Fadak and khatā

Aqdas said:
Ok, let's say Sayyid Mash'hadi has some sort of plan.

Why does that need him to boycott a Sunni scholar, say he has done kufr, call him la'nati, call him harami, issue a fatwa against him and say he is out of Ahl al-Sunnah?

So is he trying for unity with shiah supporters by ousting our own?
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Even if Sayyid Irfan Shah and coterie felt so strongly about issuing fatwa of kufr, what was the point of following up with registering a case, and escalating it to court? It is clear from the news reporting that the court/police action was instigated by some 100+ peerzadas (no prizes for guessing under whose leadership). What was Shah sahib's role in that? Clearly he was anointed the spearhead.

Does anyone in the anti-Jalali brigade have any fear of the pandora's box opened by involving the government/law machinery? AbdalQadir et al have already highlighted the dangers of such precedence (and invocation of blasphemy law). How does Nabeel Afzal justify that? Since when have ulemas (in recent 100-200 years) used political crutch to settle gustakhi/kufr allegation?

gaali-galoch, spurious fatwas and ganging up aside, the ramification of this episode will be very far-reaching.
 
Waqar786 said:
I humbly request the brothers here, instead of looking at various clips and making conclusions, speak to the likes of Sh Nabeel, who is a representative of Shah Sahib to at least find out the ground reality of Shah Sahib's efforts.
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really? they should stop releasing the clips then.

as can be seen from the fb post, nabeel sahab has simply re-iterated the slanders and disinformation that were evident from the clips anyways.

for me this isn't new, I have been through this 'personal coaching' thing before - and I have an idea as to how it works.

we are supposed to go by what is apparent, and what is apparent is zulm - not on an individual but the local sunni community as a whole.

Hundreds of clueless sunnis who don't know what to think, whom to believe. Making a spectacle of sunnis. I will now be afraid to tell anyone in search of sunnism to "just go to youtube and you will find plenty of proofs for the sunni side".

Let that sink in.

Waqar786 said:
Let's wait for how this issue comes to head and then we will see. In sha Allah, the hope is, we might see more unity in the ranks of Sunnis
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Allah knows best, but this is absurd - after setting fire to an entire community, they are telling us we should just shut our eyes and hope for the best!

Sooner or later this fire is coming to the UK - I am barely hoping that there are enough sensible people to put a stop to it before it engulfs them too.

Waqar786 said:
With regards to the swearing, shaykh Nabeel did not try to justify it but provided a context. I don't agree it should be used. However, the implications of the language used should be treated as a separate issue, because they don't reflect Shah sahib
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poor attempt at damage control. what's that even supposed to mean - it's night time but the sun is still shining because there is a context to it. go figure.

jalali sahib was screaming at the top of his voice that he did not mean anything even close to negative and yet he was ruthlessly attacked and hounded out of his madrasah and sent to prison, and here we are being asked to ignore what was being shouted on a live camera with thousands of witnesses and just accept that "they don't reflect his actual position" - that is to say "he didn't really mean it".

anything else?

Waqar786 said:
Shah sahib is working in the interest of Sunnis. That's what matters
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is that a cruel joke or what?
 
I did not want to comment further. However, it is clear that we are not aware of the full facts and there are things going on in the background. Politics and a lot of egos involved.

We can only pray that everything works itself out and Sunnis can become more united. Without access to the ground reality, I think it is just better to wait.

Re. Shaykh Nabeel, it is a case of whether you want to contact him to put him right or seek clarification. If it's the latter, then he will speak to you and attempt to clarify things but if you have already decided what the facts are then you are going to get the short drift.

If he is being disingenuous or blind following Shah Sahib, then like I said, it will come out. The picture will become clear but we can only pray it works out for the better In sha Allah.

We are in desperate need for greater unity within our ranks. I know it looks like it is Shah Sahib and his colleagues are causing the disunity but let's see how things shape up in the coming months
 
@Waqar786 brother, we've all been through this excuse of some grand selfless maqsad behind some erratic nonsense activity. (Sounds like an indo-pak drama serial where you watch 26 episodes to finally see an unexpected anti-climax turning the whole story on it's head and revealing the realities of all characters)

Let's get one thing straight - scholars are not Khidr 3alaihis Salam and we are not living in the times of Hazrat Musa 3alaihis Salam.

In our Shari3at we are obligated to act on the apparent and leave the niyyahs to Allah.

For all we know, a scholar or person who is acting 100% in accordance to sacred law, he might as well be doing riya. There are ahadith about the qaari and the scholar and the mujahid who will be thrown in hellfire because they did those things to show people.

Again, for all we know, someone seeming to act contrary to maslaha might as well have some grand hikmah or maqsad behind it.

