.bitcoinobserver.com/news/Bitcoin-and-Islamic-Finance--Jan-Bergstra.pdf
http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/7961/is-bitcoins-a-halal-investment-instrument
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the key point that i am trying to make is that - most islamic scholars are unaware of what's happening in tech (and the world). whether bitcoin or apple pay. sadly, scholars from the subcontinent seem to be the farthest and least interested.
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bonus point: you can discuss bitcoin on our forum.
UPDATES:
many forums and communities are discussing this.
http://www.islamiceconomist.com/?p=1488
https://alkhilafaharidat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/btcedit-21.pdf
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/is-bitcoin-halal-what-is-bitcoin-57471/index9.html
https://www.igot.com/?gclid=CLOTvaep18ACFQcHwwodzr8AsA
DISCLAIMER: the links above do not mean that i endorse those PoVs.
laws concerning its commerce and financial capacity as a "currency".
the lament of the anarchist in this post is evidently justified: http://dailyanarchist.com/2013/01/30/is-bitcoin-sharia-compliant/
http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/04/is-bitcoin-sunnah-money/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370994.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358172.0
http://www.bitcoinobserver.com/news/Bitcoin-and-Islamic-Finance--Jan-Bergstra.pdf
http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/7961/is-bitcoins-a-halal-investment-instrument
=====
the key point that i am trying to make is that - most islamic scholars are unaware of what's happening in tech (and the world). whether bitcoin or apple pay. sadly, scholars from the subcontinent seem to be the farthest and least interested.
====
bonus point: you can discuss bitcoin on our forum.
UPDATES:
many forums and communities are discussing this.
http://www.islamiceconomist.com/?p=1488
https://alkhilafaharidat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/btcedit-21.pdf
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/is-bitcoin-halal-what-is-bitcoin-57471/index9.html
https://www.igot.com/?gclid=CLOTvaep18ACFQcHwwodzr8AsA
DISCLAIMER: the links above do not mean that i endorse those PoVs.
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Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
proves once again that Ala Hazrat was way ahead of his times when he wrote the masterpiece:-
Kifl al-Faqīh al-Fāhim fī Aĥkāmi Qirţās ad-Darāhim
Kifl al-Faqīh al-Fāhim fī Aĥkāmi Qirţās ad-Darāhim
Unbeknown
sunniport user
point: https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.kfd2oavxb
counterpoint: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1329647.0;topicseen
follow up: https://medium.com/@octskyward/a-small-followup-aa399a83acbb#.beil8qos0
haven't read the counter point.
I feel that the block-chain is a very good piece of tech and can be used in a great many places. But the idea of replacing the real currency itself seems quite far fetched. Maybe we'll reach some middle ground, if the earth endures that long and the bitcoin community or any other block-chain oriented one lives long enough and is able to generate mass appeal. After all, in the age of the internet, public opinion can easily be swung in any direction, provided one knows which buttons to push.
counterpoint: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1329647.0;topicseen
follow up: https://medium.com/@octskyward/a-small-followup-aa399a83acbb#.beil8qos0
haven't read the counter point.
I feel that the block-chain is a very good piece of tech and can be used in a great many places. But the idea of replacing the real currency itself seems quite far fetched. Maybe we'll reach some middle ground, if the earth endures that long and the bitcoin community or any other block-chain oriented one lives long enough and is able to generate mass appeal. After all, in the age of the internet, public opinion can easily be swung in any direction, provided one knows which buttons to push.
The owner of this website is a kafir murtad, pleasebe careful.
abu Hasan
Administrator
has now become murtadd.
see: http://lightuponlight.com/blog/about/
when i posted it - not as an endorsement, but just as what is available in islamic discourse related to bitcoin.
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i went to his new site and his logic is mainly:
- he was a devoted and practising muslim
- a lot of names-events (meaning fully involved)
- did a lot of work (technical help) to further islam
- he got doubts
- he read a few sites
and he left islam.
if you want to see the level of his 'reasoning skills' and logic; check what he says on his new site:
this is like saying - "if you want to have a bypass surgery nobody asks you for credentials or whether you are even illiterate. but if you want to do bypass surgery, they suddenly want you to have a post graduate degree in medicine, with additional experience in surgery, before you can even say you want to do an operation!"
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many of these stupid arguments against islam are because not even 1% of our kalam literature is translated in other languages. partly because, most of the sites on islam in english are not on kalam - salafis and wahabis have a mindset that kalam is bid'ah and they spend time refuting mutakallimin.
those who become murtadd, often claim that islam does not tackle criticism and nobody questions islam and qur'an and so forth. whereas, books of kalam - and tafsir of razi for example - go through objections and tackle them, offering answers and resolutions and where they cannot acknowledge frankly what cannot be explained.
but no atheist will tell you that. because people will stop becoming atheists.
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i would call him as a stupid idiot, but some members on our forum don't like such things.
