Sunnisoldier
Active Member
What is the ruling on a person who says Allah rebuked the prophet peace be upon him in Surah Abasa?
Nabi Alayi Salam Rebuked by Allah?
- Thread starter Sunnisoldier
- Start date
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
Allah Ta'ala can take his beloved as He wish, reprimand them for things how He desires.
If the one said it with the intent to denigrate it will render him a Kafir.
If merely based on Akhbaar he should not have discussed this unless for Ilm.
There are instances that Allah Ta'ala reprimanded His beloved. This has many Hikmah. There is nothing wrong stating such as it shows they are His beloved and He is their Rabb.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
If the one said it with the intent to denigrate it will render him a Kafir.
If merely based on Akhbaar he should not have discussed this unless for Ilm.
There are instances that Allah Ta'ala reprimanded His beloved. This has many Hikmah. There is nothing wrong stating such as it shows they are His beloved and He is their Rabb.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
izz al-Din
Well-Known Member
You said,
"Allah Ta'ala can take his beloved as He wish, reprimand them for things how He desires."
Please change the wording and retract, it is not acceptable in the English urf
abu Hasan
Administrator
yes you are wrong. you do not have adab. you are an ignorant boor - who doesn't know the meaning of words he uses.
better go and read shifa sharif than strutting your suu-adab.
may your face be sprayed with dust and dirt.
never say such a thing if you value your iman. wayHak! if you had said 'friendly reproach' it would have been better. 'itaab' does not mean reprimand.
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qurtubi in his tafsir, 22/72.
fourth: our scholars have said: that which ibn umm maktum did would be poor etiquette (suu adab) if he knew that the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam was busy with someone else, and he was hoping for their becoming muslims. however Allah ta'ala loving reproaches him so that you don't break the hearts of the ahl al-suffah (people of the porch), or that a poor muslims is better than a wealthy kafir; and that it is better to attend to a muslim even if he were a poor man and is better than others even if they people of wealth and influence.
however, the Prophet's sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam attention to the wealthy [infidels] was in the hope of their becoming muslims; yet, in saying this there was Wisdom in it...
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fifth: ibn zayd said: indeed the the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam frowned and turned away from ibn umm maktum, even though he had signed to the person who was leading him to hold him back; ibn umm maktum shoved him and insisted on speaking to the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam until he was informed. in this case, it is a sort of disturbing him and forcing upon him.
yet, Allah ta'ala said referring to His Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam: "he frowned and turned away", in a tense that refers to a third person; this is out of the extreme honour bestowed upon the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
Allah ta'ala did not say: "YOU frowned and YOU turned away".
and then immediately thereafter Allah ta'ala addresses the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam in the first person and says: "and what do you know..."
yet, Allah ta'ala said referring to His Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam: "he frowned and turned away", in a tense that refers to a third person; this is out of the extreme honour bestowed upon the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
Allah ta'ala did not say: "YOU frowned and YOU turned away".
and then immediately thereafter Allah ta'ala addresses the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam in the first person and says: "and what do you know..."
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sub'HanAllah! Allah ta'ala does not say: "i am reprimanding you" "i warn you" "you are rebuked" and such things; rather, to show the immense honour He has bestowed upon His Prophet Allah ta'ala refers to this in a third person...
but alas! uncouth humans go about blabbering that "Allah ta'ala 'rebuked'" the prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam"
o filthy man who says thus: look at your stupid face in the mirror and fear the day:
astaghfirullah. nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.
----
chisti-raza
Veteran
May Allah Ta'ala raise your respect in this world and the next just because of your writing of these words!
Salla Allahu 'alayhi wasallam!
izz al-Din
Well-Known Member
Mohamed shaksi, change your name here, for posting, and remove "shaksi".
Sunnisoldier
Active Member
At 1.20 Hamza Yusuf says that the Allah rebuked Aaqa ('alayhi salat wa salam)
This was about 8 months ago during a Jumah khutbah.
Hamza Yusuf shouldn't have used the word 'rebuked' ; It is bad adaab!
