G F Haddad: Hell Fire Coming to an End Position of Sahabah

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kattarsunni

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The torment of hell coming to an end

Posted on September 30, 2012 by Shaykh Gibril Fouad Haddad
Question:

As-salamu alaykum,

Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Qayyim are said to have held the view that the disbeliever will not be punished eternally (http://muridslog.blogspot.com/2009/11/ibn-arabi-and-ibn-taymiyya-on-hereafter.html), and Ibn Arabi claims the same thing in Futuhat. I have been told that this belief is Kufr. Please shed some light on the issue.

Answer:

`Alaykum Salam,

This belief was said to violate the consensus but, at the same time, it is not something new and the same was related from greater than those you cited, namely certain Sahaba and Tabi’in who belong to the centuries recommended by the Holy Prophet (upon him blessings and peace); and Allah is able over all things.

Hajj Gibril Haddad
http://eshaykh.com/doctrine/the-torment-of-hell-coming-to-an-end/
 
Shaykh Gibril is wrong to say it was claimed to be consensus when it was actual consensus. Secondly to say this was the position of Sahabah would make it a valid position but Shaykh Gibril knows very well that scholars like Imam Subki refuted this fallacy.
 
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gibril haddad is also a bought and paid for agent of the kuffar just like his shaykh nazim, 3alaihi ma 3alaih.

all these agents pretend to spread guidance and tasawwuf when in reality they have taken it upon themselves to spread misguidance, kufr and riddah.

the only reason he is defending this "belief" is because it was held by his evil shaykh nazim paleed, and he will have to answer a few questions to his ego and pride if he ever refutes it.

if he is honest, let him bring citations that such is the position of the sahaba. qaatalahullah.

what's he going to say to the so many Quranic verses that say that they shall abide in hell for ever and that their torment shall never be lessened?
 
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I seriously doubt they are paid agents. It's a simple case of holding an aberrant position. They must be corrected when they say such things and when they become obstinate they must be refuted openly.

By making conspiracy theories it does our cause no good. Similarly calling names and insulting does not win over undecided people. I know a few neautral people who have moved away from this forum for unnecessary name calling. Not because of the refuting but because of the playground attitude. We need to be objective in our response.
 
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kattarsunni said:
I seriously doubt they are paid agents. It's a simple case of holding an aberrant position. They must be corrected when they say such things and when they become obstinate they must be refuted openly.

By making conspiracy theories it does our cause no good. Similarly calling names and insulting does not win over undecided people. I know a few neautral people who have moved away from this forum for unnecessary name calling. Not because of the refuting but because of the playground attitude. We need to be objective in our response.
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i met Shaikh GF Haddad, and do not believe he is a paid agent either.
 
It's a simple case of holding an aberrant position.
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a life long commitment to defend very, very dodgy and known to be loyal-to-the-powers zanadiq (nazim & hisham) is not a simple slip.

Similarly calling names and insulting does not win over undecided people.
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sorry brother, i believe in being aggressive over zanadiq. i don't see the point of refuting open contradictions to explicit verses of the Quran. i believe ihanah of the ahlul bid3ah and zanadiq is necessary and reward-worthy.

as for undecided people, if someone is truly undecided and ignorant of the truth, he will investigate things from all angles. if someone has already decided to stay an agnostic mubtadi3 or atheist hiding behind "uncommitted", your best language can't convince him. you also know of nj who despite kind counsel never mended his zandaqa. you also know of the so many shameless deobandi zanadiq all over the net who have seen all objective proofs, as well as a few "neutral" folks on the Sunni-deobandi issue despite having seen heaps of proofs against the deobandi elders!

our passivity is the reason we're losing people to these perennialists, deobandis and wahabis.

We need to be objective in our response.
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firstly, guidance is not in our hands. just to give an example, objective proofs exist on matters of Mawlid, proclaiming Ya Rasul-Allah, etc. it convinces some, yet doesn't affect some others.

secondly, on matters that are blatantly obvious and people lying against explicit verses of the Quran, we need to more than just "refute". it is not about being childish or having a playground attitude.

this whole thing reeks of a campaign to propagate the belief that people of every religion shall go to heaven, and therefore stop the advance of da3wah and proselytization.
 
A refutation without name calling is more effective. Name calling and unnecessary comments distract from the actual issue.

It does matter if your language dissuaded people from the argument and it does matter if people choose to dismiss your argument based on your language. If that were not the case why would Sayyiduna Musa alayhisalam be ordered to use soft speech with Pharaoh in order that he repent? And Pharaoh did not repent.

Yes there were times when Ulama were harsh in their language, but there are much more instances when they were not. Even when they were harsh their writings were filled with knowledge. In this case you only post curses and names without bringing any substance forward. This has no real effect except perhaps to take a load off your chest or something else which you will only know of.

