Tālib ul-Haq
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Answer To Dr Yasir Qadhi On Quran Ahruf and Qira'at
yasir qadhi On Quran Ahruf and Qira'at
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Answer To Dr Yasir Qadhi On Quran Ahruf and Qira'at
abu Hasan
Administrator
yasir qadhi is an idiot. he doesn't know - he is projecting his jahalat on the salaf.
all his blabbering nonsense - is much like this guy's sign interpretation.
absolute gibberish. and because he is a jahil himself, he thinks the world of western academia. if only this idiot had the good fortune of reading a good book on qira'at like al-nashr of imam al-jazary...
----
and our feeling is similar to this guy's who did the reverse interpretation:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...l-sign-language-interpreter-making-it-up-fake
all his blabbering nonsense - is much like this guy's sign interpretation.
absolute gibberish. and because he is a jahil himself, he thinks the world of western academia. if only this idiot had the good fortune of reading a good book on qira'at like al-nashr of imam al-jazary...
----
and our feeling is similar to this guy's who did the reverse interpretation:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...l-sign-language-interpreter-making-it-up-fake
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abu Hasan
Administrator
i was convinced of yasir's jahalat. but i am shocked at the level of his ignorance and shameless capitulation to western propaganda. if he had knowledge, he would
one of the most concise explanations of the aHruf is found in imam al-jazary's al-nashr fi'l qira'at al-ashar (vol.1 p19 onward)
---
https://archive.org/details/35149waq
cover
preface
vol.1
vol.2
one of the most concise explanations of the aHruf is found in imam al-jazary's al-nashr fi'l qira'at al-ashar (vol.1 p19 onward)
---
https://archive.org/details/35149waq
cover
preface
vol.1
vol.2
Tālib ul-Haq
sunniport user
Yasir can be contacted via twitter or Yasir@almaghrib.org
abu Hasan
Administrator
a brother informed me that this interview of yasir has apparently caused a storm in a teacup.
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i came to know that this is a recent clip and i looked up the nearly two hour long video where yasir is mostly talking about himself. he drones about how he is refuted by so many people and how they are fixated on this etc. which is not our concern.
the full clip is here:
---
around 1:24:18 he talks about issues people ask him publicly, which according to him ought to be hushed up. i was annoyed. just because this jahil has no knowledge or ability to think and falls down in utter submission to 'academia', he thinks the world is as impotent as his own pathetic self. man, if you do not have the courage or knowledge to tackle the 'academia' then fall back. others will do their duty. you don't have to grovel in front of them just because they awarded you a doctorate and you want to strut around as an academic.
---
i began transcribing his talk to refute it but it is taking a lot of time. hope someone can help by transcribing the rest. after a couple of minutes he talks about scholars he is working with and mentions akram nadwi. AKRAM NADWI! that shows his level. akram is a jahil who is deprived of barakah (wAllahu a'alam). he does not know what he is talking about and i have demonstrated his ignorance here.
there are a number of errors in that speech and mix-ups. and it is yasir who is unnecessarily complicating this issue by insinuation and later claiming to have a new theory to trump all the old ones. and for this, he gives more credit than is due to 'western academics'.
===================
======
1:24:19
the issue of aHruf, and preservation and qira'aat and the relationships between them. these are very very difficult issues.
and the most advanced of our scholars, they not fully quite certain how to solve all of the unanswered questions in there; ibn al-jazary without doubt the greatest scholar of the qira'at for the last thousand years. ibn al-jazary famously writes: 'i have been thinking and pondering..i have been thinking and pondering about the issue of aHruf and qira'aat for over 35 years [nayfan wa thalatheena sanah...] he said right? and confused and what not and finally this is my response...and seven...
[crosstalk...host: taqdim and ta'khir...]
and by the way... even that seven...all later scholars say that doesn't make any sense. so they kind of dismissed even that...even after 35 years the greatest scholar of qira'aat.
[host: some accepted it. some accepted it.]
it doesn't answer the question ya akhi. anyway.
1:25:13
i don't want to get into that issue. why do i not want to get into that issue. here is the point. these issues should only be discussed amongst people who know what the qira'aat are and [..] understand's somebody's questions related to it.
[host: is what you are saying that the shakk that came or not the shakk part. the crisis that you had was in relation to this question..relation of aHruf and qira'at basically]
no no the crisis i had wasn't anything...the crisis i had was.. well yeah... that was what generated towards the crisis. the crisis was very simple. and by the way this is not a well-known open secret among many muslim graduate students among academics around the world. and this is one traditional understandings of aHruf and qira'at cannot answer some of these pressing questions that are now being poked.
1:26:00
by our people outside...by our academics...by their academics outside our tradition. you see... in our muslim environment..is always some respect we have for the qur'an. we should. a muslim enviroment will push a little bit and then say: khalas sami'na wa at'ana. and that is great alHamdulillah. when you go to academia...you don't have that red line..they're gonna just..you know the the... famous story of emperor with no clothes. they just point out that does not make any sense. well that is not true. and this and that.
1:26:28
and they bring issues which i am not gonna mention explicitly. that you know are true because they are in your own books. they are not inventing anything new. they will bring you riwaayat and they will bring you aathaar and then you add to that very well known issues of... i don't even want to be explicit...and then you bring on top of that makhtootat, and then and then it is very clear to you...to every single... very advanced student and specialist that the standard narrative has holes. that is what i am gonna say.
standard narrative does not answer some very pressing questions. ok. this is what i am gonna say.
1:27:02
[host: i think here..we..]
let me finish...this is a very [...] point let me finish.
and by the way if you are following online media and articles and what not...this is no longer hidden news. more and more professors and academics are writing stuff and is being publicised on twitter. in the last two three years...i have had at least..i would say a dozen people tweet at me like specific articles like how do you answer this. and about you know..ulum al qur'an...about qira'at...about makhtootat...about [...] issues... you know... these are not well known issues among western academia. they are bringing forth issues. their level of knowledge leaps and bounds from what used to be you know a hundred years ago.
and by and large our ulama in the eastern world are not aware...by and large...of what is going on in the west side of things. and they are not answering those questions in a manner that needs to be answered.
this is something all of us...something...in academia...fully acknowledge.