Rebuke meaning taken from Cambridge University
rebuke
speak angrily to someone because you disapprove of what they have said or done:
Refer to the clip above where 'Menk' says disparaging words against our Master ﷺ on the same verse, beautifully answered by Sh Ehsan Qadiri
Rebuke meaning taken from Cambridge University
rebuke
speak angrily to someone because you disapprove of what they have said or done:
Refer to the clip above where 'Menk' says disparaging words against our Master ﷺ on the same verse, beautifully answered by Sh Ehsan Qadiri
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
I cant believe the ignorance displayed here.
If you would have stated there are other interpretation possible . But the question was completely different. He asked for its Hukm and in this case my answer is correct.
The fact is Allah is His Rabb, and the most beloved is His Magluq. He can reprimand him as He wish, it is not regarded as Suu Adab, but it is the Shaan of the Holy Prophet that he was attended by His Rabb over matters which were not even regarded as a fault according to our norms. It shows the utmost high norms they have to abide to which no one can come near to. Even the passage of Qurtubi does not make your stance as Qat'i but its an another interpretation.
Even according the creed of Asha'irah and Maturidiyyah this stance isn't against Aqaaid. Rather I remembered reading this in an Aqaaid book.
Anyway good to see you people's intellect and (Takfiri) Muta'asib style. This is why Maslak is dying by such clowns doing bad dua others over matters which aren't even against sunni Aqaaid.
If you would have stated there are other interpretation possible . But the question was completely different. He asked for its Hukm and in this case my answer is correct.
The fact is Allah is His Rabb, and the most beloved is His Magluq. He can reprimand him as He wish, it is not regarded as Suu Adab, but it is the Shaan of the Holy Prophet that he was attended by His Rabb over matters which were not even regarded as a fault according to our norms. It shows the utmost high norms they have to abide to which no one can come near to. Even the passage of Qurtubi does not make your stance as Qat'i but its an another interpretation.
Even according the creed of Asha'irah and Maturidiyyah this stance isn't against Aqaaid. Rather I remembered reading this in an Aqaaid book.
Anyway good to see you people's intellect and (Takfiri) Muta'asib style. This is why Maslak is dying by such clowns doing bad dua others over matters which aren't even against sunni Aqaaid.
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
درقرآن مجید بآدم نسبت عصیان کردہ وعتاب نمودہ مبنی برعلوشان قرب اوست ومالک رامیرسدکہ برترک اولی وافضل اگرچہ بحد معصیت نرسد بہ بندئہ خود ہرچہ خواہد بگوید وعتاب نماید دیگری رامجال نہ کہ تواندگفت واینجا ادبی ست کہ لازم ست رعایت آن وآن انیست کہ اگر از جانب حضرت بہ بعض انبیا کہ مقربان درگاہ اند عتابی وخطابی رودیا از جانب ایشان کہ بندگان خاص اویند تواضعی وذلتی وانکساری صادر گرددکہ موہم نقص بود مارانبایدکہ دران دخل کینم وبدان تکلم نمائیم.
''أشعۃ اللمعات''، کتاب الإیمان، الفصل الأول، ج۱، ص۴۳.
قرآن مجید میں جو حضرت آدم علیہ السلام کی طرف عصیاں ونافرمانی کی نسبت کی اور ان پر عتاب فرمایا وہ حضرت آدم علیہ السلام کے خدائے تعالی کے مقرب ہونے اور ان کی بلندی شان پر مبنی ہے اور مالک کو حق پہنچتا ہے کہ اولیٰ وافضل چیز کے ترک کرنے پر اگرچہ وہ معصیت کی حد تک نہ پہنچے اپنے بندے کو جو کچھ چاہے کہے اور عتاب کرے دوسرے کسی کو کچھ بھی کہنے کی مجال نہیں ہے یہ نہایت ادب کا مقام ہے جس کا لحاظ ضروری ہے اور وہ ادب یہ ہے کہ اگر خداوندتعالیٰ کی جانب سے بعض انبیاء علیہم السلام پر جو اس کی درگاہ کے مقرب ہیں عتاب نازل ہو یا ان کی طرف خطا کی نسبت کی گئی ہو یا خود ان انبیاء (علیہم السلام )کی طرف سے جو کہ اس کے خاص بندے ہیں تواضع ،عاجزی وانکساری کی بات صادر ہو جس سے ان میں نقص وعیب کا وہم پڑتا ہو ، تو ہم بندوں کو اس میں دخل دینے یا اسے زبان پر لانے کی ہرگز اجازت نہیں۔
''أشعۃ اللمعات''، کتاب الإیمان، الفصل الأول، ج۱، ص۴۳.
