Coronavirus and jumu'ah
- Thread starter Aqdas
- Start date
https://www.facebook.com/100012057638493/posts/889618741450039/?d=n
This Pakistani mufti sahib says people are no longer liable for missing jama3at since now the government has mandated it.
Muneebur Rehman sahib should issue a new video in light of this development - government stipulation.
Abdun Nabi Hameedi sahib's FatwA in a previous post also says that if the south African government stipulates, then they can stop congregational prayers (paraphrased in my words).
This Pakistani mufti sahib says people are no longer liable for missing jama3at since now the government has mandated it.
Muneebur Rehman sahib should issue a new video in light of this development - government stipulation.
Abdun Nabi Hameedi sahib's FatwA in a previous post also says that if the south African government stipulates, then they can stop congregational prayers (paraphrased in my words).
Tālib ul-Haq
sunniport user
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SaadSohail
sunniport user
Dear @Umar99
Regarding the video you posted,
I wanted to ask you something:
Is the respected scholar in the video denying the a)"correlation" between the "Infected person" and "non-infected person" or the b) "causation"?
If it's causation, then it is indeed Allah (swt) who brings everything into existence and created causes have no intrinsic power to produce the created effects. This is the belief of the muslims.
Or is he denying the correlation as well?
By correlation I mean "You bring a hand towards the fire, you "will" feel the heat." So heat is the correlation of the fire but it is not caused by fire. It is Allah (swt) who created the fire, the burning, heat ,the smoke and everything.
So is he denying the correlation between "infected person" and "non-infected person" as well?
P.S have you read this?
http://www.seekerspath.co.uk/questi...es-hands-what-does-islam-say-about-contagion/
Regarding the video you posted,
I wanted to ask you something:
Is the respected scholar in the video denying the a)"correlation" between the "Infected person" and "non-infected person" or the b) "causation"?
If it's causation, then it is indeed Allah (swt) who brings everything into existence and created causes have no intrinsic power to produce the created effects. This is the belief of the muslims.
Or is he denying the correlation as well?
By correlation I mean "You bring a hand towards the fire, you "will" feel the heat." So heat is the correlation of the fire but it is not caused by fire. It is Allah (swt) who created the fire, the burning, heat ,the smoke and everything.
So is he denying the correlation between "infected person" and "non-infected person" as well?
P.S have you read this?
http://www.seekerspath.co.uk/questi...es-hands-what-does-islam-say-about-contagion/
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SaadSohail
sunniport user
@Umar99
Having said that (please read the previous reply),
Since it is logically possible (but normally impossible) to feel sensations of heat in the hand without coming into contact with fire (i.e. by Allah (swt) creating sensations of heat in the hand without prior correlating event i.e. the contact with fire), would any muslim put his hand in the fire, all the while believing that it is merely a correlation and everything happens by the Will of Allah? If this muslim gives the reason that he is exhibiting Tawakul in Allah what would you say about him?
Since it is logically possible (but it has not been seen to be the case uptil now)that a person gets infected with COVID-19 sitting at home, completely isolated and without being in contact with the infected person (i.e. by Allah creating the disease within that person without prior correlating event i.e. the contact with infected person), would a person, believing that it is merely a correlation and everything happens by the will of Allah, stop taking precautions and medical advice under the pretense that this is tawakul. What would you say about him?
P.S this is not an attempt to justify closure of mosques. But to highlight another point of significant importance in terms of aqeedah.
Having said that (please read the previous reply),
Since it is logically possible (but normally impossible) to feel sensations of heat in the hand without coming into contact with fire (i.e. by Allah (swt) creating sensations of heat in the hand without prior correlating event i.e. the contact with fire), would any muslim put his hand in the fire, all the while believing that it is merely a correlation and everything happens by the Will of Allah? If this muslim gives the reason that he is exhibiting Tawakul in Allah what would you say about him?
Since it is logically possible (but it has not been seen to be the case uptil now)that a person gets infected with COVID-19 sitting at home, completely isolated and without being in contact with the infected person (i.e. by Allah creating the disease within that person without prior correlating event i.e. the contact with infected person), would a person, believing that it is merely a correlation and everything happens by the will of Allah, stop taking precautions and medical advice under the pretense that this is tawakul. What would you say about him?