=====
request: can someone please complete the transcription which runs into five more minutes.
----
i came to know that this is a recent clip and i looked up the nearly two hour long video where yasir is mostly talking about himself. he drones about how he is refuted by so many people and how they are fixated on this etc. which is not our concern.
the full clip is here:
---
around 1:24:18 he talks about issues people ask him publicly, which according to him ought to be hushed up. i was annoyed. just because this jahil has no knowledge or ability to think and falls down in utter submission to 'academia', he thinks the world is as impotent as his own pathetic self. man, if you do not have the courage or knowledge to tackle the 'academia' then fall back. others will do their duty. you don't have to grovel in front of them just because they awarded you a doctorate and you want to strut around as an academic.
---
i began transcribing his talk to refute it but it is taking a lot of time. hope someone can help by transcribing the rest. after a couple of minutes he talks about scholars he is working with and mentions akram nadwi. AKRAM NADWI! that shows his level. akram is a jahil who is deprived of barakah (wAllahu a'alam). he does not know what he is talking about and i have demonstrated his ignorance here.
there are a number of errors in that speech and mix-ups. and it is yasir who is unnecessarily complicating this issue by insinuation and later claiming to have a new theory to trump all the old ones. and for this, he gives more credit than is due to 'western academics'.
===================
1:21:43
as for the issue itself. every single student of knowledge knows...who studies the qur'an that the most difficult topics are ahruf al-qira'at. the concept of ahruf, the reality of ahruf, and the relationship of the mus'haf with the ahruf, the preservation of the ahruf, is it one, is it three, is it seven, and the relationship of the qir'at to the ahruf. this is a topic that when you are the beginning beginning student of knowledge...
when you go a little bit more you learn to simply memorise which your teachers say and regurgitate it out. and you don't fully comprehend...
when you do a deep dive is when things get very very awkward and difficult. this isn't new. this is from the time of the saHabah.
in the sahih...or the hasan hadith of ubayy bin ka'ab: the hadith of the aHruf. that when the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam mentioned the hadith of aHruf and different aHruf and whatnot; this is in the version of musnad of ahmad, ubayy bin ka'ab says, authentic hadith; "fa dakhala fee nafsee shakk". in my heart, a doubt came, that i hadn't had about islam since the days of jahiliyyah.
this is not a joke brothers and sisters. the issue of ahruf and qira'at caused confusion to somebody whom the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "if you want to listen to the qur'an directly, listen to ubayy"
ubay is not some... even average sahabi. he is the qari of the qur'an. he is the master. he is who he is. and he [says?]: fa dakhala fee nafsee shakk.
what is all this stuff.
and the Prophet put his hand and then he goes and it all went away. ya akhi you and we, we do not have that blessing. do we. me and you don't have that blessing.
as for the issue itself. every single student of knowledge knows...who studies the qur'an that the most difficult topics are ahruf al-qira'at. the concept of ahruf, the reality of ahruf, and the relationship of the mus'haf with the ahruf, the preservation of the ahruf, is it one, is it three, is it seven, and the relationship of the qir'at to the ahruf. this is a topic that when you are the beginning beginning student of knowledge...
when you go a little bit more you learn to simply memorise which your teachers say and regurgitate it out. and you don't fully comprehend...
when you do a deep dive is when things get very very awkward and difficult. this isn't new. this is from the time of the saHabah.
in the sahih...or the hasan hadith of ubayy bin ka'ab: the hadith of the aHruf. that when the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam mentioned the hadith of aHruf and different aHruf and whatnot; this is in the version of musnad of ahmad, ubayy bin ka'ab says, authentic hadith; "fa dakhala fee nafsee shakk". in my heart, a doubt came, that i hadn't had about islam since the days of jahiliyyah.
this is not a joke brothers and sisters. the issue of ahruf and qira'at caused confusion to somebody whom the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "if you want to listen to the qur'an directly, listen to ubayy"
ubay is not some... even average sahabi. he is the qari of the qur'an. he is the master. he is who he is. and he [says?]: fa dakhala fee nafsee shakk.
what is all this stuff.
and the Prophet put his hand and then he goes and it all went away. ya akhi you and we, we do not have that blessing. do we. me and you don't have that blessing.
======
1:24:19
the issue of aHruf, and preservation and qira'aat and the relationships between them. these are very very difficult issues.
and the most advanced of our scholars, they not fully quite certain how to solve all of the unanswered questions in there; ibn al-jazary without doubt the greatest scholar of the qira'at for the last thousand years. ibn al-jazary famously writes: 'i have been thinking and pondering..i have been thinking and pondering about the issue of aHruf and qira'aat for over 35 years [nayfan wa thalatheena sanah...] he said right? and confused and what not and finally this is my response...and seven...
[crosstalk...host: taqdim and ta'khir...]
and by the way... even that seven...all later scholars say that doesn't make any sense. so they kind of dismissed even that...even after 35 years the greatest scholar of qira'aat.
[host: some accepted it. some accepted it.]
it doesn't answer the question ya akhi. anyway.
1:25:13
i don't want to get into that issue. why do i not want to get into that issue. here is the point. these issues should only be discussed amongst people who know what the qira'aat are and [..] understand's somebody's questions related to it.
[host: is what you are saying that the shakk that came or not the shakk part. the crisis that you had was in relation to this question..relation of aHruf and qira'at basically]
no no the crisis i had wasn't anything...the crisis i had was.. well yeah... that was what generated towards the crisis. the crisis was very simple. and by the way this is not a well-known open secret among many muslim graduate students among academics around the world. and this is one traditional understandings of aHruf and qira'at cannot answer some of these pressing questions that are now being poked.
1:26:00
by our people outside...by our academics...by their academics outside our tradition. you see... in our muslim environment..is always some respect we have for the qur'an. we should. a muslim enviroment will push a little bit and then say: khalas sami'na wa at'ana. and that is great alHamdulillah. when you go to academia...you don't have that red line..they're gonna just..you know the the... famous story of emperor with no clothes. they just point out that does not make any sense. well that is not true. and this and that.