قرآن مجید میں جو حضرت آدم علیہ السلام کی طرف عصیاں ونافرمانی کی نسبت کی اور ان پر عتاب فرمایا وہ حضرت آدم علیہ السلام کے خدائے تعالی کے مقرب ہونے اور ان کی بلندی شان پر مبنی ہے اور مالک کو حق پہنچتا ہے کہ اولیٰ وافضل چیز کے ترک کرنے پر اگرچہ وہ معصیت کی حد تک نہ پہنچے اپنے بندے کو جو کچھ چاہے کہے اور عتاب کرے دوسرے کسی کو کچھ بھی کہنے کی مجال نہیں ہے یہ نہایت ادب کا مقام ہے جس کا لحاظ ضروری ہے اور وہ ادب یہ ہے کہ اگر خداوندتعالیٰ کی جانب سے بعض انبیاء علیہم السلام پر جو اس کی درگاہ کے مقرب ہیں عتاب نازل ہو یا ان کی طرف خطا کی نسبت کی گئی ہو یا خود ان انبیاء (علیہم السلام )کی طرف سے جو کہ اس کے خاص بندے ہیں تواضع ،عاجزی وانکساری کی بات صادر ہو جس سے ان میں نقص وعیب کا وہم پڑتا ہو ، تو ہم بندوں کو اس میں دخل دینے یا اسے زبان پر لانے کی ہرگز اجازت نہیں۔
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
"Aur itaab Kare"...
Unfortunately the people here wish dirt and dust on the face of Sheikh Abdul Haqq Muhaddith Dehlavi. Its be Adabi of him to state such about a noble Prophet according the creed sunniportiyyah.
Peace and Blessings be upon them.
Unfortunately the people here wish dirt and dust on the face of Sheikh Abdul Haqq Muhaddith Dehlavi. Its be Adabi of him to state such about a noble Prophet according the creed sunniportiyyah.
Peace and Blessings be upon them.
He has a cross around his neck...
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
Yes this is brelwism of today.
He can wear it due to changing of Urf. Now please you brelwi go do bad dua dirt and dust on me for stating this, scold me and prove me doing be Adabi. No better prove me a Kafir because I made it halal to wear a tie, or according to brelwis a cross.
Fyi a tie today doesn't have the same hukm as it did in the time of Ahmad Rida Khan.
From now on I refuse to call myself a Brelwi. Thank you people for that.
itaab (عتاب) can mean friendly reproach, but reprimand or admonishment is never friendly, rather a firm disapproval.
you can't see the difference.
umar99 didn't state any hukm, it is your own derivation.
i couldn't find the word 'brelwi' in the whole thread except in your post, that too 4 times in a 5 lines post.
abu Hasan
Administrator
i waited for a day, hoping the idiot to realise his mistake, but it didn't happen. so let me state the obvious.
i got angry because a boor used inappropriate word when referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. but the boor became enraged and lashed out in self-righteous anger because he was addressed with harsh language. one should fear that they don't fall into this category warned by the qur'an; nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah:
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check what khattabi has to say about the idiom. and if you could quote a farsi passage, you would know what ﺧﺎﻙ ﺑﺪﻫن means.
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reprimand is severe reproof.
==================
you, in your arrogant manner say betraying your abject ignorance:
Allah ta'ala is Rabb and Creator of RasulAllah SallALlahu alayhi wa sallam; still, he did not address him by his name - out of love and immense honour He HImself bestowed upon His beloved. SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
even ibn taymiyyah highlighted this:
Allah ta'ala is Rabb and He has the Power and the Will to call His prophet by his name; but it only didn't happen. this was out of love and honour that He gave him.
