Mawlid Debates | Priorities Of The Ummah | Shaykh Asrar Rashid
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_pMQOJxY9wM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_pMQOJxY9wM
Shaykh Asrar on Mawlid Debates
- Thread starter Harris786
- Start date
Inwardreflection
sunniport user
Most Sunnis hold Milad Shareef all year round, it increases during Rabbi Al Awwal. Poetry is recited in these gatherings and we seek Allah's Barakah through Tabarruk at many of the Mawlid gatherings, why should we change the other things? If Suyuti, Subki, Iraqi, Haithami legislate it's ok and something good then Alhamdulillah their deduction suffices me.
Tomorrow what else will they say- stop Tawassul and are we going to stop this as well? What then, don't visit the Shayukh who have left this world when the Holy Prophet commanded us to visit graves? Then they will tell us to stop making special trips to Medina Shareef.
They won't stop until we follow what they follow, may Allah protect us.
Tomorrow what else will they say- stop Tawassul and are we going to stop this as well? What then, don't visit the Shayukh who have left this world when the Holy Prophet commanded us to visit graves? Then they will tell us to stop making special trips to Medina Shareef.
They won't stop until we follow what they follow, may Allah protect us.
Abu Aleshba
sunniport user
Who cares what they* think.
I suspect this is a case of moving in the direction of the Non-Sunnis in order to strengthen ones position in debates and disputes with the very same Non-Sunnis. We're seeing more of this. I suspect this is more a Birmingham issue with it being a hot-bed of Non-Sunnism and extremism and the more common debates/disputes.
I hope the likes of Bradford and other cities don't get influenced similarly.
* Non-Sunnis.
Abu Aleshba
sunniport user
A comment responding to the youtube video below (see video comment section):
Bananaman writes:
"A very sensible answer. Very similar to what Mufti Taqi Usmani from the Deobandis said. I'd go further and say that even with the differences on Ilm al-Ghayb, Hazir-Nazir, Noor-Bashr, etc are not from the necessities of religion (REGARDLESS OF THEIR BEING CORRECT OR INCORRECT) so should not be made yardsticks by which individuals are expelled from being Sunni. In fact, a person can remian neutral and ignorant of these issues and still be a fully fledged Sunni, so why not adopt this approach when it may be able to unite the Sunni community on one Aqeedah?"
Bananaman writes:
"A very sensible answer. Very similar to what Mufti Taqi Usmani from the Deobandis said. I'd go further and say that even with the differences on Ilm al-Ghayb, Hazir-Nazir, Noor-Bashr, etc are not from the necessities of religion (REGARDLESS OF THEIR BEING CORRECT OR INCORRECT) so should not be made yardsticks by which individuals are expelled from being Sunni. In fact, a person can remian neutral and ignorant of these issues and still be a fully fledged Sunni, so why not adopt this approach when it may be able to unite the Sunni community on one Aqeedah?"
Inwardreflection
sunniport user
Bananaman can choke on his samosa, how can you compare Sunni ulema to deo gandis. The enemies of Islam and shaytaan have failed on so many levels to destroy Islam so then they changed tac tic to try and remove the love of the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon Him) from the hearts. What do all these groups have in common, its always the same at the very root for them and it centers around them trying their hardest to remove the great respect due to the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him).
Yes there is room for slight manoevre on some issues. BUT that is with those who are not putting up this facade of uniting under one banner while covering up their agenda of trying to disconnect our hearts from the Holy Prophet and trying to make people think He is an ordinary person , Maaz Allah ( Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)
With such groups there can be no reconciliation until they repent, change and show the correct adab and Honor.
Inwardreflection
sunniport user
*With such groups there can be no reconciliation until they repent, take the Shahadah in some cases, change and show the correct adab and Honour
Shihāb Dīn
sunniport user
i hold shaykh asrar in high regard as a young, sunni scholar; however, I found the assertions forwarded in this clip to be illogical, incongruent and inconclusive. i made some passing notes whilst listening: an attempt to understand the logic and rhetoric of the clip.