1:26:28
and they bring issues which i am not gonna mention explicitly. that you know are true because they are in your own books. they are not inventing anything new. they will bring you riwaayat and they will bring you aathaar and then you add to that very well known issues of... i don't even want to be explicit...and then you bring on top of that makhtootat, and then and then it is very clear to you...to every single... very advanced student and specialist that the standard narrative has holes. that is what i am gonna say.
standard narrative does not answer some very pressing questions. ok. this is what i am gonna say.
1:27:02
[host: i think here..we..]
let me finish...this is a very [...] point let me finish.
and by the way if you are following online media and articles and what not...this is no longer hidden news. more and more professors and academics are writing stuff and is being publicised on twitter. in the last two three years...i have had at least..i would say a dozen people tweet at me like specific articles like how do you answer this. and about you know..ulum al qur'an...about qira'at...about makhtootat...about [...] issues... you know... these are not well known issues among western academia. they are bringing forth issues. their level of knowledge leaps and bounds from what used to be you know a hundred years ago.
and by and large our ulama in the eastern world are not aware...by and large...of what is going on in the west side of things. and they are not answering those questions in a manner that needs to be answered.
this is something all of us...something...in academia...fully acknowledge.
=====
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abu Hasan
Administrator
following up with yasir's comment about yaqin institute, i looked up and landed on this article (i don't know if this is the paper he hinted at):
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/nazir-khan/the-origins-of-the-variant-readings-of-the-quran/
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i liked this paragraph in that article:
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i read the article quickly (and i will read it more slowly later, in sha'Allah) and i didn't find anything objectionable.
i invite readers to read the article and go through yasir's comments and you will probably see why i sound miffed.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/nazir-khan/the-origins-of-the-variant-readings-of-the-quran/
----
i liked this paragraph in that article:
-----
i read the article quickly (and i will read it more slowly later, in sha'Allah) and i didn't find anything objectionable.
i invite readers to read the article and go through yasir's comments and you will probably see why i sound miffed.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
Juwayni
sunniport user
Mawlana @abu Hasan , he said:
1:28:00
we actually have a list ... by the way ... I am involved with a group of people ... 15 of them ... which is especially all of us are Muslims who follow Quran, Qira'at, experts ya'ani uhh ... academic minded as well not everybody's Qira'at experts - but all of us are basically practicing [???] Muslims ... we have a group that is discussing amongst itself these issues and Al HamduliLāh ya'ani one of them I'll just mention this that the Yaqeen paper on Qira'at is one of our group members as well and you can log onto Yaqeen and he has his paper and what not that's one interpretation that does a great service but it doesn't answer all the questions
my point being that this issue of Ahruf and Qira'at has troubled the Ummah from the very beginning of times nothing new and there are 15 opinions about this none of them fully answered all of the questions that are raised some of them answer more than others so the issues of the relationship of the origins of the ikhtilaf and all of this should only be discussed amongst those who are familiar with this science
1:29:00
and if you want to and I'll be very again open-minded here I did a class last semester with Islam[ic] Seminary [of] America on Ulum al-Quran and in that class we took students and we introduced them ... this is what Ulama say this is what Suyuti said this is what fulan said and then we introduced him to the other side and then we developed
it takes a while I can't answer this question in a 20 minute interview nor is it wise to do so which is why I never brought this topic up myself you will not find one lecture of mine about this issue it should never be brought up in public and I don't like these idiots and they are idiots WalLāhi because they're the ones who caused this in this issue their utter idiots who did something haram
And I don't like saying this this is not something you discuss amongst the masses ya akhi it's not wise you don't understand qira'at let it be that's why I never did it and that's why even when they accuse me I didn't defend myself because I would rather people have doubt about me than the Qur'an. let them throw me off the manhaj had no problem believe in the Book of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. but what is happening in the last few years is not me anymore it's the western academics
1:30:00
it's the Western academics these these problems are now becoming mainstream. Twitter has so many accounts of Qur'an experts and they're non-muslims or they're just saying things there are books written ya'ani Brill released a book by Shady Nasser again ya'ani read that book as well for those that are interested [in this?] stuff and you'll understand that hey we need Ulama who believe in the Quran to defend the Quran
Al Hamdu liLlāh thumma Al Hamdu liLlāh ubashhriukum our group -
Mohammad Hijab:
let me ask you one question to try and make this as specific as possible I think if I were to give you a blank MuṣHaf ... yeah ... and and tell you to write what is munazzal verbatim from Allah into that MuṣHaf with no human interference would you write something which correspond-
Yasir Qadhi:
it's not an easy answer it's not an easy yes or no it is enough for the Muslim to believe that the Qur'an is -
Mohammad Hijab:
I think this should be an easy yes or no though Yasir Qadhi-
Yasir Qadhi:
okay very well so ya Mohammed after we get off this phone call ... me and you
1:31:00
let's have a number of discussions no problem I'm very open with advanced students but these isssues should not ... look it is KalamulLāh what is going to be written ... it is KalamulLāh
Mohammad Hijab:
But what would you write-
Yasir Qadhi:
A-a-a-lets not ... you you're pushing me and I'm saying it's not hikmah to ... listen ... I have a condition like I said everything I said is going to be factual if I wanted to do [Tawdi'?] and what not I would do it right now in front of you there is no need for [Tawdi'] the Quran is the Uncreated Speech of Allah.
The Quran is preserved the Quran is known the Quran is mutawaatir and Al Hamdu liLlāh all of the Qira'at are the Quran all of the Qira'at or authentic Al Hamdu liLlāh. leave it at that akhi beyond this honestly I have no problem we'll have a discussion or take my class but beyond this requires background information it is enough for the Muslim to know that the Quran is the Speech of Allah that has been protected and what we recite is the Kalam of Allah that is enough for the Muslims
Mohammad Hijab:
I appreciate what you're saying but I-I-
Yasir Qadhi:
I wanted to say one thing-
Mohammad Hijab:
the reason why I don't want to kind of leave it too vague here is because
1:32:00
I feel like if if there are vagaries in what we say here then it's gonna bolster the initial ... whether it said privately or not is gonna is gonna give credence to that ...