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the brother said it [i saw it after i posted mine]
would you translate
hijrah as 'flight' [as the orientalists do]
or ummi as 'illiterate' as the wahabis do?
or wafat, tuwuffiya, maata, as 'died', 'dead' 'death'
or "Dallan" in surah Duhaa as 'misguided' 'astray'
or "dhanb" in the first verses of surah fat'H as: "sin"
but certainly, if you value your nafs above the respect that should be accorded to RasulALlah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, you can continue to call us names, and even thrown tantrums:
and who cares? may dust fill your face.
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sahabah used a word in good intention, and they were commanded to use something else. that is the adab of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. we ask Allah ta'ala to forgive our lapses and to be mindful of the adab of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
qadi iyad:
i got angry because a boor used inappropriate word when referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. but the boor became enraged and lashed out in self-righteous anger because he was addressed with harsh language. one should fear that they don't fall into this category warned by the qur'an; nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah:
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if you leave your arrogance and so-full-of-yourselfance, you will notice that our criticism was not on your 'interpretation'. you either don't read or you don't understand what you read.
sub'HanAllah, look at all that you have said just because i spoke harshly to YOU. but you don't mind using words that are inappropriate for RasulAlah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. that is the difference you are unable to make.
فاحثوا في وجوههم التراب
check what khattabi has to say about the idiom. and if you could quote a farsi passage, you would know what ﺧﺎﻙ ﺑﺪﻫن means.
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since when did shah abdul Haq sahib raHimahullah write in english? where did he say 'reprimand'?
yes. but itaab is not 'reprimand'. if you had read my post properly rather than blowing your top, you would have seen:
itaab is friendly reproach, as the poet says:
================
reprimand is severe reproof.
==================
you, in your arrogant manner say betraying your abject ignorance:
indeed, Allah ta'ala is Qaadir. but only this thing didn't happen. except in diseased minds which have hitherto not learned the adab of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
Allah ta'ala is Rabb and Creator of RasulAllah SallALlahu alayhi wa sallam; still, he did not address him by his name - out of love and immense honour He HImself bestowed upon His beloved. SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
even ibn taymiyyah highlighted this:
Allah ta'ala is Rabb and He has the Power and the Will to call His prophet by his name; but it only didn't happen. this was out of love and honour that He gave him.
-----
the brother said it [i saw it after i posted mine]
would you translate
hijrah as 'flight' [as the orientalists do]
or ummi as 'illiterate' as the wahabis do?
or wafat, tuwuffiya, maata, as 'died', 'dead' 'death'
or "Dallan" in surah Duhaa as 'misguided' 'astray'
or "dhanb" in the first verses of surah fat'H as: "sin"
but certainly, if you value your nafs above the respect that should be accorded to RasulALlah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, you can continue to call us names, and even thrown tantrums:
how is this different to a murtad's vid that was posted a while ago, who left islam because something was not agreeable to his nafs?
and who cares? may dust fill your face.
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sahabah used a word in good intention, and they were commanded to use something else. that is the adab of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. we ask Allah ta'ala to forgive our lapses and to be mindful of the adab of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
qadi iyad:
Last edited by a moderator:
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
The problem in your dishonesty is that you leave out what was used in Sheikh Abdul Haqq Muhaddith Dehlavi text in farsi and in our urdu books where it itaab means as such, and itaab does not contradict what I said.
Rather as Sheikh Abdul Haqq Muhaddith Dehlavi stated himself with sareeh bayan what I told whas absolutely in line with creed of Ahlus Sunnah, it is not considered as Suu Adab but Shaan. Its you idiots who make this a matter of blaspheme! and a reason to do bad dua, over matters which don't go against creed after Ahlus-Sunnah rather was and is stated by noble imams. It only shows how ignorant you people are and mutaassib and Takfiri way you people think.