P.S this is not an attempt to justify closure of mosques. But to highlight another point of significant importance in terms of aqeedah.
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This is a deobandi fatwa on the topic, or a summarization of it: https://reliablefatwas.com/2020/03/29/the-pandemic-of-the-year-449-hijri/
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Additionally, aside from and unrelated to the above, saw this on Ali jifry's wall: (didn't check myself yet)
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Additionally, aside from and unrelated to the above, saw this on Ali jifry's wall: (didn't check myself yet)
* قال أمير المؤمنين في الحديث الحافظ ابن حجر العسقلاني رحمه الله:
فليس الدعاءُ برفعِ الوباءِ ممنوعًا ولامصادمًا للمقدور من حيث هو أصلًا، وإنما الاجتماعُ له كما في الاستسقاءِ فبدعةٌ حدثت في الطاعون الكبير (سنة٧٤٩) بدمشق.
فقد قرأت في: (جزء المنبجي) ، بعد إنكاره على جمع الناس في موضع، قال: فصاروا يدعون ويصرخون صُراخًا عاليًا، وذلك لمّا وقع الطاعون بدمشق، فَذَكَرَ أنَّ ذلك حدث سنة ٧٤٩ وخرج الناس إلى الصحراء ومعظمُ أكابرِ البلدِ فدعوا واستغاثوا، فعَظُمَ الطاعونُ بعد ذلك وكَثُرَ وكان قبلَ دعائِهم أخفُّ، ولا شك أنَّ هذا بسبب اختلاط المريض بالصحيح.
قُلْتُ: ووقع هذا في زماننا حين وقع أوَّلُ الطاعونِ بالقاهرة في السابع والعشرين من شهر ربيع الآخَر ، سنة ٨٣٣، فكان عددُ من يموتُ بها دون الأربعين، فخرجوا إلى الصحراء في الرابع من جمادى الأولى بعد أن نودي فيهم بصيام ثلاثة أيامٍ كما في الاستسقاء، واجتمعوا ودعوا وأقاموا ساعةً ثم رجعوا، فما انسلخ الشهر حتى صار عددُ من يموت في كل يومٍ بالقاهرة فوق الألف ثم تزايد، وهذا أيضًا بسبب اختلاط المرضى بالأصحاء وانتشار العدوى بينهم.
إنتهى من كتابه "بذل الماعون".
فليس الدعاءُ برفعِ الوباءِ ممنوعًا ولامصادمًا للمقدور من حيث هو أصلًا، وإنما الاجتماعُ له كما في الاستسقاءِ فبدعةٌ حدثت في الطاعون الكبير (سنة٧٤٩) بدمشق.
فقد قرأت في: (جزء المنبجي) ، بعد إنكاره على جمع الناس في موضع، قال: فصاروا يدعون ويصرخون صُراخًا عاليًا، وذلك لمّا وقع الطاعون بدمشق، فَذَكَرَ أنَّ ذلك حدث سنة ٧٤٩ وخرج الناس إلى الصحراء ومعظمُ أكابرِ البلدِ فدعوا واستغاثوا، فعَظُمَ الطاعونُ بعد ذلك وكَثُرَ وكان قبلَ دعائِهم أخفُّ، ولا شك أنَّ هذا بسبب اختلاط المريض بالصحيح.
قُلْتُ: ووقع هذا في زماننا حين وقع أوَّلُ الطاعونِ بالقاهرة في السابع والعشرين من شهر ربيع الآخَر ، سنة ٨٣٣، فكان عددُ من يموتُ بها دون الأربعين، فخرجوا إلى الصحراء في الرابع من جمادى الأولى بعد أن نودي فيهم بصيام ثلاثة أيامٍ كما في الاستسقاء، واجتمعوا ودعوا وأقاموا ساعةً ثم رجعوا، فما انسلخ الشهر حتى صار عددُ من يموت في كل يومٍ بالقاهرة فوق الألف ثم تزايد، وهذا أيضًا بسبب اختلاط المرضى بالأصحاء وانتشار العدوى بينهم.
إنتهى من كتابه "بذل الماعون".