----------
given that the clip is concerning the Mawlid Nabawi Sharif, and the way the rest of the clip pans out, we can safely say that a liberal dousing of equivocation* has peppered the shaykh’s words. that is, the issue of Mawlid Nabawi Sharif is, by its very nature betwixt sunnis and salafis, an issue of ‘dispute’; the only way it wouldn’t be, and both parties could arrive at some mutual ground concerning it, is if it was:
evidently it is neither, so the shaykh is mistaken in suggesting that mawlid isn’t, or at least shouldn’t be, an issue of dispute. one side must relent, either the salafis adopt the practice or the sunnis abandon the practice; there is no 'radical middle way'.
this is a very vague allusion to either ‘our salafi brothers’ or to sunnis. If the former, their gripe isn’t with ‘lights’ but with gathering to extol the Best of Creation (SallaAllahu alaihi wa sallam); and if the latter, you can’t surmise that 10 generations of scholars who wrote on the Mawlid did so to detail whether lights are permissible or not; in fact, no sunni today reduces the grand matter of the mawlid down to the permissibility or impermissibility of lights.
then in the spirit of finding common ground with ‘our salafi brothers’, given that the mawlid –according to the shaykh – is a ‘non issue’, the argument turns on itself: sunnis who spend 10,000s on mawlid gatherings should utilise the funds for anti-zionist literature (a greater priority). by the shaykh’s logic, condemning and condoning ‘non issues’ are equally useless and divisive.
‘scholars’; who are they? citing fakihani’s fatwa is an appeal to an irrelevant authority, presenting the idiosyncratic view of a lone, anti-mawlid scholar concerning the mawlid. we are under no obligation to accept fakihani’s fatwa, neither are we bound to acknowledge that his opinion is a valid opinion. his fatwa was based upon personal incredulity, and we say he was mistaken. and when asked, ‘who are you to say fakihani was mistaken?’ we admit we are nobodies, but imam suyuti’s refutation of fakihani is too marvellous to ignore:
here's the salafis' ultimate compendium of anti-mawlid literature:
there is not a single sunni's work against the mawlid included other than fakihani's.
--
in fact, rather than finding common ground, why not render their masters' words upon them and make them reevaluate their principles:
[2:00/7:51] rubric [?] of belief and jurisprudence
then lets abstain from every gathering held in masajid other than the prayers, for they would all fall under the ‘rubric’ of fiqhi non issues.
this is merely redefining the parameters of conventional definitions of the mawlid. why not just say, ‘leave your stubborn asses of leaders, and come celebrate the mawlid.’ the shaykh himself concedes that they refuse to do what he is asking of them. see, it’s not just about lights.
[3:15/7:51] innovating poets & poetry
firstly, who are these innovators who wrote poetry? and is their poetry in circulation amongst the masses, such that ‘our salafi brothers’ must remain on guard against them. secondly, the shaykh’s applied some more of that equivocation he opened with; what is deplorable to them is not deplorable to us. what we deem to be madH, they deem to be shirk. so is this a license for them to avoid the Burdah Sharif like the plague? for their hatred of the Burdah Sharif entails an express rejection of matters that are from the necessities of Faith and the necessities of the Ahl al-Sunnah.
[4:50/7:51] the vast majority of sunnis commit innovations in Mawlid gatherings
that’s a bit of a hasty generalisation. so most muslims who celebrate the blessed mawlid are in fact participating in gatherings of innovation? proof? and please, a better sample than pir x or pir y’s annual mehfil. in fact, this stinks of najdi logic; arguing from consequences:
which element of Mawlid gatherings, that the likes of Imam Suyuti, Imam Nawawi, Imam Abu Shamah, Imam Asqalani, Imam Haytami participated in, stray from the practices you mentioned? and why must the burden of unity always be upon the celebrators of the Mawlid; why don’t the salafis put their pens and tongues to rest, and acknowledge that it is merely a ‘non issue’?
No, lets. if it is good enough for Imam Suyuti, it is good enough for me.
----------
you get the idea; I’m too tired to write reams on every point. i'm convinced this was just a lapse on the part of the shaykh, and an ill advised decision to make a youtube video. we ask Allah to keep him firm on the way of the Ahl al -Sunnah.