Yasir Qadhi:
so let me say one thing ya Mohammad is that over the last any I mean I've been discussing this issue talking about my Ulum al-Quran book that I wrote it was published when I was 20-21 so it's been 25 years 26 years that I have been thinking about the Ahruf and Qira'at right and that book represents the standard mainstream of Islamic thought ya'ani it's a very advanced book that is the standard positions out there
now um over the last 25 years especially over the last ten years I have been doing a deep deep deep dive into this issue going back to the original sources getting consulting experts and I have a workable theory In Sha Allah Wa Ta'ala when the time is right I will publish books and papers on this in the meantime what have I done-
Mohammad Hijab:
But then but then-
Yasir Qadhi:
let me finish this point let me finish point is very important before I lose my train of thought what have I done
1:33:00
I have approached around a dozen Ulama that I look up to and I'll mention some of the names but you ascribed this to me Shaykh Akram Nadwi, Shaykh Abdullah Yusuf Al-Judai' in England ... uhh Subhan Allah the Qira'at expert in Medina ... actually when I went to Medina made a point to contact him and we had a one-on-one discussion and I presented the findings of our group it's not just me like 15 of us are you know thinking about these issues we understand some of these modern problems and whatnot
and I presented the Khulasa to all of these these people who are world top-notch experts some of them I'm not going to mention names right now because I don't know if they want me to fully agree some of them said these are really interesting ideas I need time to think about them and in the meantime I want you to present it to me in written form okay one of them-
Mohammed Hijab:
if I can push back here in just a little bit I know I know this is I don't want to make you uncomfortable but it's just just to make things clearer as you as you know I spend a lot of time with Shaykh Akram yeah and we had these conversations about the Qira'at
1:34:00
like for for many years I would say many years I've had these conversations of them his view is that okay the Qira'at are [all?] mutawatir it's very he made that public it's not something which is ... it's on his YouTube page
I think what I'm ... that's fine the for for many years many people have said that even though I complete I vehemently disagree with the idea that the things are not mutawatir
but many people for many years if you look at the early times you had Tabari or whatever it's clear that the question of tawatur was not was not always at straightforward one with all ten qira'at that are like [???]
but what I was gonna kind of push ... cause this question here I think if it's left unanswered a lot of people will have doubts in your position that if look if if someone gave you a Quran which is empty in terms of there's not there's nothing on it and gave you a pen obviously you're a hafiz of the Quran with the Qira'at obviously you can you can do istianah with what's maktub
1:35:00
- but the question is would what you write in that MuṣḤaf correspond with any - I'm not saying it's a Mutawatir - I'm saying would it would be Sahih authentic would it correspond with anything that we have in terms of the Riwayat and the Qira'at ... is if if the answer is no then for all intents and purposes what you could be portrayed as saying is that you have a view which is not only completely anti-normative but is beyond the scope of was written for 1,400 years so someone would say-
Yasir Qadhi:
no no - if it's beyond the scope no no Akhi who's gonna bring a new Qur'an AʿūdhubilLāH. We're going to have the Qur'an there but which Qira'at will it be it'll be probably a mixture right it's not gonna be necessarily
Mohammed Hijab:
That's fine
Yasir Qadhi:
yeah okay so let's leave it at that it's gonna it's not gonna be the exact Hafs an-Aasim bi Riwayati fulan or Shu'ba this is something that is coming at a later stage okay the codification of the qira'at is coming in the second third century of the Hijrah
1:28:00
we actually have a list ... by the way ... I am involved with a group of people ... 15 of them ... which is especially all of us are Muslims who follow Quran, Qira'at, experts ya'ani uhh ... academic minded as well not everybody's Qira'at experts - but all of us are basically practicing [???] Muslims ... we have a group that is discussing amongst itself these issues and Al HamduliLāh ya'ani one of them I'll just mention this that the Yaqeen paper on Qira'at is one of our group members as well and you can log onto Yaqeen and he has his paper and what not that's one interpretation that does a great service but it doesn't answer all the questions
my point being that this issue of Ahruf and Qira'at has troubled the Ummah from the very beginning of times nothing new and there are 15 opinions about this none of them fully answered all of the questions that are raised some of them answer more than others so the issues of the relationship of the origins of the ikhtilaf and all of this should only be discussed amongst those who are familiar with this science
1:29:00
and if you want to and I'll be very again open-minded here I did a class last semester with Islam[ic] Seminary [of] America on Ulum al-Quran and in that class we took students and we introduced them ... this is what Ulama say this is what Suyuti said this is what fulan said and then we introduced him to the other side and then we developed
it takes a while I can't answer this question in a 20 minute interview nor is it wise to do so which is why I never brought this topic up myself you will not find one lecture of mine about this issue it should never be brought up in public and I don't like these idiots and they are idiots WalLāhi because they're the ones who caused this in this issue their utter idiots who did something haram
And I don't like saying this this is not something you discuss amongst the masses ya akhi it's not wise you don't understand qira'at let it be that's why I never did it and that's why even when they accuse me I didn't defend myself because I would rather people have doubt about me than the Qur'an. let them throw me off the manhaj had no problem believe in the Book of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. but what is happening in the last few years is not me anymore it's the western academics
1:30:00
it's the Western academics these these problems are now becoming mainstream. Twitter has so many accounts of Qur'an experts and they're non-muslims or they're just saying things there are books written ya'ani Brill released a book by Shady Nasser again ya'ani read that book as well for those that are interested [in this?] stuff and you'll understand that hey we need Ulama who believe in the Quran to defend the Quran
Al Hamdu liLlāh thumma Al Hamdu liLlāh ubashhriukum our group -
Mohammad Hijab:
let me ask you one question to try and make this as specific as possible I think if I were to give you a blank MuṣHaf ... yeah ... and and tell you to write what is munazzal verbatim from Allah into that MuṣHaf with no human interference would you write something which correspond-
Yasir Qadhi:
it's not an easy answer it's not an easy yes or no it is enough for the Muslim to believe that the Qur'an is -
Mohammad Hijab:
I think this should be an easy yes or no though Yasir Qadhi-
Yasir Qadhi:
okay very well so ya Mohammed after we get off this phone call ... me and you
1:31:00
let's have a number of discussions no problem I'm very open with advanced students but these isssues should not ... look it is KalamulLāh what is going to be written ... it is KalamulLāh
Mohammad Hijab:
But what would you write-
Yasir Qadhi:
A-a-a-lets not ... you you're pushing me and I'm saying it's not hikmah to ... listen ... I have a condition like I said everything I said is going to be factual if I wanted to do [Tawdi'?] and what not I would do it right now in front of you there is no need for [Tawdi'] the Quran is the Uncreated Speech of Allah.
