abu Hasan
Administrator
yes, what about post 1?
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L
Layman
Basically the issue is acceptability of leaving the phone on during prayer for Imams
I can try to give my own sharayi guesses but the initial purpose of the thread is for someone more knowledgeable to that
I hope that makes sense
L
Layman
post 1 describes the situations (that need shari approval/disapproval/condemnation)
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
it is human nature to forget; in fact, some scholars say the word Insaan is also derived from the word NaSeYa (to forget).
keep a good opinion about others (husn e zann); and do not bother about every person's actions; we do not know their intentions, nor are we commanded to delve into it to find out.
as far as the nuisance factor is concerned, each one is responsible for not causing any sort of chaos or distraction in the mosque. this general rule applies to all.
رَبَّنَا لَا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِن نَّسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا ۚ
“Our Lord! Do not seize us if we forget or are mistaken;
“Our Lord! Do not seize us if we forget or are mistaken;
keep a good opinion about others (husn e zann); and do not bother about every person's actions; we do not know their intentions, nor are we commanded to delve into it to find out.
as far as the nuisance factor is concerned, each one is responsible for not causing any sort of chaos or distraction in the mosque. this general rule applies to all.
L
Layman
Yes Brother, what an excellent post
Certainly the case for 1) Guy 1's phone rings whilst in standing position, he takes one hand off, the left hand, and turns phone ringtone off by pressing a button on the phone through pressure on pocket outer garment. (Could be a one off, don't really know him)
Can't go any further with this Imam, otherwise we'd be guilty of not having husn e zann
brother the other case is different, he is doing it on purpose and regularly.
Can you have a look at this too:
2) Guy 2's phone is not usually turned off or put into silent for prayer except for Juma, his phone has rung before but this particular day phone rings just before iqamat. He looks at phone and rejects the call, near end of prayer it rings again. He says salam to end prayer and takes phone out, rejects the call, throws the phone on the ground in front, makes dua, picks his phone up and vacates the prayer hall. He never did answer it, just rejected the calls
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
the guy in the second case seems to be more forgetful, that's all. if he does not put his mobile on silent ON PURPOSE, then he is guilty of poor etiquette.
L
Layman
Yeah i understand, I suppose this is why after a while I always go back to the place. (there is other etiquette issues which are 50/50 whether due to shear disrespect for prayer, Mosque and people)
This time the phone call before he ordered iqamat really got to me because he left it to ring again if someone called, and he never answered the calls so 'no vital importance for deen reasons' could be the cause.
Ok thank you, it is true he is more forgetful (done more sajda of forgetfulness behind him then heard about its rulings)
And you are right that we can not really say too much due to the rules upon us
For the future, in your opinion, shall i pray alone rather then pray at this Mosque or shall i go to the one prayer where this Mosque offer a later jamaat if i miss jamaat at other Mosques?
You are asking for a fatwa, why don't you go to a mufti?
L
Layman
It says in your Opinion.
I dont meet regularly any reliable muftis. Also when i do they have their life to live.
But i have access to a brother whom i trust who knows about these rulings with great detail from published books
abu Hasan
Administrator
why don't you meet them when they can answer you?
L
Layman
Where is that, there isnt such majlis that i know of. Never even been to q&a
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
call the Dar ul Ifta run by Mufti Sham ul Huda sahab - I think it is in London;
or just send a question to http://www.seekerspath.co.uk/ask-your-question/
in both cases, you can prefer to remain anonymous.
L
Layman
thanks, I thought that site stopped answering. Is it running again?
Aqib alQadri
sunniport user
L
Layman
I initially missed this post. Its good to see some words of condemnation.I don't know about UK, but in Pakistan in many masajid of ASWJ the imam himself asks people to turn off their cell phones. it is obvious that they either don't bring their phones or switch them off before coming into the masjid; because I have never heard phones of the aimah ringing. it is people who forget or even arrogantly don't switch off their phones after reminding of the imam.
regardless how big or small (in status) that imam is, it is an individual's act. do not generalize it, otherwise prove that all ASWJ imams do this.
it does not have any effect on iqamah, or jama'ah. ideally, phones should be put on vibration, silent, or switched off, regardless of the tune - Islamic or un-Islamic. if it is un-islamic, his phone rings often, then it is a shame for the imam. A mufti will tell you the ruling about such an imam, so consult a mufti. I would avoid praying behind such an imam because of his repeated fisq.
he should have switched off his phone when it rang the first time, so it is a mistake indeed. but, you can also find an excuse for him; for example, the call was from someone who would have known that the imam was in prayer, and when he rejected the call then the caller should have waited for him to ring back.
there is a difference of opinion among ulama whether a person, whose phone is ringing, can stop the ringtone with a little effort (amal e khafif) or not.
a) he should/must if he can do it with little effort( amal e khafif); otherwise he should quit his prayer and stop the tune (music) to maintain the adab of masjid and peace of other people in jama'ah.
b) other ulama say that it is amal e kathir; therefore, he should not do it. also, there is no effect on the prayer of others because of this sound, though it is against the adab of masjid.
again a mufti will tell you whether the salah is valid or not. however, according to the above opinion, salah will be valid especially if he had recited tashahud (but, please confirm from a mufti, and I will too ask, inshaAllah)
as I said above, he was expecting the caller to know that he was in prayer.
and as you said that he is a big name, then that imam should act like an elder scholar, and switch off his phone.
having said the above, explain to me what it has to do with ASWJ? your honest reflection, please
Allah Ta'ala knows best.
This was the only thing on which i can say i disagree with you. The vibrate function is also a distraction and worthy of condemnation.
nothing except ASWJ is lauding such people. You are right imam should at least act like an elder scholar and switch off his phone although ideally he shouldn't be acting at all. A lauded personality, teacher and 'alim' of ASWJ should be genuinehaving said the above, explain to me what it has to do with ASWJ? your honest reflection, please
I agree, you are right. I'll just avoid the the imam from now on.
L
Layman
Brother it being unislamic is not actually up for genuine discussion. It is Unislamicyou are not good at reading, I said
such as music, songs etc.
and the situation is like this
[] it is un-islamic, his phone rings often, then it is a shame for the imam. A mufti will tell you the ruling about such an imam, so consult a mufti. I would avoid praying behind such an imam because of his repeated fisq.
What did you mean? Only songs and music! ?
as I said you are not good at reading, I don't know what to say about your comprehension.
from where did you get it? or have you graduated to a mufti last night?
L
Layman
I get it from the other Mosques where phone tones and vibrates are not allowed and talks where adab/gustakhi of the prayer has been taught to us
What did you mean? That you'd avoid prayer behined the imam only if the mufti said so? Is that what you meant or did you say that you wouldn't if Music, songs were the ringtone?
abu Hasan
Administrator
i asked you pointed questions which you ignored to wallow in your puddle of vagueness.
did any sunni scholar praise an imam for carrying a phone during namaz and that it rings often?
"oh, that imam. i admire him. you know every namaz, his phone rings WOW! and at high decibel..OOOH!"
who said this and when?
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