I answered according to the question and my answer is correct if it was said with the intend to denigrate it will render him Kafir if based on Akhbaar he should have limited to lessons and Ilm only. But the wordings are acceptable since its Shaan of the Prophets to be reprimanded, itaab Kare as Sheikh Abdul Haqq uses, by Allah Ta'ala over such matters, its His Haqq.
But the notion that Allah can reprimand his Beloved is our sunni creed be it reprimand, rebuke or lovely approach. Even if the wording did not match exactly, will not change this creed, at highest you can say wrong choice of words. But brelwi clowns will go Takfiri Muta'asib style doing bad dua. And over what? Something which isn't Qat'i but based on an imams interpretation which is also in line of yhe sunni creed?
BTW Sheikh Abdul Haqq used the word in farsi as well and in our sunni books itaab as well in urdu it means exactly what I said.
Just for your stupid brain ln the passage of ibn taymiyyah is about calling with the name not about reprimanding. But again in other Akhbaar the Holy Prophet is called with his name, but according to you clowns those people are then being blasphemers, Suu Adab, and worthy of bad dua because Allah Ta'ala acted like a God and treated His noble Prophet as his Magluq???
And reprimanding in this matter is Shaan not Suu Adab. So even how severe it may or less be it will only show his Shaan not blasphemy. But you people are changing the rules for Allah, if Allah does this with the Holy Prophet its blasphemy and su Adab!
You can delete my account, dont want ever to do with you dishonest Takfiri jahil clowns.
At least I know my creed well and what is considered Kufr, Suu Adab and blasphemy. BTW I am not angry this isnt the first time I encountered a Takfiri brelwi. The right approach with yhem is just to leave them behind they will die out. No one is listening to you people anyways. Allah has enough other servants who represent Ahmad Rida in the right way.
Rather as Sheikh Abdul Haqq Muhaddith Dehlavi stated himself with sareeh bayan what I told whas absolutely in line with creed of Ahlus Sunnah, it is not considered as Suu Adab but Shaan. Its you idiots who make this a matter of blaspheme! and a reason to do bad dua, over matters which don't go against creed after Ahlus-Sunnah rather was and is stated by noble imams. It only shows how ignorant you people are and mutaassib and Takfiri way you people think.
I answered according to the question and my answer is correct if it was said with the intend to denigrate it will render him Kafir if based on Akhbaar he should have limited to lessons and Ilm only. But the wordings are acceptable since its Shaan of the Prophets to be reprimanded, itaab Kare as Sheikh Abdul Haqq uses, by Allah Ta'ala over such matters, its His Haqq.
But the notion that Allah can reprimand his Beloved is our sunni creed be it reprimand, rebuke or lovely approach. Even if the wording did not match exactly, will not change this creed, at highest you can say wrong choice of words. But brelwi clowns will go Takfiri Muta'asib style doing bad dua. And over what? Something which isn't Qat'i but based on an imams interpretation which is also in line of yhe sunni creed?
BTW Sheikh Abdul Haqq used the word in farsi as well and in our sunni books itaab as well in urdu it means exactly what I said.
Just for your stupid brain ln the passage of ibn taymiyyah is about calling with the name not about reprimanding. But again in other Akhbaar the Holy Prophet is called with his name, but according to you clowns those people are then being blasphemers, Suu Adab, and worthy of bad dua because Allah Ta'ala acted like a God and treated His noble Prophet as his Magluq???
And reprimanding in this matter is Shaan not Suu Adab. So even how severe it may or less be it will only show his Shaan not blasphemy. But you people are changing the rules for Allah, if Allah does this with the Holy Prophet its blasphemy and su Adab!
You can delete my account, dont want ever to do with you dishonest Takfiri jahil clowns.
At least I know my creed well and what is considered Kufr, Suu Adab and blasphemy. BTW I am not angry this isnt the first time I encountered a Takfiri brelwi. The right approach with yhem is just to leave them behind they will die out. No one is listening to you people anyways. Allah has enough other servants who represent Ahmad Rida in the right way.
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
Itaab has those meanings in Arabic as well just only if your honest you will find it. Takfiri mullahs.
