Offshoots from khata thread

AbuSulayman said:
I respect Shah Sahib for being a Sayyid and a buzurg. I doubt he'd disown someone just for listening to Tariq Jameel! If he did, I'd lose some respect for him for being narrow minded.
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You have some dark sense of humor!

It's narrow minded for Irfan Shah to be anti-tariq Jameel in your estimation but not narrow minded for him to be anti-Jalali?

Btw, I noticed you didn't mention Tahirul and Iqbal among scholars you admire. If you're such an all rounder to admire Tariq Jameel, some Naqvi guy (rafidi surname), Yassir Qadhi et al, it's outright revolting to not mention my beloved Iqbal!

Also Tahir is more Abu layth than Abu layth himself, I'm shocked you didn't mention him too!
 
AbdalQadir said:
Also Tahir is more Abu layth than Abu layth himself, I'm shocked you didn't mention him too!
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tahir was accidentally missed.

our genius troll simply compiled a list of all mubtadis and a few gray-liners who have been refuted on this forum - and then said:

I follow everyone of these in "some or the other aspects that I find logical (by his own definition, mind you) - which is more in comparison to their mistakes (personal dictionary again) - and since you guys banish them wholesale, I am balanced and broad-minded (and large-hearted) and y'all are narrow-minded groupie zealots"​

Then to put in some tikka-masala, says he, "I like sh. asrar too - but he is oh-so-serious all the time. Doesn't indulge in edutainment like I do - what a bore!"

Like a seasoned troll, he's pressed all the right buttons - and now the entertainment begins ...

Just watch them scramble to refute me and scream "off with his head - the knave!"
 
Anyone else who enjoys such low-quality entertainment can do a similar experiment:

1. Register at any wahabi or rafidi forum and say: "I've been around quite a while - I know you all very well".

2. Praise Alahazrat and other sunni ulama like shah abdal aziz dehlavi or Imam subki for refuting ibn taymiyyah

3. Post some videos of hashmi miya or jalali sab etc.

4. Name a few sunnis whom they have "refuted" on their forums and say: I agree with them, they are academic, they are intellectual etc. you all are nasibis, kharijis, batinis etc. (choose a term to suit your audience)

5. If possible, get a fellow prankster to join in the thread and say he agrees with you - despite himself being an admirer of ibn abdul wahab or khomeini etc.

6. Regsiter with another username and refute your own posts with weak arguments and burn some strawmen - then go back and pound your alter-ego handsomely.

After this initial setup - you are done. Just sit back and watch the fun.

And oh yes, do remember to stoke the fire every few days, otherwise it will burn itself out.

Just to irk them more, whenever someone responds angrily to you, accuse them of being impatient, un-academic or, to borrow tariq's daft coinage, "lyrical gangsterism" - lol speak of adding insult to injury.

When you have had your laugh, wrap up and leave. Don't ever login with the same usernames again.

You can repeat these steps on multiple forums and/or with gaps of every few months/years on each of them - whenever your fancy flies to dabbling in a bit of trolling.

ta-da!
 
I have a suspicion that this troll is no other than Hasanayn (Nawazuddin / Objective Enquirer) to get a reaction out of people. That's why he has thrown in his father's name amongst all those 'ulema' he follows when the fact is that Zahid Shah is a forgotten nobody in UK since many years now who only came to light those years ago being a sidekick to PAQ of Walthamstow.
 
shahnawazgm said:
Hasanayn (Nawazuddin / Objective Enquirer)
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I believe it's naqshbandijamati. He can be called taqiyyabaz too, only in a different dimension.

To me, AbuS' posts stink not of hasanayn's bughz, but of nj's typically misguided zandaqah and 'their karaamaat will rescue me' shortcuts. Who needs to pray or fast or hold fast to the aqaid of the Ahlus Sunnah when you can just kiss Hazrat Ali's and Imam Husayn's shoes, listen to marsiyas in Muharram, and rely on Ghawthe Azam's karaamaat (Radi Allahu 3anhum) to walk on water?

I think he's meticulously avoided mentioning tahir (admired as an icon by both naqshbandijamati as well as hasanayn) and Iqbal (a trademark of nj's forum activity that will make him stick out like a sore thumb).

Yasir Qadhi, scientific approach to Fatawa, modern zeitgeist, Tariq Jameel's all too popular form more important than function*, etc. All typical nj topics. I don't think hasanayn would so openly list out some Naqvi character and expose himself.