When Imam Subki refuted Ibn Taymiyyah he did not declare the former a kafir due to some considerations. Even though the position is kufr. I think we need to concentrate on content more than distractions like cursing and name calling. It don't achieve anything and it is not taken serious. Especially when you add conspiracy to it.
 
concentrate on content
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the actual issue.
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can you please point to the actual issue in propagating contradictions to the Quran that disbelievers torment shall come to an end?

why would someone want to propagate such beliefs?
 
It is heresy to believe that the fire of hell will some time be extinguished or that Hell will be destroyed (fanaa), (and therefore no more punishment for the disbelievers);

a person holding such beliefs is bud-aqeedah.
 
Aqib Qadri said:
It is heresy to believe that the fire of hell will some time be extinguished or that Hell will be destroyed (fanaa), (and therefore no more punishment for the disbelievers);

a person holding such beliefs is bud-aqeedah.
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how come? it contradicts explicit verses (except perhaps one). What is the madhhab of the fuqaha in this regard as opposed to the mutakallimoon? and is the position of ash'aris and maturidis in regard to the nature of this heresy same?

jazakAllahu Khayran.
 
the most prominent deniers of everlasting fire were the jahmiyah, as noted in books of aqidah; and therefore this point was highlighted and refuted and was a point of aqidah which every muslim should know, hence its mention in all beginner texts.
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in bad' al-amali:

wa la yafna'l jahimu wa la'l jinanu
wa la ahluhuma ahlu'ntiqali
neither hell nor paradise will be annihilated
and neither will their dwellers go out of (either hell or paradise)

---
in jawharah:

daaraa khuludi li's sayeedi wa'l shaqee
mu`addhabun muna`amun mahma baqee
the two eternal dwellings - [one] for the fortunate and [one] for the evil, criminals
punishment and reward for them will be abiding, in whichever [of the two] they abide forever.

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also attached is imam subki's risalah, "al-iytibar bi baqa al-jannati wa'n naar" attached here, where he begins citing ijma'a as stated by ibn Hazm.

if you prefer kawthari edition: see here. [PDF 1.2MB]

another edition on bibalex you can read (not good print though) and not straightforward to download:
http://dar.bibalex.org/webpages/mainpage.jsf?PID=DAF-Job:172064
 

Attachments

i said:
his evil shaykh nazim paleed
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my reason:

spot the kufr:
how many according to fuqahaa?
how many according to mutakallimoon?

http://sufi-zentrum-rabbaniyya.de/en/sohbet_sne_engl/sne_Congratulations_To_The_Pope.php
Eusubillahi-mineş-şeytanirrajim
Bismillahirr-rahmanirrahim
Congratulations To The Pope
Shaykh Nazım el-Rabbani | Cyprus 05.03.2013
His Holiness the Pope, he just prepared to be a good servant for his Lord only. Congratulations to him, long life with good deeds. His Holiness the Pope of Rome. The best one of the Catholic Church up to today, whom I met & found in a good way. And his good intentions are only to be a servant for his Lord. And just he be what I was intending for him to be. No any rank for a person more than to be his Lord's servant. Just he prepared, his Holiness, to be only for his Lord, a humble servant without carrying any honour for anyone then to be his Lord's servanthood. Just he prepared to be only for his Lord's servant freely without carrying any other rank or honour. Congratulations and good life for him here & Hereafter, to be with good ones in DivinelyPresence. Congratulations for his rank that anyone can't think such a things except who is understanding such a language of real servanthood. Just he met with a humble servant of The Lord of Heavens & we were happy to be with him & asking from my Lord to make him closer to His Divinely presence.

May Allah (swt) forgives me & forgives him also. He was a good fighter against satan, sadanas. We are also against sadanas. That is real way for believers to fight sadanas. And he his Holiness he did his best as he was thinking. May Allah (swt) forgives me & him, and other believers &… real believers. To protect them from a big war that should be before the Day of Resurrection on earth.

May Allah (swt) blesses His blessed ones forever. From first man Adam (as) and whole Prophets (as) that we are believing in the last one also Sayyidina Muhammad (saws). That he...he (saws) has a majestic position in Divinely Presence through Heavens, as all Prophets (as) including Jesus Christ (as), Moses (as), & others, Abraham (as), Is'haq (as) Yaqub (as), Jacob, they were all in Divinely Presence. They are climbing, climbing to be humble servants for their Lord Almighty Allah (swt). Allahu Akbar! The Lord of Heavens all over forever.

It is a small presenting what happened for my friend Pope of Catholic Church. And I am asking a good... a good future for him here & The Day of Resurrection. May Allah (swt) forgives me. Yes Sir. I shall speak from now up to end of day it is not enough. But it is enough for who may understand something. Don't run after dunya and its imitated titles. You must ask real title in Divinely Presence of The Lord of Heavens.