Mohamed shaksi
New Member
Itaab has those meanings in Arabic as well just only if your honest you will find it. Takfiri mullahs.
imam Suyuti used the very same explanation, and even the Holy Prophet said: "Marhaba bi man Atabani fihi Rabbi"! It only shows that the creed is how I stated.
In other Tafaseer.
فأمر الله تعالى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ألا يخص بالإنذار أحدا، بل يساوي فيه
You will find the same explanation almost everywhere, here you must do bad dua too, because he said فأمر، and this is not the same word like loving approach?
And even the poets sheer does not contradict what I said rather its only emphasizes what I said.
imam Suyuti used the very same explanation, and even the Holy Prophet said: "Marhaba bi man Atabani fihi Rabbi"! It only shows that the creed is how I stated.
In other Tafaseer.
فأمر الله تعالى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ألا يخص بالإنذار أحدا، بل يساوي فيه
You will find the same explanation almost everywhere, here you must do bad dua too, because he said فأمر، and this is not the same word like loving approach?
And even the poets sheer does not contradict what I said rather its only emphasizes what I said.
basirqadri786
Banned
Mohamed Shaksi, it doesn't matter the names, if it is Abdul Haqq Dahlawi or anyone else. Anyone who speaks in disparaging manner addressing poorly or ill mannered, is kafir . This is ijma of the ummah. Do you disagree on this ?
Remember Pir Karam Ali Shah and his views on Deobandis !!!!!!!
Remember Pir Karam Ali Shah and his views on Deobandis !!!!!!!
abu Hasan
Administrator
"your dishonesty"
"Its you idiots"
"how ignorant you people are"
"and mutaassib"
"and Takfiri way you people think."
"But brelwi clowns will go"
"Takfiri Muta'asib style"
"Just for your stupid brain"
"but according to you clowns"
"you dishonest Takfiri jahil clowns."
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BTW, you didn't understand ANYTHING; neither from my previous post, nor from my latest post.
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ghussa - ghazab - qahr - narazgi; and itaab e ilaahi means: "khuda ka qahr" "aafat e samawi" "ghazab e ilahi" "khuda ki maar"
so you consider all this permissible because shah abdul Haqq sahib used 'itaab'. and you would look up an urdu/farsi dictionary and translate from urdu/farsi to english whatever is suitable. bravo!
fayruz al-lughat:
perhaps you would consider ghalib's usage:
laakhoN lagaa'v ek churaana nigaah ka
laakhoN banaa'v ek bigaDna itaab meiN
even a farsi dictionary says: ghiyas v1/p281
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but then, if you are more interested in vindicating self than learning adab - go your way.
and dust in your boorish face!
"Its you idiots"
"how ignorant you people are"
"and mutaassib"
"and Takfiri way you people think."
"But brelwi clowns will go"
"Takfiri Muta'asib style"
"Just for your stupid brain"
"but according to you clowns"
"you dishonest Takfiri jahil clowns."
of course, not.
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BTW, you didn't understand ANYTHING; neither from my previous post, nor from my latest post.
he did not say reprimand.
yes, you need to read again. it is something to do with "did not happen".
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so you will find the worst connotation and not the best? sub'HanAllah.
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so you are fine with translating according to your 'urdu books'? according to your principles, it is permissible to use itaab in the following meanings:
ghussa - ghazab - qahr - narazgi; and itaab e ilaahi means: "khuda ka qahr" "aafat e samawi" "ghazab e ilahi" "khuda ki maar"
so you consider all this permissible because shah abdul Haqq sahib used 'itaab'. and you would look up an urdu/farsi dictionary and translate from urdu/farsi to english whatever is suitable. bravo!
fayruz al-lughat:
perhaps you would consider ghalib's usage:
laakhoN lagaa'v ek churaana nigaah ka
laakhoN banaa'v ek bigaDna itaab meiN
even a farsi dictionary says: ghiyas v1/p281
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but then, if you are more interested in vindicating self than learning adab - go your way.
and dust in your boorish face!