----------
----------
[0:06/7:51] calling for a dialogue and a discussion; a revaluation of actual, and non-actual, issues of dispute
given that the clip is concerning the Mawlid Nabawi Sharif, and the way the rest of the clip pans out, we can safely say that a liberal dousing of equivocation* has peppered the shaykh’s words. that is, the issue of Mawlid Nabawi Sharif is, by its very nature betwixt sunnis and salafis, an issue of ‘dispute’; the only way it wouldn’t be, and both parties could arrive at some mutual ground concerning it, is if it was:
a. a religious obligation – like the 5 daily prayers or an emphasised sunnah
b. expressly forbidden
b. expressly forbidden
[0:20/7:51] some people are stuck on whether lights at the time of Mawlid are permissible or not
this is a very vague allusion to either ‘our salafi brothers’ or to sunnis. If the former, their gripe isn’t with ‘lights’ but with gathering to extol the Best of Creation (SallaAllahu alaihi wa sallam); and if the latter, you can’t surmise that 10 generations of scholars who wrote on the Mawlid did so to detail whether lights are permissible or not; in fact, no sunni today reduces the grand matter of the mawlid down to the permissibility or impermissibility of lights.
[0:30/7:51] the Saudis should use the money spent on anti-mawlid literature on anti-zionist literature instead
then in the spirit of finding common ground with ‘our salafi brothers’, given that the mawlid –according to the shaykh – is a ‘non issue’, the argument turns on itself: sunnis who spend 10,000s on mawlid gatherings should utilise the funds for anti-zionist literature (a greater priority). by the shaykh’s logic, condemning and condoning ‘non issues’ are equally useless and divisive.
[1:14/7:51] we had sunni scholars who opposed mawlid, like imam fakihani
‘scholars’; who are they? citing fakihani’s fatwa is an appeal to an irrelevant authority, presenting the idiosyncratic view of a lone, anti-mawlid scholar concerning the mawlid. we are under no obligation to accept fakihani’s fatwa, neither are we bound to acknowledge that his opinion is a valid opinion. his fatwa was based upon personal incredulity, and we say he was mistaken. and when asked, ‘who are you to say fakihani was mistaken?’ we admit we are nobodies, but imam suyuti’s refutation of fakihani is too marvellous to ignore:
here's the salafis' ultimate compendium of anti-mawlid literature:
there is not a single sunni's work against the mawlid included other than fakihani's.
--
in fact, rather than finding common ground, why not render their masters' words upon them and make them reevaluate their principles:
[2:00/7:51] rubric [?] of belief and jurisprudence
then lets abstain from every gathering held in masajid other than the prayers, for they would all fall under the ‘rubric’ of fiqhi non issues.
[2:30/7:51] hold gatherings reciting madH of the Messenger of Allah (SallaAllahu alaihi wa sallam) and seek blessings through his blessed relics
this is merely redefining the parameters of conventional definitions of the mawlid. why not just say, ‘leave your stubborn asses of leaders, and come celebrate the mawlid.’ the shaykh himself concedes that they refuse to do what he is asking of them. see, it’s not just about lights.
[3:15/7:51] innovating poets & poetry
[4:50/7:51] the vast majority of sunnis commit innovations in Mawlid gatherings
that’s a bit of a hasty generalisation. so most muslims who celebrate the blessed mawlid are in fact participating in gatherings of innovation? proof? and please, a better sample than pir x or pir y’s annual mehfil. in fact, this stinks of najdi logic; arguing from consequences:
1. Sunnis say Mawlid is permissible and an expression of love for the Messenger of Allah (SallaAllahu alaihi wa sallam)
2. Some pirs use these gatherings to commit Haram
3. Haram acts are never good or permissible
4. Therefore, the Mawlid must be impermissible
[6:00/7:51] if we stuck to the Sunnah we wouldn’t have any fraction amongst Muslims2. Some pirs use these gatherings to commit Haram
3. Haram acts are never good or permissible
4. Therefore, the Mawlid must be impermissible
which element of Mawlid gatherings, that the likes of Imam Suyuti, Imam Nawawi, Imam Abu Shamah, Imam Asqalani, Imam Haytami participated in, stray from the practices you mentioned? and why must the burden of unity always be upon the celebrators of the Mawlid; why don’t the salafis put their pens and tongues to rest, and acknowledge that it is merely a ‘non issue’?