The Quran is preserved the Quran is known the Quran is mutawaatir and Al Hamdu liLlāh all of the Qira'at are the Quran all of the Qira'at or authentic Al Hamdu liLlāh. leave it at that akhi beyond this honestly I have no problem we'll have a discussion or take my class but beyond this requires background information it is enough for the Muslim to know that the Quran is the Speech of Allah that has been protected and what we recite is the Kalam of Allah that is enough for the Muslims
Mohammad Hijab:
I appreciate what you're saying but I-I-
Yasir Qadhi:
I wanted to say one thing-
Mohammad Hijab:
the reason why I don't want to kind of leave it too vague here is because
1:32:00
I feel like if if there are vagaries in what we say here then it's gonna bolster the initial ... whether it said privately or not is gonna is gonna give credence to that ...
Yasir Qadhi:
so let me say one thing ya Mohammad is that over the last any I mean I've been discussing this issue talking about my Ulum al-Quran book that I wrote it was published when I was 20-21 so it's been 25 years 26 years that I have been thinking about the Ahruf and Qira'at right and that book represents the standard mainstream of Islamic thought ya'ani it's a very advanced book that is the standard positions out there
now um over the last 25 years especially over the last ten years I have been doing a deep deep deep dive into this issue going back to the original sources getting consulting experts and I have a workable theory In Sha Allah Wa Ta'ala when the time is right I will publish books and papers on this in the meantime what have I done-
Mohammad Hijab:
But then but then-
Yasir Qadhi:
let me finish this point let me finish point is very important before I lose my train of thought what have I done
1:33:00
I have approached around a dozen Ulama that I look up to and I'll mention some of the names but you ascribed this to me Shaykh Akram Nadwi, Shaykh Abdullah Yusuf Al-Judai' in England ... uhh Subhan Allah the Qira'at expert in Medina ... actually when I went to Medina made a point to contact him and we had a one-on-one discussion and I presented the findings of our group it's not just me like 15 of us are you know thinking about these issues we understand some of these modern problems and whatnot
and I presented the Khulasa to all of these these people who are world top-notch experts some of them I'm not going to mention names right now because I don't know if they want me to fully agree some of them said these are really interesting ideas I need time to think about them and in the meantime I want you to present it to me in written form okay one of them-
Mohammed Hijab:
if I can push back here in just a little bit I know I know this is I don't want to make you uncomfortable but it's just just to make things clearer as you as you know I spend a lot of time with Shaykh Akram yeah and we had these conversations about the Qira'at
1:34:00
like for for many years I would say many years I've had these conversations of them his view is that okay the Qira'at are [all?] mutawatir it's very he made that public it's not something which is ... it's on his YouTube page
I think what I'm ... that's fine the for for many years many people have said that even though I complete I vehemently disagree with the idea that the things are not mutawatir
but many people for many years if you look at the early times you had Tabari or whatever it's clear that the question of tawatur was not was not always at straightforward one with all ten qira'at that are like [???]
but what I was gonna kind of push ... cause this question here I think if it's left unanswered a lot of people will have doubts in your position that if look if if someone gave you a Quran which is empty in terms of there's not there's nothing on it and gave you a pen obviously you're a hafiz of the Quran with the Qira'at obviously you can you can do istianah with what's maktub
1:35:00
- but the question is would what you write in that MuṣḤaf correspond with any - I'm not saying it's a Mutawatir - I'm saying would it would be Sahih authentic would it correspond with anything that we have in terms of the Riwayat and the Qira'at ... is if if the answer is no then for all intents and purposes what you could be portrayed as saying is that you have a view which is not only completely anti-normative but is beyond the scope of was written for 1,400 years so someone would say-
Yasir Qadhi:
no no - if it's beyond the scope no no Akhi who's gonna bring a new Qur'an AʿūdhubilLāH. We're going to have the Qur'an there but which Qira'at will it be it'll be probably a mixture right it's not gonna be necessarily
Mohammed Hijab:
That's fine
Yasir Qadhi:
yeah okay so let's leave it at that it's gonna it's not gonna be the exact Hafs an-Aasim bi Riwayati fulan or Shu'ba this is something that is coming at a later stage okay the codification of the qira'at is coming in the second third century of the Hijrah
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as for yaqeen institute and omar suleiman, i would urge all of you to read this:
https://muslimskeptic.com/2020/04/20/yaqeen-institute-review/
this Muslim skeptic guy (Daniel Haqiqatjou) is doing a very good job of exposing stooges of the empire, be they wahabis or so-called sufis like hamza yusuf.
he himself seems to be wahabi oriented and an admirer of ibn taymiya but for the most part he's not into theology or polemics within Islam, rather focuses on issues pertaining to the millah and the big picture for the Muslim demographic in the west, mainly america - things like assimilation, integration, war on terror, sold out celebrity imams, deradicalization, etc.
https://muslimskeptic.com/2020/04/20/yaqeen-institute-review/
this Muslim skeptic guy (Daniel Haqiqatjou) is doing a very good job of exposing stooges of the empire, be they wahabis or so-called sufis like hamza yusuf.
he himself seems to be wahabi oriented and an admirer of ibn taymiya but for the most part he's not into theology or polemics within Islam, rather focuses on issues pertaining to the millah and the big picture for the Muslim demographic in the west, mainly america - things like assimilation, integration, war on terror, sold out celebrity imams, deradicalization, etc.
abu Hasan
Administrator
i haven't seen or heard much of yasir - except what is shared here. but in this clip the leanings and fawning over western 'academia' is obvious to someone tuned in - and i have nothing but contempt for those who eagerly love to wear the collar of intellectual slavery of the west.
