la madhabiyyah vs Barelvis, Who forms the bigger threat to Shariah

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Layman

As Salamu Alaikum

With regards to a claim that Abandoning the madhabs is the biggest bid'a threatening the Sharia, I do not know how other Ahlus Sunnah communities are fairing but I do not regard my own community as being particularly interested in Shariah so the question is justified


Who forms the bigger threat?
 
of-course, this is not a bait.

so brothers, don't misunderstand layman and jump the gun - he has our best interests at heart. after-all he is a self-avowed barelvi, so that's that. can't mean nothing evil.

go ahead hazart, please propound to us your profound observations and confound our senses with your extraordinarily lay genius.


G.P.S*:
I do not know how other Ahlus Sunnah communities are fairing

me neither but cornish fairings taste rather good. ever tasted one? just asking...



*grand post script.
 
Shaykh sa'di says

خشت اول چوں نہد معمار کج
تا ثریا مے رود دیوار کج


If a builder lays the first brick bent
then the entire wall will rise slanted to the skies.

So dear layman you need to lay your first stone, to build up your knowledge, straight.
 
Brothers, so the answer is la madhabiyyah are a bigger threat because.....
1) they have rejected well researched positions?
2) they formed a new sect so they are ahul bidah anyway, nothing that comes from them is good?
3) they dont even talk about shariah?
4) What they call to is not shariah?


Or are you saying the question is out of question and anybody who dares ask it is going to be consumed


Please brothers no fitna, Shaykh Ramadan Buti is quoted as saying la madhabiyyah are biggest threat to Shariah...hence it'd be nice to know how
 
Let's say la madhabiyyah are not the biggest threat, tahir ul qadri is in our time; so, would you choose la madhabiyyah over ASWJ?
Brother its not about choosing. Its just a discussion on the subject.

I dont envisage changing sects. Shaykh Asrar says we need to go solo to an extent, not blindfollow. That is why i'm free thinking


Do you have any honest reflections on topic?
 
Shaykh Ramadan Buti is quoted as saying la madhabiyyah are biggest threat to Shariah
did you read that book by shaykh buti?

if you cannot read arabic, you can buy an english translation [link of greedypubs removed] (yes, they are the same guys who made a DMCA complaint against us and took us down for a PDF of that book posted on our site by a user).

Brothers, so the answer is la madhabiyyah are a bigger threat because.....
whose answers are these that you want us to choose? don't you have a NOTA option?
why don't you read sh. buti's book? greedypubs will be delighted to have a customer.

NOTE: WE DON'T GET COMMISSION FROM greedypubs FOR LINKING THAT BOOK.
UPDATE: (9sep2024): greedypubs takes down our site without any courtesy. if copyrighted material was posted, they could at least inform us - we would remove immediately. but then. they need the dollars for their shallow graves.
 
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looking at history of the past 100 years,* one can safely conclude that:
almost all the terrorist organisations in the world using muslim names sprouted from la madh'habiyyah ideology.

la madh'habiyyah = anarchy.

*you can go back 200 years to shaykh najdi's time. it is the same thing. back then, instead of a firm steel chain, the wahabi leaders held to orthodox islam by a rough rope. nowadays, they connect only with fine silk threads.
 
...to be fair... a sleight of hand there...Shaykh Asrar talks against "blind following" in aqeeda..not in the schools of fiqh..this is often an "on purpose" misquote from the ghair muqallids..like when they misquote Imam Al Azams "throw my opinion to the wall" (if you find it going against Quran and Sunnah)...the noble Imam wasn't empowering every muslim to "go it alone" but talking to mujtahid ulema and real students of the Deen..but it's used by the ghair muqallids as a proof against taqleed

...they are the most dangerous because, as can be seen, their wanton irreligiousness has allowed them to throw out following of the ijtihaad of qualified ulema and also to discard the Ashari/Maturidi schools of belief..and have filled the huge vacuum left with their ignorant and deviant pronouncements.

...because they are not shia...a lot of sunnis consider them, by default, sunni..which means their maslak is somehow valid..which is why they are so dangerous.

...and also if you check with Ulema like Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan all you will find is a call for Shariah to be implemented.
 