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abu Hasan
Administrator
alHamdulillah, and i say this not as self-aggrandisement, but as reassurance to some muslims who might find such doubts deep down in their hearts. al-iyadhu billah.
i have read plenty of atheist literature and philosophy - and alHamdulillah, i was blessed to read many books on kalam in arabic, and alHamdulillah, i have never felt that the atheist argument ever made sense. as for their objection of islamic issues/beliefs etc., those who cannot think beyond the concept of universe and are constrained by physical laws as explained by books [written by men with a lot of extrapolation and induction].
as for murtaddin/kuffar whose mother tongue is arabic - that does not automatically grant them authority to become experts in the language. it is like saying that all native english speakers can criticise the language of shakespeare and all native urdu speakers can criticise the language of ghalib/iqbal.*
most of these people are not even aware of the depth and breadth of linguistics in arabic. i don't think there is any other language in the world which has so many grammars and linguistic analysis as arabic; and written by so many authors in all the ages. according to these modern arab atheist/murtaddin/kuffar, all of them were foolish and did not know their language as well good as these modern 'professors' do.
and what about the SaHabah themselves? they were the elite arabs, among their prominent poets and litterateurs. didn't they feel like questioning it or notice the "mistakes" [al-iyadhu billah] these people 15 centuries later now point out? it beggars belief that modern arabists are more proficient, learned or talented than say a Hariri or a zamakhshari.
which of them can come up with a narrative poem like Hirz al-amani, which is not only perfect poetry - but also a complex science, explaining variant readings of the qur'an. an atheist may not value imam shaTibi's expertise in qur'an readings [qira'at], but he will have to acknowledge the talent in composing such a poem - the skill to interweave words and letters as hints to the variation - definitely, cannot be composed by someone whose arabic skills are merely good, not even those who attend noman khan's intensive courses!
so if you go by the condescending attitude of atheists, all these experts were blind followers, simpletons who didn't have the courage to question.
sub'HanAllah.
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*criticising their ideas is not the same as criticising their language - in terms of linguistic abilities, they were past masters, even if you disagree with some of their ideas.
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PS: in the images, some names of books may be misspelled, wrongly spelled etc. please ignore.
i have read plenty of atheist literature and philosophy - and alHamdulillah, i was blessed to read many books on kalam in arabic, and alHamdulillah, i have never felt that the atheist argument ever made sense. as for their objection of islamic issues/beliefs etc., those who cannot think beyond the concept of universe and are constrained by physical laws as explained by books [written by men with a lot of extrapolation and induction].
as for murtaddin/kuffar whose mother tongue is arabic - that does not automatically grant them authority to become experts in the language. it is like saying that all native english speakers can criticise the language of shakespeare and all native urdu speakers can criticise the language of ghalib/iqbal.*
most of these people are not even aware of the depth and breadth of linguistics in arabic. i don't think there is any other language in the world which has so many grammars and linguistic analysis as arabic; and written by so many authors in all the ages. according to these modern arab atheist/murtaddin/kuffar, all of them were foolish and did not know their language as well good as these modern 'professors' do.
and what about the SaHabah themselves? they were the elite arabs, among their prominent poets and litterateurs. didn't they feel like questioning it or notice the "mistakes" [al-iyadhu billah] these people 15 centuries later now point out? it beggars belief that modern arabists are more proficient, learned or talented than say a Hariri or a zamakhshari.
which of them can come up with a narrative poem like Hirz al-amani, which is not only perfect poetry - but also a complex science, explaining variant readings of the qur'an. an atheist may not value imam shaTibi's expertise in qur'an readings [qira'at], but he will have to acknowledge the talent in composing such a poem - the skill to interweave words and letters as hints to the variation - definitely, cannot be composed by someone whose arabic skills are merely good, not even those who attend noman khan's intensive courses!
so if you go by the condescending attitude of atheists, all these experts were blind followers, simpletons who didn't have the courage to question.
sub'HanAllah.
===========================
*criticising their ideas is not the same as criticising their language - in terms of linguistic abilities, they were past masters, even if you disagree with some of their ideas.
----
PS: in the images, some names of books may be misspelled, wrongly spelled etc. please ignore.
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abu Hasan
Administrator
another common complaint with murtaddeen who become atheists - "i could never understand x, y, or z issue of islam. hence i decided that it is entirely pointless." so he leaves islam and has suddenly achieves gnosis and absolute knowledge of the universe. as if atheism or 'science' can explain everything clearly and without a shadow of doubt.
suppose one or two aspects of religion are not clear to you - or your mind does not appreciate it - or that you don't find it reasonable, should you leave the faith completely? because, it is not just moving from one party to another - the stakes are too high: it is an eternity in paradise or an eternity in hell. would you place such a huge bet only on the basis of your own understanding and learning (regardless of your erudition)?