What's our job? See everything in the light of the Shari3at and leave the rest to Allah.

And what are we seeing? A public circus of scholars!

And after putting up this circus, no one can seriously expect us to entertain some grand aims behind it.

To be honest, I have no idea who Nabeel Afzal is, but I've heard all these theories of 'but he's acting on a grand aim which us non-walis can't comprehend' from many more shuyukhs' followers: Hamza Yusuf, Ali jifry, Keller, nazim qubrusi, gibril Haddad, and more. all these people, to those swayed by their charm, were/are supposedly acting on some grand and secret plan to help deen and ummah.

If there is some elaborate grand hikmah on the anti-jalali side, please share it or tell Nabeel Afzal to share it publicly.

Otherwise it's simply disingenuous and even evil to firstly set up a public circus and then tell the awam to keep shut because there's more to it than meets the eye.
 
Waqar786 said:
Politics and a lot of egos involved.

Re. Shaykh Nabeel, it is a case of whether you want to contact him to put him right or seek clarification. If it's the latter, then he will speak to you and attempt to clarify things but if you have already decided what the facts are then you are going to get the short drift.
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You are being naive. To be honest, nobody is asking for clarification from Nabeel Afzal. Who is he to do us a favour by giving clarification? He is only doing himself and his shaykh a favour by issuing clarification (so lame that the quality of defence/clarification itself betrays holes in the ruling of such grave nature).

Will Nabeel Afzal also defend the arrest and case against Dr Jalali? Gali-galoch is not a new thing (either for Shah sahib or for few sub-continental ulemas). Calling each other gustakh/gumrah (or even kafir) is also not a new thing. What is new (and seriously worrying) is the arrest of Dr Jalali on a matter that was best left to mutual mud-slinging, accusations/clarifications/counter-arguments etc. Why did this anti-Jalali clique stoop to this new low? Did Dr Jalali ask for it? Is a difference of opinion deserving of arrest?

I have seen a video of Hanif Quraishi gloating about Dr Lahori's arrest. So the anti-jalali clique can't pretend to have no hand in the arrest.

Which other qadiani/shia/wahabi/deobandi has Shah sahib and his coterie managed to get arrested so far (only recent person to be arrested has been plumber mirza, but he is a big joke anyway)? Was Dr Jalali's crime worse than these abominables? I am yet to see any open condemnation by this brigade of that kanjari lawyer who first raked the issue of bagh-e-fadak.

If this was an attempt at unifying sunnis, then I pity these religious "leaders".

Stop being an apologist. You can't put a lipstick on this matter, no matter how hard you tried.
 
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Waqar786 said:
I did not want to comment further. However, it is clear that we are not aware of the full facts and there are things going on in the background. Politics and a lot of egos involved.

We can only pray that everything works itself out and Sunnis can become more united. Without access to the ground reality, I think it is just better to wait.

Re. Shaykh Nabeel, it is a case of whether you want to contact him to put him right or seek clarification. If it's the latter, then he will speak to you and attempt to clarify things but if you have already decided what the facts are then you are going to get the short drift.

If he is being disingenuous or blind following Shah Sahib, then like I said, it will come out. The picture will become clear but we can only pray it works out for the better In sha Allah.

We are in desperate need for greater unity within our ranks. I know it looks like it is Shah Sahib and his colleagues are causing the disunity but let's see how things shape up in the coming months
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Okay okay, I get it. We will keep our eyes closed, pretend to be deaf, shut our mouths, let the dust settle and things will finally become clear as daylight! What absurdity!

This episode has a serious impact on sunnism in the subcontinent and unfortunately the damage that Irfan shah and his mafia lobby have caused to Islam by this might even turn out to be irreversible (Allah forbid)!

People are not paying proper notice, Irfan Shah has deceitfully misinterpreted the Quranic verse about Waleed bin Mughira where he was called an illegitimate child and used that as a basis of spitting all the filth about Ashraf Jalali sahibs mother by stating that it is permissible to use those words (h****i) for a gustakh (we know that no gustakhi was ever done in any case). Irfan Shah's camp - what Allah said was haqq and indeed he was born out of wedlock, whereas this is not true for Jalali Sahib. Irfan Shah, you created this misrepresentation a few years ago which only a few picked up at that time, and today you have applied the same and we can now see the blind followers trying to bring forward daleels for this evil deed. Will you dare to be willing to use your distortion and apply the same gaali to Hazrat Nuh Alaihis Salaam's kafir son for being a gustakh? Can you now see the seriousness of your errors or would you like to remain blind?

Fear Allah you people, you are going to be held accountable very soon!

Even if Irfan Shah and his group one day acknowledge their sin (if indeed it happens we will see, lest Allah's punishment falls on them and we see their hearts hardened from doing ruju) then we should stop allowing them to sit on lofty pedestals and give any public speeches henceforth.