As Salamu Alaikum

With regards to a claim that Abandoning the madhabs is the biggest bid'a threatening the Sharia, I do not know how other Ahlus Sunnah communities are fairing but I do not regard my own community as being particularly interested in Shariah so the question is justified


Who forms the bigger threat?
Apples and oranges.

- leaving taqlid is an attack on the shariah.
- Muslims who don't practice are sinners.

It's a bit like these two people:

1. Doesn't pray because he doesn't consider it fard. He's a kafir.

2. Doesn't pray out of laziness but agrees on its being fard. He's a major sinner but not an innovator or kafir.

Who's worse?

---
So, yes, it's a sleight of hand. It's comparing innovation to being sinful. No comparison.
 
the question 'la madh'habiyyah vs. barelwis (meaning ahl al-sunnah, aka sufis in the arab world).' who forms the bigger threat to shariah?" is a loaded question.

it assumes that barelwis are a threat to shariah, and la madh'habiyyah as well. the question asks which is bigger.

---
barelwis AKA sunnis or sufis, i.e. ahl al-sunnah are the followers and upholders of shariah, as done by our elders for the past 1400+ years. after the 5th century, almost every major imam followed a madh'hab. even those claimed to be mujtahid muTlaq such as ibn taymiyyah belonged to a madh'hab. ibn taymiyyah in his works mentions 'the four madh'habs' often.

---
as for la madh'habiyyah, they are biggest threat to islam because they encourage free thinking without any knowledge or reflection. which is worse than atheist and mulHid freethinking.

free-thinking, admired in the west, and which is fashionable nowadays isn't entirely free. they expect it to be within the bounds of their frames of references with regards to their own definitions of humanity, justice, fairness and what they deem to be independent of authority and purely according to what they admit as reason.

a freethinker will not admit the opinion of an illiterate in issues related to knowledge, and particularly in issues that require domain knowledge. for example, which court would admit an illiterate or even a college dropout to represent someone in court? representing oneself is also not without danger:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/law-court-representation-barristers

as the lawyer in the above article says:

Unless you find yourself in the Arctic wilds with an enlarged appendix, or trapped beneath a boulder in a national park, you wouldn't operate on yourself with a Swiss pocket knife, however well you whittle a stick or hold your cutlery. Why would you then stand up in a court of law, however eloquent you are, or disarmingly amusing in dinner-table conversation, and conduct your own representation in a trial of real importance?

something we have been saying for ages. one cannot turn up with a bunch of law books - well, even a graduate with a degree in law cannot represent someone until they obtain a license. check this opinion:


and here from the law dictionary:


the relevant passage that every moron who calls himself a laa-madh'habi should read and shudder is highlighted below:

Unfortunately, there are no circumstances under which you'll be able to represent your accused acquaintance without first passing the bar exam in your state. In fact, individuals who have not been admitted to a state bar are explicitly banned from practicing law within that jurisdiction. This prohibition extends to laypeople as well as bar-certified lawyers from other areas. Despite his or her obvious legal experience, there is no guarantee that a seasoned lawyer who has been cleared to practice law in Oregon will be permitted to represent a client who stands trial in Texas. Although many states have "reciprocal" arrangements that permit lawyers with "outside experience" to practice law within their borders, this occurs on a case-by-case basis. Further, non-lawyers are not permitted to take advantage of such arrangements.

In fact, practicing law without a bar license is a crime. If you attempt to represent an acquaintance without a license, you'll probably find yourself in one of two unpleasant situations.

----
what about medicine? check: http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/practicing-medicine-without-a-license.htm

this wikipedia article is a good start to identify professions that require licenses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practicing_without_a_license


would you hire a person with no previous plumbing experience to fix your toilet? would you allow a technician without basic knowledge of receivables/payables and debit/credit to manage the accounts of a company? would you ask a delivery boy, who has experience in only riding motorcylcles to drive the bus or run your trains? would you ask a chartered accountant without a pilots license to fly the commercial airliner, even if he has thousands of hours clocked on a flight simulator?

but hey, no!

for the qur'an and hadith - it is open. anyone can interpret it. attend a nouman ali khan course for a few months and become capable of doing tafsir! even if prominent mufassirin spent a lifetime mastering two dozen subjects before penning a translation or tafsir. but morphology and grammar is sufficient for a translation and tafsir. laa Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.

a taxi driver who cannot speak his mother tongue properly, or a tea-vendor incapable of pronouncing words in his mother tongue, can become an expert in the qur'an and deriving aHkam from qur'an and hadith, without any previous training. a teacher who spent the better part of his life in worldly activities and after retirement found religion (as he has nothing better to do) suddenly becomes an expert in doling out ahkam and commenting on opinions of experts.

abu hanifa* was a man, and i am a man. he had an opinion and so do i.