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the issue of ahruf is neither something that causes doubt nor were our scholars flabbergasted. yasir's misuse of sayyidina ubayy's saying on shakk is an example of how one can distort an image in spite of accurately quoting a snippet. we will see this in sha'Allah.
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i checked the muslimskeptic (MSk) article linked - and picked out one particular topic: 'beating women'. i do not agree with the MSk critique [and i have not seen the yaqeen article on this either].
abu Hasan
Administrator
frankly, this is not an issue at all. the issue of aHruf is indeed a debated issue - what exactly did the Master ﷺ mean when he said: "the qur'an was revealed in 7 letters". but nobody lost their sleep over finding its true meaning. this is neither the ONLY issue that does not have a conclusive and definite explanation, nor was the debate/difference one that would plunge you in doubt.
but first, which is this hadith of ubayy?
this is a hadith that is reported in musnad of al-harith ibn abi usamah as follows (al-nashr, vol.1 p.20).
in the narration of ubayy raDiyAllahu anhu:
i entered the masjid to pray. another man entered the masjid and started praying; he started reciting [surah] al-naHl in a manner different to my [recitation]. when he finished the prayer, i asked him 'who taught you to recite?" the man replied: RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. and then another man came and stood to pray; he started reciting [surah] al-naHl and he recited it differently than me and different to my companion. after he finished prayer, i asked him: "who made you recite like this?" he replied: "RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam".
a doubt entered my heart, and rejection severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah].
i [held them by their hands] and went to RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam with both of them, and said: 'make these two recite'. so he made one of the two to recite. [and after he recited] he said: "good". so a doubt entered my heart, and a rejection [takdhib] severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah]. then he made the other one to recite [and after he finished reciting], he said: "good" [aHsanta: you did well]. so a doubt entered my heart, and a rejection [takdhib] severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah].
RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam patted on my chest and said: "i seek for you the refuge of Allah from all doubt, o ubayy".
and then he said: indeed, jibril alayhi's salam came to me and said: 'indeed your Lord Almighty glory to Him [azza wa jall] commands you to recite the qur'an in one letter." i said: "O Allah, make it easier for my followers". so he [jibril alayhi's salam] returned and said: "indeed your Lord Alimighty azza wa jall commands you to recite the qur'an in two letters". i said: "O Allah make it easier for my followers".
then he returned and said: "indeed your Lord Almighty azza wa jall commands you to recite the qur'an in SEVEN letters and has granted you a prayer for every time you have requested a concession. [i.e. three special prayers as adduced from sharh muslim]
a doubt entered my heart, and rejection severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah].
i [held them by their hands] and went to RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam with both of them, and said: 'make these two recite'. so he made one of the two to recite. [and after he recited] he said: "good". so a doubt entered my heart, and a rejection [takdhib] severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah]. then he made the other one to recite [and after he finished reciting], he said: "good" [aHsanta: you did well]. so a doubt entered my heart, and a rejection [takdhib] severe than what i had in the [pre-islamic] pagan days [jahiliyyah].
RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam patted on my chest and said: "i seek for you the refuge of Allah from all doubt, o ubayy".
and then he said: indeed, jibril alayhi's salam came to me and said: 'indeed your Lord Almighty glory to Him [azza wa jall] commands you to recite the qur'an in one letter." i said: "O Allah, make it easier for my followers". so he [jibril alayhi's salam] returned and said: "indeed your Lord Alimighty azza wa jall commands you to recite the qur'an in two letters". i said: "O Allah make it easier for my followers".
then he returned and said: "indeed your Lord Almighty azza wa jall commands you to recite the qur'an in SEVEN letters and has granted you a prayer for every time you have requested a concession. [i.e. three special prayers as adduced from sharh muslim]
the hadith in musnad imam ahmad is like this (arna'ut edition, vol.35/101, 111)
another riwayah:
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abu Hasan
Administrator
one does not use this term for 'repeat' unless to indicate disgust. regurgitate is what yasir does from the orientalist propaganda.
why deep dive? it is there in black and white on the surface. you can pick up any book on ulum al-qur'an, and they mention it. the hadith 'the qur'an was revealed in 7 letters' [aHruf] is commonly known and present in bukhari muslim etc.
HOWEVER, the argument about seven aHruf is not from the time of SaHabah. true, saHabah found it incredible when they first encountered it, but after RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam explained it, they did not bother about it.
----
the key mistake here is, that sayyiduna ubayy said that "a doubt rose in his mind" BEFORE the explanation. that is when RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam affirmed that all the three readings were correct, he was confused. the Prophet SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam explained the reason to ubayy and he understood the reason.
the first thing is that yasir has misplaced the hadith of manaqib; the hadith he mentions is said about ibn umm abd, i.e., abdullah ibn mas'ud raDiyAllahu anhu.
indeed, ubayy is among the four that RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "take the qur'an from four: ibn umm abd [abdullah ibn mas'ud], mu'adh ibn jabal, ubayy ibn ka'ab, saalim (mawla of abi hudhayfah)". [bukhari, ahmad etc.]
but the above praise: "whoever likes to recite the qur'an immaculately as it was revealed, then he should recite according to the recitation of ibn umm abd [abdullah ibn mas'uud]" [musnad imam ahmad, ibn majah, etc. vide siHah of Diya al-maqdisi].
it is very important to be clear in our understanding that the shakk entered when hazrat ubayy first encountered variant readings. NOT after RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam explained that there were seven readings.
as we have seen - the shakk was before the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam explained that there were 7 readings/letters.
because in addition to sayyiduna ubayy there are other sahabah who reported the same - it is mutawatir. nobody after them said they had doubts. the source of the doubt was when there was no explanation.
notice - that the hadith of 7 letters (sab'ah aHruf) was widely disseminated and accepted by the ummah and the variant readings exist since the time of the earliest saHabah without anyone refuting others.