[6:30/7:51] ‘Mawlid’, lets not use the term
No, lets. if it is good enough for Imam Suyuti, it is good enough for me.
----------
you get the idea; I’m too tired to write reams on every point. i'm convinced this was just a lapse on the part of the shaykh, and an ill advised decision to make a youtube video. we ask Allah to keep him firm on the way of the Ahl al -Sunnah.
----------
* Equivocation: A logical fallacy which uses the same term to mean different things within the space of a single discourse; it needn't be intentional or with ill intent.
Last edited by a moderator:
Moriarty
sunniport user
Shihab I think you have totally misunderstood his position.
The point about spending millions on a non issue, and instead should be spent on tackling Zionism, related to Wahabis and not Sunnis. The efforts spent against mawlid are futile and not of those who defend Mawlid. Otherwise the speaker hinself a staunch defender of Mawlid.
As for points regarding lights, flags and the term 'Mawlid', those points were mentioned because both Wahabis and Sunnis debate the points instead of the core issue. The core issue is whether commemorating the birth is permissible or not?
What specifics are considered innovation have been differed over by Sunni scholars themselves, like Imam Ibn Hajar Makki saying that to stand specifically at the point of the mention of the birth is an innovation. These finer points are differed over.
I consider the position of the speaker like the one stated by Imam Ahmad Sirhindi:
"And then you have asked concerning Mawlid. "
Imam Rabbani replies:
"What harm is there in reciting quran, naa’t [ song in praise of prophet] and manqabat [ song praising Awaliya Allah] in beautiful voice . WHAT IS PROPHIBITED IS to change the words/ pronunciation of Quran , to recite quran as if some one is singing a song and to clap which is not allowed even in the sessions of Poetry"
"If Mawlid is done in this manner that no mistake in quran recitation occurs and no mistake and careless ness occur in reciting qasida, then what is the harm in it ? My friend, strict measure is to be taken to close the door [ of careless ness] , otherwise there is a famous saying that small things results in big matter"
The point about spending millions on a non issue, and instead should be spent on tackling Zionism, related to Wahabis and not Sunnis. The efforts spent against mawlid are futile and not of those who defend Mawlid. Otherwise the speaker hinself a staunch defender of Mawlid.
As for points regarding lights, flags and the term 'Mawlid', those points were mentioned because both Wahabis and Sunnis debate the points instead of the core issue. The core issue is whether commemorating the birth is permissible or not?
What specifics are considered innovation have been differed over by Sunni scholars themselves, like Imam Ibn Hajar Makki saying that to stand specifically at the point of the mention of the birth is an innovation. These finer points are differed over.
I consider the position of the speaker like the one stated by Imam Ahmad Sirhindi:
"And then you have asked concerning Mawlid. "
Imam Rabbani replies:
"What harm is there in reciting quran, naa’t [ song in praise of prophet] and manqabat [ song praising Awaliya Allah] in beautiful voice . WHAT IS PROPHIBITED IS to change the words/ pronunciation of Quran , to recite quran as if some one is singing a song and to clap which is not allowed even in the sessions of Poetry"
"If Mawlid is done in this manner that no mistake in quran recitation occurs and no mistake and careless ness occur in reciting qasida, then what is the harm in it ? My friend, strict measure is to be taken to close the door [ of careless ness] , otherwise there is a famous saying that small things results in big matter"
abu Hasan
Administrator
and if imam suyuti did not include it in his maqaSid al-Hasanah, i doubt anyone in our times would have heard of it. that shows how confident our ulama were about sunni positions. what i find rich about wahabis is that they praise and quote fakihani's objection to mawlid, but ignore his categorisation of bid'ah! you should see the titles and accolades the heap on fakihani.
what a silly objection! which aalim condoned it? i don't know of any reputed sunni aalim who says that any of the videos below are praiseworthy or permissible even.
you can go down in the street and capture dozens of munkarat on your phone - and post them here saying: 'i have not heard of ulama condemning it'. the question is: how many ulama did you ask about this, and how many:
- dismissed it as a non-issue?