*raHimahullah
---
essentially la-madh'habi is the islamic equivalent of practising law without a license. it is a crime.


Allah ta'ala knows best.
 
@Layman

Are you a troll? You keep bringing up shaykh asrar here and there and I think maybe it's to create negativity for him.

Hmm...
I might qualify as a troll tbh (my posts are against the flow)
...but Shaykh Asrar teaches us, so positivity or negativity after what he teaches is part of having genuinely taken his efforts seriously. Nothing wrong with this

Shaykh Asrar has embarked on 'reform' of some aspects of how we view the deen. This is what i can gather from his posts


Are you from Manchester, njm? I'll come say salam next time I visit so you can see the actual person behind the posts
 
Apples and oranges.

- leaving taqlid is an attack on the shariah.
- Muslims who don't practice are sinners.

It's a bit like these two people:

1. Doesn't pray because he doesn't consider it fard. He's a kafir.

2. Doesn't pray out of laziness but agrees on its being fard. He's a major sinner but not an innovator or kafir.

Who's worse?

---
So, yes, it's a sleight of hand. It's comparing innovation to being sinful. No comparison.
What sleight of hand? I don't understand
 
i apologise on behalf of brothers who accused you of sleight of hand. it would require intelligence and knowledge to do so, and you seem to possess neither.
I possess below average intelligence and just above the average knowledge for a layman. Can't the sleight of hand be explained to me with a little bit of brotherly patience and wisdom?

I am not a student of Shaykh Asrar but he, like other speakers, teach through their talks. Shaykh Asrar said our awaam have fallen pray to fake peers, heretical practices and he said scholars can't speak because their livelihood depends on the fake peers.

So we have the awaam and scholarly classes are both implicated as being threats to the Shariah. This is just one example

Hence i'll put it you, and other brothers, who accused me of sleight of hand or asking loaded question that the question is perfectly valid to be asked

You have posted excellent information about the problems with la madhabiyyah shariah and the incorrectness of how it is derived, we need you to look at the reality of Sunnis

Then you can answer the question with a conclusion


I am not saying the answer is sunnis represent a bigger threat, it is just a question

JazakAllahu Khairan
 
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I possess below average intelligence and just above the average knowledge for a layman. Can't the sleight of hand be explained to me with a little bit of brotherly patience and wisdom?

I am not a student of Shaykh Asrar but he, like other speakers, teach through their talks. Shaykh Asrar said our awaam have fallen pray to fake peers, heretical practices and he said scholars can't speak because their livelihood depends on the fake peers.

So we have the awaam and scholarly classes are both implicated as being threats to the Shariah. This is just one example

Hence i'll put it you, and other brothers, who accused me of sleight of hand or asking loaded question that the question is perfectly valid to be asked

You have posted excellent information about the problems with la madhabiyyah shariah and the incorrectness of how it is derived, we need you to look at the reality of Sunnis

Then you can answer the question with a conclusion


I am not saying the answer is sunnis represent a bigger threat, it is just a question

JazakAllahu Khairan

don't bother.

the Sunnis (ahle Sunnah) are the saved sect, and they will always remain on the truth; they will always prevail, with Allah's grace. this nation will never unite on error; even if a few learned men fall prey to worldly matters, there will always be upright, brave and erudite scholars who will lead this nation; and among such great men, Allah ta'ala sends one Reviver, every one hundred years.

it is the others, the la-madhabiyah, and the sulleh kullis, the misguided, that are the threats to religion.
 
with a little bit of brotherly patience and wisdom?
for those who ask with humility and as a learner. those with arrogance (even if they don't realise it) and talk condescendingly, they will be treated as they should.

those who are laymen have no business discussing topics above their level. learn aqidah and basic fiqh - read books of tasawwuf. that suffices for you. if you have a specific question, ask in the manner of a seeker. don't proffer your opinions and ask us to validate them.
 
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