in fact, in a hadith: [see it'Haf al-khiyarah al-maharah of al-busiri, vol.6 p.321]
"the qur'an was revealed in seven letters. whichever letter you recite, you will be deemed right. do not argue about it, because argument about it is kufr"
====================
summary: the doubt part of the sahabi was before they were told that there were seven letters/recitations. after it was explained to them, they accepted it and it became a part of the aqidah.
abu Hasan
Administrator
there are multiple readings of the qur'an.
all the ten readings are deemed correct and it is necessary to accept them as the qur'an
we know that our Master sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said there are 7 readings/letters. nobody argues about THIS. the difference of opinion is about what is meant by the '7 letters' because it was not clear.
the SaHabah were the first-hand recipients of the qur'an and being native arabs - most senior SaHabah being from the quraysh - they knew about and understood the variants very well.
a very simplistic explanation given is that these are the 7 qira'at. however, the seven qira'at we know in our time are not the same as that in the time of the sahabah. some scholars did not accept this and they said the present 7 readings will actually count as ONE of the SEVEN letters.
this may indeed sound confusing to the beginners - but it is not an issue they should bother about, nor is it necessary to learn about it. what is contained in the mus'Haf we have today is the qur'an - that has been handed to us through rigorously authenticated routes.
this is what yasir seems to be trying to explain when he says:
====
imam al-jazary passed away in 833 AH. we are in 1440 AH. that would mean say 440 AH. that would put him at par with abu amr al-dani (d. 444) and abu talib makki (d.437 AH).
i do not deny the high status of imam al-jazary and definitely, from his time onward until ours, he remains the greatest imam of qira'at. yasir exaggerates imam al-jazary's standing only to emphasise that even the greatest scholars of qira'at are confused. but it is not the case. it is true that imam jazary said that i have reflected on the meaning of this hadith for more than thirty years, but he did not say: "he was confused and what not".
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all the ten readings are deemed correct and it is necessary to accept them as the qur'an
we know that our Master sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said there are 7 readings/letters. nobody argues about THIS. the difference of opinion is about what is meant by the '7 letters' because it was not clear.
the SaHabah were the first-hand recipients of the qur'an and being native arabs - most senior SaHabah being from the quraysh - they knew about and understood the variants very well.
a very simplistic explanation given is that these are the 7 qira'at. however, the seven qira'at we know in our time are not the same as that in the time of the sahabah. some scholars did not accept this and they said the present 7 readings will actually count as ONE of the SEVEN letters.
this may indeed sound confusing to the beginners - but it is not an issue they should bother about, nor is it necessary to learn about it. what is contained in the mus'Haf we have today is the qur'an - that has been handed to us through rigorously authenticated routes.
this is what yasir seems to be trying to explain when he says:
====
the aHruf and qira'at are open to discussion and have been inconclusively debated among scholars without it being a matter of life and death. there is no need to plant doubts in the minds of people by attempting to hush it and make a fuss about it and present it as if the qur'an we read is questionable and has been debated upon (al-iyadhu billah).
imam al-jazary passed away in 833 AH. we are in 1440 AH. that would mean say 440 AH. that would put him at par with abu amr al-dani (d. 444) and abu talib makki (d.437 AH).
i do not deny the high status of imam al-jazary and definitely, from his time onward until ours, he remains the greatest imam of qira'at. yasir exaggerates imam al-jazary's standing only to emphasise that even the greatest scholars of qira'at are confused. but it is not the case. it is true that imam jazary said that i have reflected on the meaning of this hadith for more than thirty years, but he did not say: "he was confused and what not".
i found this hadith perplexing, and i pondered about it and reflected deeply for more than thirty years, until ALlah taala opened [my heart for its knowledge] for me, and by which this can be a possibly the correct explanation, Allah Willing... [nashr, v1 p26]
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abu Hasan
Administrator
a small request: please refrain from making long posts on side-issues unless it is something to do with this specific yasir-interview and related to objections on qur'an mus'haf etc.
also, if you would like to reply or refute or correct my points - please do. but if you wish to do a detailed analysis - please start a new thread.
posting links is fine.
i have moved some posts on yasir but they were unrelated to this issue; hence moved to a different thread.
===
please bear with me, in sha'Allah, i will keep writing on this topic.
also, if you would like to reply or refute or correct my points - please do. but if you wish to do a detailed analysis - please start a new thread.
posting links is fine.
i have moved some posts on yasir but they were unrelated to this issue; hence moved to a different thread.
===
please bear with me, in sha'Allah, i will keep writing on this topic.
abu Hasan
Administrator
in sha'Allah we will see some more timelines, lists of books (on qira'at) on the timeline and hopefully infographics for making it easier to understand.
---
for the present, here are two timelines on a short 11-500 AH scale and 11-1440 AH scale. this is not comprehensive listing, just major qaris and authors. to give you a perspective on how hollow yasir sounds.
the work done in this space is monumental. and anybody who has been a student of qiraa'at will tell you that none of these authors were 'confused' or 'flabbergasted' without any answer. yes, there are certain matters which are debated by scholars but this is certainly not such that would cast doubt on the tawatur of the qur'an.
while we talk about this, i got an opportunity to read shady nasser's paper on tawatur. on the very first page, he makes mistakes and FORCIBLY tries to shove the orientalist opinions down the reader's throat from the word go. after reading about 120 pages (about half the book) i felt vindicated about my opinions related to 'academia' and reiterate my belief that they are a bunch of humbugs who just drop names.
only the likes of yasir can be impressed or intimidated by these academic frauds.
---
let us come back to our discussion.
---
for the present, here are two timelines on a short 11-500 AH scale and 11-1440 AH scale. this is not comprehensive listing, just major qaris and authors. to give you a perspective on how hollow yasir sounds.
the work done in this space is monumental. and anybody who has been a student of qiraa'at will tell you that none of these authors were 'confused' or 'flabbergasted' without any answer. yes, there are certain matters which are debated by scholars but this is certainly not such that would cast doubt on the tawatur of the qur'an.
while we talk about this, i got an opportunity to read shady nasser's paper on tawatur. on the very first page, he makes mistakes and FORCIBLY tries to shove the orientalist opinions down the reader's throat from the word go. after reading about 120 pages (about half the book) i felt vindicated about my opinions related to 'academia' and reiterate my belief that they are a bunch of humbugs who just drop names.
only the likes of yasir can be impressed or intimidated by these academic frauds.
