aap, tum, tu, tera
- Thread starter Aqdas
- Start date
ive heard in gatherings of the custodians of eidgah sharif that when 'chamak tujsay paatay hain' (kalam of ala hazrat) is read they change the words 'tu zinda hain WaAllah' into 'Aap zinda hain waAllah'
i asked one of their mureeds why they changed it they said it sounds more respectful. not knowing that it was ala hazrat who taught us love of the Messenger of Allah sal'lallaa'hu'alayhi'wasallam
i asked one of their mureeds why they changed it they said it sounds more respectful. not knowing that it was ala hazrat who taught us love of the Messenger of Allah sal'lallaa'hu'alayhi'wasallam
Does it have to do with the fact that we refer to Allah ﷻ in the singular form because of his unity, likewise using tu for Nabi e Pak ﷺ mimics that same notion of (uniqueness, and singularity).
Allah Knows best ﷺ
Allah Knows best ﷺ
abu Hasan
Administrator
who is it? if they are not native urdu speakers, nor authorities on the language, they can be safely ignored.
ye hamari zaban hai pyare!
abu Hasan
Administrator
don't complicate things.
tu, tum, tera, tujh in poetry, is used as a term of respect with love - anyone who considers it disrespectful is ignorant of the language.
those of us who speak/read urdu as a mother tongue understand certain things instinctively without a requiring a research paper to explain the usage.
i hope people do not begin questioning whether the following lines are rational (does arsh have a head and a mind and hence aql?):
arsh ki aql dang hai, charkh meiN aasman hai
or accuse ulama of promoting cannibalism:
kabab e aahu mein bhi na paaya maza jo dil ke kabab mein hai
or confidently assert that sunni ulama encourage muslims to become acrobats before proceeding to madinah:
haram ki zameeN aur qadam rakh ke chalna?
arey sar ka mauqa hai o jaane waley
arey sar ka mauqa hai o jaane waley
---
get over it. if your mind is incapable of appreciating poetry, stick to bland prose. don't try to measure the fragrance of flowers in SI units.
Unbeknown
sunniport user
indeed!
the context is what makes the difference. imho, addressing thus introduces a degree of abstraction - and while there is a sense of belonging, the aloofness preponderates whereas in the usages like 'aap', 'aapka' etc. it's vice-versa. So the usage will vary with the kayfiyah which the verses are trying to convey.
thus,
aap se karta hai fariyad ke ya shah-e-rusul
banda bekas hai shaha raham me waqfa kya hai
ab koi dam me giraftare bala hota hun
aap aajaye aaqa kya khauf hai khatka kya hai
and
lo wo aaya mera haami lo wo aaya mera haami...
I also think, this is somewhat akin to the usages of both "I" and "We" in the qur'an al-kareem.
and Allah ta'ala knows best.
the context is what makes the difference. imho, addressing thus introduces a degree of abstraction - and while there is a sense of belonging, the aloofness preponderates whereas in the usages like 'aap', 'aapka' etc. it's vice-versa. So the usage will vary with the kayfiyah which the verses are trying to convey.
thus,
aap se karta hai fariyad ke ya shah-e-rusul
banda bekas hai shaha raham me waqfa kya hai
ab koi dam me giraftare bala hota hun
aap aajaye aaqa kya khauf hai khatka kya hai
and
lo wo aaya mera haami lo wo aaya mera haami...
I also think, this is somewhat akin to the usages of both "I" and "We" in the qur'an al-kareem.
and Allah ta'ala knows best.
The eidgah pirs. We'd ignore but they have a large Sunni following and are creating hatred for Alahazrat by objecting to his poems.
abu Hasan
Administrator
spitting at the sun?
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
"aap" is not used for Allah ta'ala also - does it mean that "tu" is disrespectful for HIM?
replacing 'tu" with "aap" actually takes away the beauty of the kalaam.
reminds me of the simple rule: you need to know more if you want to check or criticize someone else's work. the student does not check his teachers work, does he??
these guys need to have more Ishq of Allah's prophet, or need to know more Urdu or the rules of poetry than Ala Hazrat, to be able to even comment on his works.
replacing 'tu" with "aap" actually takes away the beauty of the kalaam.
reminds me of the simple rule: you need to know more if you want to check or criticize someone else's work. the student does not check his teachers work, does he??
these guys need to have more Ishq of Allah's prophet, or need to know more Urdu or the rules of poetry than Ala Hazrat, to be able to even comment on his works.
the verse is about 20th century, however it perfectly befits the the imbeciles of this century too. i don't know who wrote it but with a slight modification by a brother we can read it this way without disturbing the meter
اکیسویں صدی کا عجوبہ بھی دیکھيے
قطرہ اچھل رہا ہے سمندر کے سامنے
ikisween sadi ka a'juba bhi daikhiyay
qatrah uchal raha hay samandar kay saamnay
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
some confusion here - Peer Naseeruddin was from Golra shareef, not Eidgah shareef.
The present sajjadah nasheen at Eidgah is Peer Naqeeb urRehman sahab.
abu Hasan
Administrator
come to think of it.
i was telling a brother that alahazrat has reached such a high position in the urdu language, that anything he writes becomes the standard.
and his usage is the yardstick to evaluate all others.
----
it is a shame that poets - fussaq and irreligious men (fayz anyone?) are spoken highly for their 'art' and eloquence; whereas alahazrat's writing is largely ignored and not even considered as literary masterpiece, even though his urdu is head and shoulders above all of the so called 'masters of urdu'.
jis samt aa gaye ho, sikkey biTha' diye hain!
sub'HanAllah.
i was telling a brother that alahazrat has reached such a high position in the urdu language, that anything he writes becomes the standard.
and his usage is the yardstick to evaluate all others.
----
it is a shame that poets - fussaq and irreligious men (fayz anyone?) are spoken highly for their 'art' and eloquence; whereas alahazrat's writing is largely ignored and not even considered as literary masterpiece, even though his urdu is head and shoulders above all of the so called 'masters of urdu'.
jis samt aa gaye ho, sikkey biTha' diye hain!
sub'HanAllah.