- refused to comment and chose to be non-comittal?
- praised it or justified it?
you can just tell us numbers, how many did you ask and what was the response?- refused to comment and chose to be non-comittal?
- praised it or justified it?
i am surprised at this self-flaggelation. every sunni alim who supported celebration of mawlid clearly specifies that it should be free from actions that are against the sharia'h. the jahalah of a few people cannot be cited to reject the practice or condemn everyone who celebrates mawlid.
have you visited a mosque recently? how many munkarat people commit! i once entered the masjid for jumu'ah and saw a young man wearing a sweatshirt with an obscene photo of a female emblazoned on his shirt. you know young people these days...but still, i couldn't stop myself. i approached the young man and told him that he shouldn't wear it anytime, let alone a mosque on a jumu'ah. to his credit, the guy asked me what he should do now. i told him to go back and change his clothes. he immediately left the mosque.
once, as i was finishing sunnah prayers after jumu'ah, a man came in and sat down close to me. he opened a newspaper - and you know how newspapers are nowadays. he spread it on the floor and was reading - pictures of scantily clad women again, and kafirs etc. spread out on the mosque carpet. i went to him and politely told him that it was impermissible as the masjid is for dhikr of Allah ta'ala. he gave me a stern look and continued turning pages. i persisted and i suggested why can't he go out in the yard, as there was a bench there too. he ignored me and clearly took offence.
will you say that all people who go to masjid wear improper clothes and read newspapers? and ask people to stop going to masjids because all they do is read newspapers?
----
same silly objection. by that logic, every munkar you have not posted here is not condemned by you.
according to your logic, any mufti who says that 'kullu muskirin Haram' is not sufficient. he has to condemn each and every type and kind of wine - see this infographic: http://winefolly.com/review/different-types-of-wine/. [you will have to run through other wine directories].
otherwise, you can say: "i have not seen any mufti condemning chardonnay or sagrantino..." and lament how muftis are lax and do not condemn certain types of wine.
abu Hasan
Administrator
rather, shaykh asrar has committed hasty generalisation, in his zeal to prevent people from committing munkars.
it is true that many people commit anti-shariah and anti-sunnah activities in the name of celebrating mawlid. it is also true that we are so busy in defending the practice, that we don't take time out to criticise these bid'a committed in the name of mawlid and to teach people not to do so. i don't attend mawlids unless i am sure that there won't be any anti-sunnah practices there. and for many years now, i spend the night of mawlid at home.
a couple of years ago, i attended a mawlid with a program like this:
- recitation of qur'an
- dhikr
- a few poems of alahazrat in praise of the prophet (from which some lines were explained to the common public)
- 10-15 minute explanation of the practice of mawlid, objections on it, answers of sunni ulama and the sharayi Hukm
- 1 hour reading from ibn sayyid al-naas: 'nur al-uyun'; a quick summary of the biography of the prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam; highlighting points of about his sunnah, his noble character and certain miracles.
- a 10-15 minute quick Q/A
- dua
- salam
- food
===========
since then, a few other friends have been doing a similar mawlid. in addition to nuur al-uyun, last year, there were readings from 'mawlid barzanji'; and this year, from 'loving the prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam' the portion from shifa sharif.
in another mawlid this year (only last week), the first five hadith from arbayin al-nawawiyyah were read and explained [along with basic principles of hadith, and associated hadith in the context of the first 5 hadith of arbayin; using ibn Hajar al-haytami's sharh and ibn rajab al-Hanbali's jamiy al-ulum as a guide].
wa billahi't tawfiq.
Last edited:
abu Hasan
Administrator
i received these milad cakes videos by brothers on whatsapp. i told them it is silly and what does this have to do with our mawlid?
just because rawafid self-flaggelate in muHarram, and exaggerate in the love of ahl al-bayt - we cannot stop loving the ahl al-bayt or give them reverence as is due.
wa billahi't tawfiq.