---
let us come back to our discussion.
abu Hasan
Administrator
refer to the timelines. look at where imam al-jazary is and where previous ulama were.
this is not cribbing about a very trivial point - that yasir said imam jazary was the greatest qari in the past 1000 years. indeed, he was a towering imam and if it was not said by yasir to prove his point i wouldn't bother about it.
yasir praises him ONLY to use his statement: "i have been reflecting on the meaning of the hadith of 7 qir'aat and here is my conclusion". using this yasir wants to prove that even the greatest qaris did not have answers and that whatever 'traditional' answers were given, the orientalists - 'western academics' are now "poking holes".
we will see how these timelines will help us put our point across (hopefully in a better manner, easier to understand for the awam).
----
wa billahit tawfiq
abu Hasan
Administrator
if anyone is interested in biographies of qurra, they can refer to
imam al-dhahabi's: ma'rifatu al-qurra al-kibar also known as tabaqat al-qurra' [two editions below]; this is ordered chronologically and the ranks.
https://archive.org/details/waq42847
https://archive.org/details/waq45895
imam al-jazary's: ghayatu'n nihayah: (this is ordered alphabetically).
https://archive.org/details/waq88395
imam al-dhahabi's: ma'rifatu al-qurra al-kibar also known as tabaqat al-qurra' [two editions below]; this is ordered chronologically and the ranks.
https://archive.org/details/waq42847
https://archive.org/details/waq45895
imam al-jazary's: ghayatu'n nihayah: (this is ordered alphabetically).
https://archive.org/details/waq88395
abu Hasan
Administrator
take the magna carta:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
----
how about the american declaration of independence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
====
compare this with our system of isnad - where a trustworthy pious man hands it down with utmost fear of distorting it and so on. compare this to all other systems and cultures where the reporter's personal integrity is either not known nor do they care. drunkards, womanisers, men of contemptible character are all 'narrators' and 'sources'!
imagine if someone totally unrelated - doesn't even know the language arbitrarily dismissing these documents are baseless?
for example in shady nasser's tract that makes yasir tremble in his boots, he dismisses the account that jam'a al-qur'an started with abu bakr al-siddiq raDiyAllahu anhu and continued in the time of umar al-faruq raDiyAllahu anhu. BECAUSE two western academics didn't think it was plausible:
what nonsense! two (most likely) wine drinking swine, eating 'academics' think it is strange - probably the wrote it down downing pints of liquor. plot them on the timeline and ask, what right do they have to question the authencity and on what basis? a thief imagines another to be a thief. a fraud expects others be a frauds.
i have no reason whatsoever to trust these 'academics'.
======
imam al-jazary mentioned in al-nashr that two qaris travelled the world and gathered narration-chains and routes (riwayat and turuq).
for example:
imam abu amr al-dani (d. 444 AH) collected 500 routes and chains of transmission (R&CT).
abul qasim yusuf al-hudhali (d. 465 AH) travelled the world and collected recitations and routes.
he compiled a book: al-kamil in which he mentioned 50 recitations, 1459 R&CT and he says that he met 365 shaykhs.
and his contemporary:
abdul karim al-Tabari (d.478) in his kitab al-talkhis and suq al-arus, mentioned 1550 riwayats and turuq.
imam al-jazary says we do not know of anyone who has gathered so many riwayat and turuq except:
abu'l qasim yisa ibn abdul aziz al-iskandari (d.629 AH), who wrote a book al-jamiy al-akbar wa'l baHr al-azkhar that contains 7000 riwayat and turuq.
----
of course, people can dismiss our ulama and their efforts of collecting isnads arbitrarily as "doesn't make sense" or "cannot be proven". yet, these people are academics. 'researchers'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
----
how about the american declaration of independence?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
====
compare this with our system of isnad - where a trustworthy pious man hands it down with utmost fear of distorting it and so on. compare this to all other systems and cultures where the reporter's personal integrity is either not known nor do they care. drunkards, womanisers, men of contemptible character are all 'narrators' and 'sources'!
imagine if someone totally unrelated - doesn't even know the language arbitrarily dismissing these documents are baseless?
for example in shady nasser's tract that makes yasir tremble in his boots, he dismisses the account that jam'a al-qur'an started with abu bakr al-siddiq raDiyAllahu anhu and continued in the time of umar al-faruq raDiyAllahu anhu. BECAUSE two western academics didn't think it was plausible:
what nonsense! two (most likely) wine drinking swine, eating 'academics' think it is strange - probably the wrote it down downing pints of liquor. plot them on the timeline and ask, what right do they have to question the authencity and on what basis? a thief imagines another to be a thief. a fraud expects others be a frauds.
i have no reason whatsoever to trust these 'academics'.
======
imam al-jazary mentioned in al-nashr that two qaris travelled the world and gathered narration-chains and routes (riwayat and turuq).
for example:
imam abu amr al-dani (d. 444 AH) collected 500 routes and chains of transmission (R&CT).
abul qasim yusuf al-hudhali (d. 465 AH) travelled the world and collected recitations and routes.
he compiled a book: al-kamil in which he mentioned 50 recitations, 1459 R&CT and he says that he met 365 shaykhs.
and his contemporary:
abdul karim al-Tabari (d.478) in his kitab al-talkhis and suq al-arus, mentioned 1550 riwayats and turuq.
imam al-jazary says we do not know of anyone who has gathered so many riwayat and turuq except:
abu'l qasim yisa ibn abdul aziz al-iskandari (d.629 AH), who wrote a book al-jamiy al-akbar wa'l baHr al-azkhar that contains 7000 riwayat and turuq.
----
of course, people can dismiss our ulama and their efforts of collecting isnads arbitrarily as "doesn't make sense" or "cannot be proven". yet, these people are academics. 'researchers'.
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