Fadak and khatā

Waqar786 said:
could have been quashed by two things:
Jalali sahib taking his words back
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That could have meant accepting rafidi pressure and aqaid.

I too said he could have quashed the issue with some hikmah but really it's 100% his right to stick to his stance. He didn't do anything violating Sunni aqaid or even sinful. The word khata has been used even for prophets by scholars.

What the other side was demanding due to their sense of entitlement was simply unfair. That's it.
 
If attributing "khata" was blasphemy, then Irfan Shah sahab too has attributed it to Umm al Momineen raDiyAllahu anha, why he is not being criticized for this blasphemy and being asked to do ruju'
 
Waqar786 said:
He is going to destroy them (academically) in court. Let's see this happen first.

However, I don't see why you're not willing to wait for this issue to play out. Jalali sahib will get his time in court (something that he has repeatedly called for) and then after that, the matter will get decided.
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Since when have secular courts become arbitrators of "intellectual" deeni discussions? Court, even without external pressures and prejudices, has no locus standi on this issue even if Dr Jalali is allowed to present his views. Either party will claim decisive victory, but will that be the denouement? You are naive to think that will be the finishing line.
 
Waqar786 said:
No. When this issue first came out, it could have been quashed by two things:
Jalali sahib taking his words back. The opposition accepting his clarification.
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this is not a property dispute. jalali sahib stood his ground for the principle. the same reason we are supporting him from the beginning and supporting him now. previously, i was not fond of him because of his political activities - though i respected him as a sunni aalim. but one should stand with haqq.

irrespective of jalali sahib's motives (we have good faith unless proven otherwise) the demand of the 'opposition' was unfair in the first place. the woman who started it all by abusing/insulting sayyiduna abu bakr al-siddiq was not even on the radar of the 'opposition'. those who raised the ruckus ARE the maleficent ones. it is they who should have backed down and stepped out of the way.

when robbers attack a house, and a man resists - you don't blame him for getting hurt. "he should have backed off and let them get away instead of resisting which resulted in the robbers burning down the house" is not a valid argument.

but yes, he could have put out the fire without compromising on the principles - as i suggested. apologise for sayyids for their being hurt inadvertently, even though this is not an issue.

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Waqar786 said:
However, I don't see why you're not willing to wait for this issue to play out. Jalali sahib will get his time in court
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you seem to have great faith in courts and judges of our time. i don't.
besides, the court's order is not waHy that i should follow it willy-nilly. the hukm of shara'a al-sharif is obvious and we KNOW it. we don't want a court to tell us that - jalali sahib will be TEACHING it to the court and those sell-outs who filed the FIR and do not seem to have knowledge.

besides, what is there to wait for?

Waqar786 said:
I think the agenda is like Pir Ghufran Syalwi pointed out is to divide Sunnis so that our main political parties can't capitalise on the power vacuum that exists.
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this is something which i have no interest in. scholars should stay away from politics. it is an entirely different discussion but whoever thinks they will restore islam to golden rule of umar ibn al-khattab (raDiyAllahu anhu) or a semblance of it, do not seem to have knowledge of hadith or they probably gloss over it.


bukhari, #7068
bukhari, 6078.png



it will happen only after the coming of imam mahdi.

Allah ta'ala knows best.
 
Waqar786 said:
However, I don't see why you're not willing to wait for this issue to play out. Jalali sahib will get his time in court (something that he has repeatedly called for) and then after that, the matter will get decided
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what sort of a statement - based on what logic - which principle? is this some novel with its own fictitious universe where any arbitrary rule is capable of producing any desired result?
 
One thing that has been overlooked here is Syed Munawwar Jammati's Mubilah challenge to Dr Sahib. On their facebook page, a few scholars supported this. From a Shari point of view, is this even jaiz as I thought it could only be applied in situations of kufr and Islam. Could any brothers shed any light on this matter?
 
Waqar786 said:
One thing that has been overlooked here is Syed Munawwar Jammati's Mubilah challenge to Dr Sahib. On their facebook page, a few scholars supported this. From a Shari point of view, is this even jaiz as I thought it could only be applied in situations of kufr and Islam. Could any brothers shed any light on this matter?
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This challenge is nonsense, mubahala on what? the creed which is established from the time of sahabah raDiyAllahu anhum. First they should prove that it is a gustakhi. why this tafzili minhaji jamati cannot do a munazarah? very sad state of affairs, jahil descendants of piraan e uzzam are destroying the deen of this ummah.
 
It will also be interesting to understand what exactly Pakistan's blasphemy law includes.