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SunniRadawi
sunniport user
An article to peruse on the view of Shaykh Ahmed Ghumari on praying Jummuah salaah at home. Pdf link https://tinyurl.com/onlinejumuah-v3
SunniRadawi
sunniport user
A view of Muftis from darul uloom pretoria on praying Salaah at home. View attachement 'Fatwa - Jumuáh Salah at home' or link https://www.facebook.com/676433135769052/posts/2873664596045884/
A fatwa refuting this approved by Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi.
View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/881216442325956/
A further detail on Izn e aam requirement.
View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/896767190770881/
With a live Q&A recording by Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi view link.
An explanation of Mufti Munibur Rahmans statement. View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/893234681124132/
A fatwa refuting this approved by Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi.
View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/881216442325956/
A further detail on Izn e aam requirement.
View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/896767190770881/
With a live Q&A recording by Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi view link.
An explanation of Mufti Munibur Rahmans statement. View link https://www.facebook.com/346473302466942/posts/893234681124132/
Brother are you a real account?
That link asks to select our email IDs. I hope it's not a phishing link.
SunniRadawi
sunniport user
Apologies ill upload the PDF rather. The link may be broken.
SunniRadawi
sunniport user
Shaykh Ninowy discusses his research on online Jummuah & Taraweeh taking from the works of Shaykh Ahmed al Ghumari. Video link
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=245534496500093&id=156792587765185
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=245534496500093&id=156792587765185
SunniRadawi
sunniport user
Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi on praying Eid salaah at home according to hanafi and shafi'i schools.
SunniRadawi
sunniport user
Sunni Ulama council of South Africa on performing Eid salaah at home.
I just stumbled upon this:
http://www.saskatoonmosque.com/
What's a 'Jumah by invitation' supposed to mean? (I don't know which maslak runs this mosque, just came across it)
In Hanafi mazhab it needs izin aam. Not sure about other mazhabs.
I understand the covid situation and government restrictions, so why not just have regular Zuhr?
In fact, even in Muslim countries, I believe some mosques restrict entry to people above 55 yrs (including for Jumah), effectively making it 'by invitation only' once again.
I remember similar masail were raised for Eid prayers too.
What do Sunni ulema say for restrictions on Jumah?
http://www.saskatoonmosque.com/
What's a 'Jumah by invitation' supposed to mean? (I don't know which maslak runs this mosque, just came across it)
In Hanafi mazhab it needs izin aam. Not sure about other mazhabs.
I understand the covid situation and government restrictions, so why not just have regular Zuhr?
In fact, even in Muslim countries, I believe some mosques restrict entry to people above 55 yrs (including for Jumah), effectively making it 'by invitation only' once again.
I remember similar masail were raised for Eid prayers too.
What do Sunni ulema say for restrictions on Jumah?
Bump.
Sorry can my latest thread http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/jumah-and-covid.14626/ be merged here
Sorry can my latest thread http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/jumah-and-covid.14626/ be merged here
Welcome to new age Islam! Notwithstanding the fact that a masjid ceases to be a public place of worship if attendance is restricted.
In UK too, more tech savvy masajids have their own apps where slots need to be booked in advance for jumuah salah. Thankfully, my local masjid is bit tech-retarded in that aspect (although they do have a facebook page, where khutba and waaz are streamed live).
I guess, there will be justification due this uzr and that. So anything goes.
Well plenty of Sunni scholars back home too have called covid an uzr.
We need a new comprehensive list of rulings around this uzr.
Those who believe covid is not an uzr in itself, while they might be helpless against regulatory bodies specially in Darul harb like Europe, (current hindutvawadi) india etc., should at least state why they do not consider covid as a valid uzr to alter any ruling relating to congregational prayers, and that their altered rulings are based on the other uzr of governmental restrictions.
Our muftiyane kiram need to address two uzrs here
1. Covid- those who think covid in and of itself is uzr, even if we were to be in Sher Shah Suri's Delhi, or Fatih Sultan Muhammad's Istanbul
2. Legal stipulations in kafir or semi-Islamic nations- regardless of what we think of covid, we would still be bound by legal restrictions of the land.
My point was that in both uzr cases, is it viable or jaiz to have a Jumah 'by invitation only'? Why not have regular Zuhr? It can be considered as similar to a situation in prison in Darul Islam or Seafarers on perpetual year round travel on sea, till the situation subsides and a vaccine comes out after the US elections.