May Allah (swt) gives a good understanding to whole people particularly who they are running after sadanas not following Prophets (as). May Allah take them away & brings Heavenly Justice on earth to be whole mankind happy here & happy in Divinely Presence. Keep servanthood of your Lord or His heavy... His Mighty Power should take them away because they are following sadanas not following Holy Prophets & Holy Books. Beginning from Adam (as) and ending with the Seal of Prophets Sayyidina Muhammad (saws).

Thank you for your listening. Please whole mankind may think on it. I am very simple servant. I am saying Allahu Akbar! I am saying Allahu Akbar, La Ilaha illa Allah Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar wa Lillahi Al Hamd. Say it & you should be happy here & Hereafter.

Give your highest respect to your Lord and His servants. Merci beaucoup! I am embracing his Holiness and I am thinking for him a good future here & hereafter and good honour in The Day of Resurrection.

Enough!
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Unbeknown said:
how come? it contradicts explicit verses (except perhaps one). What is the madhhab of the fuqaha in this regard as opposed to the mutakallimoon? and is the position of ash'aris and maturidis in regard to the nature of this heresy same?

jazakAllahu Khayran.
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I had posed the question to Hazrat Taj ushSharia Mufti Akhtar Rida Khan - "what if a person believes that finally Hell will be destroyed?" (jahannam fana'a kar di jayegi) . I clearly remember he said "Such a person is bud-aqeedah" (woh bud-aqeedah hai) - It was a short, quick reply, so perhaps he did not elaborate whether the heresy has actually crossed the limit of Kufr.

I read Imam Subki's treatise that explicitly says there is Ijma'a that disbelievers will be punished forever, and therefore it is Kufr to believe otherwise. (It also discusses Surah Hud Ayah 107, and Surah An'aam Ayah 128).

I seek Allah's pardon, and apologize to my friends, if there was a confusion.
 
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in mu'taqad al-muntaqad of imam faDl Rasul badayuni, he mentions like all other texts (taHawiyah, nasafi, sharH al-aqayid, etc.)

[paraphrased translation:]

that heaven and hell are two abodes that are created and present (unlike mu'tazilah who say that it is not present now, but will be created on judgement day) and both dwellings shall abide forever; and the dwellers therein shall also stay in forever. ibn taymiyyah and his student ibn qayyim al-jawziyyah said that hell will be extinguished eventually. and there are reports by SaHabah ibn mas'ud, ibn umar, abu sayid and ibn abbas, about 'hell extinguishing' but that should be understood in the context of sinners among muslims being removed from hell. but this [ibn taymiyyah's] is a rejected opinion and proscribed viewpoint which is neither followed nor relied upon. [mu'taqad,p.187]

[aH: as alahazrat has said: Allah kya jahannam ab bhi na sard hoga // ro, ro ke Mustafa ne dariya baha diye haiN]

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alahazrat has a footnote [#306] [again paraphrased:]

it is sufficient proof that Allah ta'ala has said:

surah al-baqarah 2:167

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surah al-mayidah, 5:37

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elsewhere in the same book, alahazrat has said that we do not do takfir of ibn taymiyyah. imam subki and many ulama who came after him did not do takfir of ibn taymiyyah. so it is implicitly understood that such a belief is heresy and kufr in itself, but we do not do takfir of those who hold this aberrant view, based on a misunderstanding of verses or hadith that talk of "hell being empty" or "hell extinguished".

note: imam faDl al-rasul ALSO mentions ijma'a of muslimin on this aspect, that hell will not extinguish contrary to ibn taymiyyah's claim.

i assume taju'sh shariah [who has also translated mutaqad/mustanad into urdu] summed up the jumhur opinion [concerning those who say hell will extinguish eventually] thus.

Allah ta'ala knows best.
 
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same strange claims are made about hazrat molana abdul'rrahman al-jami alaihi rahmah regarding imam mehdi here on amiruddin's blog, does anybody have any knowledge, i suspect false attribution to him.
 
see what he says here - https://ahmedamiruddin.wordpress.co...hestani-imam-mahdi-rad-is-not-sunni-nor-shia/

According to Mawlana Shaykh Nazim al-Qubrusi, Imam Mahdi (as) is neither Sunni nor Shia. Mawlana said, “May Allah forgives us, and protects all our brothers, sisters and believers, mo’min people, to reach and to be with Saheb uz-Zaman, Imam ul-Asr, we hope. He is brining Sirr ush-Shariah. GrandShaykh was asking [Hadrat Mahdi], I was there, Oh Saheb uz-Zaman, which Madhab you are following? I am hearing, he (Hadrat Mahdi) said, “O Shaykh Abdullah, I am not in need to follow any Mahdab, we are like Prophets (infallible). What he was making way for his Ummah, we are going first, and whole Shia, Sunni, Salafi, Malafi, all of them must follow me. Who is not following, I am ordering to be taken away 70,000 from those people whom they are claiming we are Ulemas”*.
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i wonder what gibril haddad has to say to this!
 
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