---
in summary, principles and practice are two different things. in principle mawlid is permissible and should be defended. in practice, only that mawlid which adheres to sunnah and is free from objectionable actions [by the shariah] are permissible.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
you're responding to Moriarty's ladies' Milad posted in post #11
i concur with Moriarty, and it is NOT a silly objection.
qtv is run ostensibly for the sake of Sunnis. there are respectable ulema (to the awam at least) that come to lecture on it. if they relay programs like this, the awam takes it as scholarly sanction.
the way those ulema and hosts of qtv talk about, address and mention such things, if someone asks about it, it sums up to this - rephrased in my words -
1) yes listening to na3ts by women is sinful, or watching women's vocalizations of Milad are not permitted for men, but we're a tv channel meant for responsible Sunnis, so if you see such a show, be an adult and don't watch. those programs are meant for women only ---- with that logic, they might as well start broadcasting women's only dance or aerobics classes, all based on the honor code that Sunni men should shut the tv off when they see this stuff!!!
aside - notwithstanding that a lot of women presenters who come on there are all dolled up, even if with proper hijab. also notwithstanding, that quite a few desi women (on qtv or otherwise) simply can't come to grip with proper Shar3i hijab and think that their dupatta is the be-all and end-all of Shari3ah's rules of hijab and modesty!!!
2) yes a lot of wrong things happen, but they are a lesser evil and an alternative to outright fawahish like movies, dramas, etc --- mark hanson uses similar reasoning when he says that perennialism is a great non-confrontational way to present Islam to the western audience!
aside- i agree that people should not be barred from attending a Milad or a special Shabe Me3raj mehfil with the intention that those who don't pray all year, at least they do some good deeds on that one day or that these events will be door openers for them to in-sha-Allah become more practicing Muslims, but people should be taught the priorities of deen, or else this lesser evil mantra will eventually lead to pure evil. years ago, i saw a couple of zealous people all coming to the mosque to pray nawafil on Shabe Me3raj, and those guys hadn't prayed 3esha even! i politely told them brothers please offer your farz 3esha prayers first, then you pray the nawafil.
no, but i will say without reservations that most people who go to mosques these days are careless to the point of disgust in the usage of mobile phones (it ranges from callousness to turn them off/silent inside the mosque hoping no one's gonna call, to letting them ring during salah to taking calls in Jum3ah khutbah to those careful ones who call back after salah, INSIDE the mosque disregarding others who are praying Sunnah, to people taking selfies inside the Haram, to people even using facebook and twitter) -
because reading newspapers or wearing kafir celebrity picture tshirts might be rarities, but ruthless carelessness in the usage of mobile phones is the NORM, as is plush extravagance in mosque decorations with million dollar chandeliers and so on!!! sure, you may not do such things yourself, i don't either, and people in small town masajid in india might take greater care, but the NORM that i have seen in the west and Arab world is what i just said. (remember Wadood's more affection for Malayali brothers and less affection to Pakistani ones
)we 'judge' a situation based on the norm, not the exception. we're not wahabis who will hang by the word 'kull'.
does that mean we stop going to mosque? no, but we unequivocally condemn the bad norms that have crept in our societies.
very sorry to say, but Mawlids, and na3tkhwanis more so, along with other 'Sunni' events have become fashion statements by people of duniya and the wrong practices have to be condemned. i concur with Shaykh Asrar Rasheed's statement, although i would have said 'the salafis' as opposed to 'our salafi brothers'.
not true again. of course Moriarty isn't talking about Ibn 3Ataillah when he says Sufis today don't condemn this stuff.
any proponent of Sufism has to distance himself from this dirty hippy culture. what we see in these times is the exact opposite. for money, or fame or winning fans, 'scholars' (even upright ones by 3aqidah) will gladly condone such or similar stuff and then it's all downhill for the awam. or of course, based on that same lesser evil maxim.
with due respect to your knowledge, we are not in those times anymore. people are no longer defined by certain stances, which was the reason behind Imame Azam's mentioning of that fiqhi issue.