Now and again the rafidhis of Pakistan throw all kinds of abuse towards the first 3 Khulafa e Rashideen (ra) and in particular Syeda Ayesha Siddiqua (ra) and get away with it. Whereas Jalali sahib just used the word 'khata' which did not even constitute disrespect and gets thrown into jail!

And coming to this whole jail thing, who the hell makes the decision on whether it constitutes blasphemy or not! Will it be some court judge not well versed in the matters of shariah? Or will it be an ignorant jury panel?
 
shahnawazgm said:
It will also be interesting to understand what exactly Pakistan's blasphemy law includes.

Now and again the rafidhis of Pakistan throw all kinds of abuse towards the first 3 Khulafa e Rashideen (ra) and in particular Syeda Ayesha Siddiqua (ra) and get away with it. Whereas Jalali sahib just used the word 'khata' which did not even constitute disrespect and gets thrown into jail!

And coming to this whole jail thing, who the hell makes the decision on whether it constitutes blasphemy or not! Will it be some court judge not well versed in the matters of shariah? Or will it be an ignorant jury panel?
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These are the laws:

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Attachments

shahnawazgm said:
So it will be section 298A that has been applied. So max imprisonment of 3 years should he be found "guilty"!
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... assuming that that particular charge gets proven.

If you go by Irfan Shah and his rafidi buddies' fantastical extrapolation that attributing khata to Sayyidah is a gustakhi against her and amounts to de jure blasphemy, then they might go for 295-C.

Legal question: If gustakhi against Ahle Bayt, assuming it is proven, amounts to blasphemy against the Prophet 3alaihis salam, then what about gustakhi against the other sacred personages mentioned in 298-A - Ummahaatul Mumineen, Sahaba, Khulafae Rashidin - does that also amount to blasphemy against the Prophet?

If yes then all of 298-A is redundant.

If no, then why include Ahle Bayt in 298-A, and why not include them under 295-C?
 
Linked to this, pir Ghufran Syalwi alleged that he was verbally attacked and surrounded by group of students from the Jamia that Maulwi Hanif Qureshi is linked to during the funeral of pir sahib at Golra sharif. The other side havd denied Syalwi sahib's version of events and both sides are providing 'Witnesses' who are taking a qasm on their version of events. This is what 'learned' Sunnis in Pakistan have sunk to. An embarrassing and sad state of affairs. May Allah most High protect our Iman in this time of fitna. Ameen.
 
AR Ahmed said:
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I never liked irfan shah saahab, but respected him as a sayyid and sunni alim, now he has lost all that respect too. Either he was a covert tafzili shia waiting for the time to create fitnah or has become a shia now, or to the least he is suffering from some mental disease, if that is the case May Allah Ta'ala cure him from this mental disorder.
 
@Noori I think your observation is harsh. Playing fast and loose with a sunni principle does not necessitate what you are suggesting. I have a lot of issues with Shah Sahib's handling of this issue but that does not mean they have become a tafdhli or Shia. Their previous efforts are testament to their aqida. Until they say Sayidah or Ahl ul Bayt are ma'sum, or promote any other tafdhli/shi'i belief, we have no right fo make accusations like you have made. Let's not over react.
 
Unfortunately nowadays the rank of a person is measured by their media appeal and subsequent mass following that occurs due to that rather than the actual deeni ilm they possess.

Irfan Shah came into light first in UK with his stance against the closet shia PAQ of Walthamstow, and from there started coming frequently on ummah channel and gained fame. But throughout this time it was known that he had a very 'Don' like personality with a habit of gaali galoch that has never been a way of any of our pious predecessors. From there ppl started calling him titles like "Hujjut tul Islam' and so on. Honestly can anyone in their right mind compare him to the likes of Imam Ghazali (ra) to be conferred upon with such lofty titles?

Remember, the so called 'principles' that he apparently preached in all those videos, we can clearly see him having broken all of them by closely associating himself with rafidis.

Ala Hazrat has beautifully explained the pitfalls of associating with misled and corrupt ulema in his malfuzat and we can clearly see the effects of those in him where he has become so blinded in spite of the sunni aqaid so clearly explained to him already by several of the senior ulema.
 
Waqar786 said:
@Noori I think your observation is harsh.
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It is very harsh, and I have no regrets. I measure the height of people by the yardstick of the principles of shariah. I respected him despite his foul mouthing because he was a sayed and APPARENTLY a sunni alim, though I did not like his style. Now, since he has crossed the borderline of sunni creed I have the right to change my opinion about him. I don't like jalai sahab either due to his causing political split among ahlussunah, but on shariah matters which are haq I must take his side.

I did not say it before, but I think irfan mashadi sahab would have done better if he was a punjabi movie actor.

If you don't agree with my comments, that is your right, I don't mind.
 
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