one should have the courage to say: "i don't know. i cannot explain it - just because i cannot explain it doesn't mean it is incorrect. just because some explanations do not appear reasonable doesn't mean that i must disbelieve in everything. there are many things that i don't understand, but i still trust things will work. i may not know how to fly a plane, but i fly without thinking. why is it that something should be incorrect UNLESS i understand it. do i understand everything? am i an expert in every science? if not, then why should i be an expert in islam, and understand every little nuance - otherwise, i cannot be muslim?"
but no! they want to be experts on islam, qur'an and sunnah. and things should be apparent - just like that without even attempting to gain an understanding. apparently, what the finest minds in islamic history discussed - should be available to people with ordinary intelligence without any training or learning. otherwise, islam is flawed and they will leave islam. (al-iyadhu billah)
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nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.
suppose one or two aspects of religion are not clear to you - or your mind does not appreciate it - or that you don't find it reasonable, should you leave the faith completely? because, it is not just moving from one party to another - the stakes are too high: it is an eternity in paradise or an eternity in hell. would you place such a huge bet only on the basis of your own understanding and learning (regardless of your erudition)?
one should have the courage to say: "i don't know. i cannot explain it - just because i cannot explain it doesn't mean it is incorrect. just because some explanations do not appear reasonable doesn't mean that i must disbelieve in everything. there are many things that i don't understand, but i still trust things will work. i may not know how to fly a plane, but i fly without thinking. why is it that something should be incorrect UNLESS i understand it. do i understand everything? am i an expert in every science? if not, then why should i be an expert in islam, and understand every little nuance - otherwise, i cannot be muslim?"
but no! they want to be experts on islam, qur'an and sunnah. and things should be apparent - just like that without even attempting to gain an understanding. apparently, what the finest minds in islamic history discussed - should be available to people with ordinary intelligence without any training or learning. otherwise, islam is flawed and they will leave islam. (al-iyadhu billah)
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nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.
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abu nibras
Staff member
Atheism and it's influence are real and the west failed to foresee or do anything about it's impact.
As these ideas become mainstream, Muslims will encounter it at some level.
I believe that aethism can only be tackled with two things, both of which require tawfeeq from Allāh subhãnahu wa tàâla.
1. Opening in Ilm leading to yaqeen
2. Opening of the heart leading to yaqeen
Sometimes 1 may lead you to 2.
If you have love for Allah taala and for his beloved rasul sallallahu alaihi wa sallam in your heart, and if you are riddled with doubts then the second option is an easy one to seek, and is made available to you as a grant from the grants of al Habib al MuStafa sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to his ummah.
Alhamdulillah we have access to such gifts and awrad sharifah through the awlia and kamileen of the ummah.
And by Allāh, these openings of the heart are an answer to every question out there that may confuse the Ahlul imaan.
It is my belief that as we live closer to the qiyamah than ever before, the forces of shaytan are more active, sins that were hard or impossible to do in earlier times are easier to do today.
Allāh taàla has likewise eased openings of doors and avenues to khayr, which were difficult to attain earlier.
The preconditions for this opening are adab and love for his habib.
رَبَّنَا لَا تُزِغْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا وَهَبْ لَنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْوَهَّابُ
Ameen.
As these ideas become mainstream, Muslims will encounter it at some level.
I believe that aethism can only be tackled with two things, both of which require tawfeeq from Allāh subhãnahu wa tàâla.
1. Opening in Ilm leading to yaqeen
2. Opening of the heart leading to yaqeen
Sometimes 1 may lead you to 2.
If you have love for Allah taala and for his beloved rasul sallallahu alaihi wa sallam in your heart, and if you are riddled with doubts then the second option is an easy one to seek, and is made available to you as a grant from the grants of al Habib al MuStafa sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to his ummah.
Alhamdulillah we have access to such gifts and awrad sharifah through the awlia and kamileen of the ummah.
And by Allāh, these openings of the heart are an answer to every question out there that may confuse the Ahlul imaan.
It is my belief that as we live closer to the qiyamah than ever before, the forces of shaytan are more active, sins that were hard or impossible to do in earlier times are easier to do today.
Allāh taàla has likewise eased openings of doors and avenues to khayr, which were difficult to attain earlier.
The preconditions for this opening are adab and love for his habib.
رَبَّنَا لَا تُزِغْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا وَهَبْ لَنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْوَهَّابُ
Ameen.
Unbeknown
sunniport user
subHanAllah sidi that's a very beautiful thought.
Unbeknown
sunniport user
Unbeknown
sunniport user
that might change, at least in India: RBI is looking at its own Bitcoin.
it's still going to be fiat, though. 'Fiat Cryptocurrency' for Digital Rupee.
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but in the wake of a criminal-demonetization it might portend something really sinister: Rothschild Family Dumps U.S. Dollar.
a 1988 article on the official Economist site: One world, one money
As per wikipedia the Rothschild family is one of the owners of the Economist group, which runs the magazine.
Seems, that the prophecy is due next year. And more.