in these times even perennialists and any secularist zindiq liberals celebrate Mawlid
people like jifry make it a point to extrapolate that to even Sayyidina 3Isa 3alaihis salam's birth celebration on christmas and make sure he greets the catholics and protestants in december and the orthodox in january! won't be long before hanson extrapolates it further to mark budh jayanti/vesak (why should he not celebrate Khidhr 3alaihis salam's birthday too, right? he considers buddha as Khidhr wal 3eyadhu billah), and who knows tahir might even come up with a fantastic explanation for celebrating ram navami
tahiris sing Ala Hazrat's Salam left right and center. like it or not, as much as my heart would want to say so and wishes to say so, fact of the matter is subcontinental Sunnis are NO LONGER (as in now and henceforth) defined by Ala Hazrat's Salam.
when i was a child, for me and my parents and grandparents, if we ever passed by some place, a house or mosque or anything, if the sounds of Ala Hazrat's Salam came from there, we would be delighted and our faces would lighten up. now, sadly, if i hear the sounds of Ala Hazrat's Salam coming from somewhere, i'm forced to tell myself these guys could be anything, real Sunnis or tahiri hippies, not make too much of it (the event, not the Salam), and move along! (despite loving the Salam itself)
to be honest we really are stuck between wahabis on one side and perennialists and dirty hippy secularist liberals (who feign Sunniyat) on the other side. we have to safeguard ourselves from BOTH sides
i respect your comments full well, but you're speaking only from the angle of anti-wahabism, while Asrar Rasheed is speaking from the angle of anti-wahabism as well as anti-(liberalism + perennialism + secularism).
Allah knows best.
Last edited:
abu Hasan
Administrator
don't get carried away AQ. i won't respond to you point-by-point, but your post is full of self-contradictions.
for example:
---
there are two things here:
---
who asked you for a carte blanche?
that is why asked whether you will stop mentioning the ahl al-bayt with respect just because rawafid exaggerate that?
----
in the end what is the summary of your and asrar sahib's position? we should stop celebrating and defending mawlid and allow 'dawah man' to prance around making faces: "kullu bid'atin dalalah..."?
as i said, it is misplaced zeal.
wAllahu a'alam.
for example:
in which case, you should side with the fatwa of taj al-shari'ah that TV is completely haram, and therefore madani channel should also be stopped.
---
there are two things here:
1. permissibility of mawlid itself
2. impermissible actions/munkarat in mawlid celebrations
when we argue with najdis and mawlid-haters, we are talking about the first one. we don't argue about the second point. this is from suyuti's time [husn al-maqsid trans, p15]:2. impermissible actions/munkarat in mawlid celebrations
---
another unwarranted statement that implies that we are against it. who is against condemning munkarat? if someone does not do it publicly or writes a book or talks about every munkar there is, it does not mean they condone it.
you assume that i disagree with shaykh asrar's criticism of munkarat. i have said in my post that i myself do not go to mawlids - even in masjids (where there is no free mixing etc.) unless i am confident that the speaker won't say something that makes me cringe. after being forced to correct major blunders of sunni speakers after their speeches (happened a few times) i simply stopped going to gatherings unless i know that some cautious maulvi sab will be speaking.
you assume that we want shaykh asrar to sign a blank paper saying "anything done by anyone who calls himself sufi is right. no questions asked.'
who asked you for a carte blanche?
blame it. you clean missed the point by half a mile.
so?
that is why asked whether you will stop mentioning the ahl al-bayt with respect just because rawafid exaggerate that?
----
in the end what is the summary of your and asrar sahib's position? we should stop celebrating and defending mawlid and allow 'dawah man' to prance around making faces: "kullu bid'atin dalalah..."?
as i said, it is misplaced zeal.
wAllahu a'alam.
Last edited:
abu Hasan
Administrator
this happened a while ago - during jumu'ah khutbah, the person sitting next to me was browsing and replying on facebook. i wasn't looking here and there - he was sitting next to me and i couldn't help noticing it. obviously, i couldn't ask him to stop either as it would be impermissible for me to do so at that point. he stood up and left immediately after the salam.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
Moriarty
sunniport user
That is the essence of what he is saying. I see no difference.
Moriarty
sunniport user
I see no difference between what you and Asrar in what you are saying, except he is saying most milads have issues of concern nowadays.