This is just one of the grave sins of this group, the other one being accusing a Muslim of blasphemy and kufr!
 
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See this kafir rafidi barking his profanities with impunity. This is what the rafidi's want, to preach their tabarra and irtidad openly.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/KtES1sWLGszv/

https://www.4shared.com/video/1GkheZ2xiq/VID-20200727-WA0000.html (alternate link)

Sincere question without taking any sides: which side's (pro or anti Jalali) actions are more conducive to his evil agenda?

Another sincere question without taking any sides: will Jalali's arrest strengthen his evil agenda? Will it work against the anti-blasphemy law? Or it's just a pig rolling in mud and this mustahiqe lanat mardood's oinking won't affect anything?

These vermin are now openly propagating their tabarra.

@abu Hasan @Aqdas please remove the video if you think it can cause more harm than to expose the evil face of the rafidi's.
 
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This rabble rousing fitnah causing shaytan is gonna be the new tahirul padri. Just wait and watch, specially after tahir dies!

He calls himself Shamsheere Ala Hazrat, when in reality it's a crime to even call him haqeere Ala Hazrat!


Any half sincere Sunni ulema who associate with him are gonna burn their hands later on. Just association with a media clown like aamir liaqath was bad enough, this is like 20 times worse.
 
Pir Ghufran Sialwi hinting at larger conspiracy and hidden hand of "bada ghar", the ultimate power-centre in Pakistan (read, army). There may be some grain of truth in his insinuations given Dr Jalali's growing public profile.

 
AbdalQadir said:
This rabble rousing fitnah causing shaytan is gonna be the new tahirul padri. Just wait and watch, specially after tahir dies!
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I thought he was suffering from coronavirus! All of a sudden, he has made a miraculous recovery. His 'sick' apology issued in June was a spectacle of highest order, as if he was on his death bed.
 
calm down sunnis - and tahir is a big example. those who deviate do their own selves harm. after a couple of decades and huge following etc, he exposed himself badly. we were saying that he was a liar, but common people were skeptical. Allah ta'ala made his lies apparent.

sunniyat will remain and Allah ta'ala will protect it.

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take the wahabis - in spite of the full force of power and money, they eventually lost. in just about a 100 years, wahabi thought is circumscribed and the followers of their hardcore, extremist leaders dissipated. there was a time when bin-baz and albani were ringing everywhere, people were quoting them as if they were next to the saHabah. i remember going to bookshops in Haram al-sharif in 2001; you could only see bin baz or albani editions. merely ten years later, traditional books were back on the shelves.

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take kemalists - in spite of everything they tried to wipe out islam, muslims were suppressed for a while and then there was a resurgence.

the same will happen. after tahir dies, his fitna will die - and people will come back to sunni fold.

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don't worry. islam will always be triumphant.
 
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things were hunky dory, until neem-rafizis infiltrated our ranks. Good old days! I hope sunnis unite again against rafizis/tafdhilis:

Sayyid Irfan Shah Mashhadi on Dr Asif Jalali:

Dr Asif Jalali on Sayyid Irfan Shah Mashhadi:

Sayyid Irfan Shah Mashhadi on Hanif Quraishi:

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Even during the latest conference circus, Shah Sahib can be seen giving Hanif Quraishi a cold shoulder.

Shah sahib has been sinisterly used by peerzadas. I daresay without Shah sahib's weight the anti-Jalali campaign would have fizzled out without even a whimper. He was roped in to lend credibility to peerzadas (Munawwar Jamati et al). It's sad that the rafizi stratagem worked in breaking up the unity and sullying few hard-earned, well-deserved reputations.
 
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Well done to those who kept maligning Jalali sahib until he got locked up and missed the janazah of his own brother!

Well done!

You disgust me. All of you. You don't know basic Sunni aqidah and what constitutes heresy, etc.

IMG-20200727-WA0224.jpg
 
abu Hasan said:
sunniyat will remain and Allah ta'ala will protect it.
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9 min video MUST WATCH

https://www.bitchute.com/video/onHJZVD7KeOE/

https://www.4shared.com/video/fzNu3GM0ea/VID-20200727-WA0049.html

at his hearing in court Jalali blasted the Rawafid and publicly named and shamed those who did gustakhi against the honor of Tawhid, Risalah, Sahaba, and Ahle Bayt themselves.

See this rafidi lose his mind after hearing Jalali's defense of himself in court and blasting his own zakireen as dollar hungry yazeedi stooges!

Absolutely brilliant. Now Irfan Shah and the rest of them will be (or should be) really embarrassed that Jalali alone blasted the Rawafid in court, while they were too busy in group hugs and betraying Sunni creed.
 
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