Besides, nj loves to entertain me. Hasanayn would've never done that.

Even his 'how can you defend the murderers' spiel on the other thread is not from a Shia perspective, but rather from a typical deer in the headlights nj perspective where he sees his mantra of 'karaamaat of akabireen are shortcuts to deeni and duniyawi victory, regardless of aqaid or worships or hard work or anything' crashing head on.

*He touched on a good point or two. Good form has its place along with good function, something all of us Desi Sunnis say and self criticize our "system" on this forum
 
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AbdalQadir said:
I believe it's naqshbandijamati.
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I almost forgot about him, he hasn't posted since many years!

However one thing is for sure based on his posts, this troll is somebody who has been visiting this forum since several years as he vividly recollects all past topics on the forum.
 
i don't think it is NJ.

he wrote to me some time ago and said that he has repented from all those deviations from yanabi days and he now follows traditional sunni approach. i have no reason not to believe him.

he despises the clown abu layth because, he asked me to write 'a refutation of that clown'. and this was a few months ago.

AbdalQadir said:
He can be called taqiyyabaz too, only in a different dimension.
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brother AQ, he has moved on and we have been messaging now and then. it is not fair to skewer him for things he has recanted. let us be fair and not speculate. to the best of my knowledge, by his own admission, NJ is now a traditional rizwi.

some friends hinted that it could be hasanayn, as he AbS uses similar expressions and limited ideas - but i have my doubts because of the abu-layth admiration. it could be a red herring, but i don't think hasanayn would mention him even as camouflage, because of the razor-punks revolting attacks on mawla ali raDiyAllahu anhu.

Allah knows best.
 
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@abu Hasan I don't think we should bother wasting our time on this troll further.
We are currently seeing those who oppose Syed Irfan Shah's stance being labelled as haters of Ahl ul Bayt and Nasabis. They are misquoting texts to exonerate their shaykh and instead charge Sunni ulema with having Nasabi traits. We are better off tacking this if you got time @abu Hasan. Trolls will come and go.
 
Waqar786 said:
They are misquoting texts to exonerate their shaykh and instead charge Sunni ulema with having Nasabi traits.
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cannot stop them from their accusations, but we will examine the texts quoted; and we will see how reading ability is not sufficient to impart knowledge.

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we will analyse nabeel's talk, in sha'Allah. it is a bit sad that we have to refute someone who was on the same side not long ago.

wAllahu'l musta'an.
 
abu Hasan said:
to the best of my knowledge, by his own admission, NJ is now a traditional rizwi.
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that is indeed happy news for him more than anyone else, as well as for us, and if that is so, then indeed i too recant my views of him and apologize to him in case he sees this post.

we're not for or against anyone just for the sake it. our guiding light is the aqidah of the Ahlus Sunnah, nothing else.

i also had another troll in mind, a devbandi airhead who loves to come to this forum and disagree only for the sake of disagreeing with 'hum bareli waley'. he's fully capable of shamelessly mentioning the shuhadae karbala only to try and blackmail us, and then laugh at us with comments like "I doubt he'd disown someone just for listening to Tariq Jameel! If he did, I'd lose some respect for him for being narrow minded" but khayr let it be.
 
@AQ, abu'l hassan,

I'm not the people who you think i am. I am not hasnayn shah but i know him and admire him. i am not whoever NJ is either. i am a sunni not a barelwi. i admire ahmed raza khan sahib though but that doesn't mean i agree with him on every little thing. for example, iman of hazrat abu talib (a.s.)
you asked me to list some scholars/sources and i just made a list of those whom i listen to or read on the net etc. it wasn't exhaustive. i don't hate tahirul qadri but i find him to be too much of a politician for my taste.

i didn't say i admired everything about abu layth. his defence of amir e shaam by trying to blame mawla ali a.s. was disgusting but it doesn't mean everytihng he says is therefore automatically wrong. same as i disagree with tariq jameel or with allama syed jawad naqvi -who is a 12er - on many issues but it doesnt mean i cant benefit from him. Allah gave us a brain to use. it doesn't make me a shia! i support syed irfan shah and shaykh nabeel on the issue of fadak but it doesn't mean that means i follow him on every issue. i already said though dr. jalali did a gustakhi it doesn't make it right to imprison him. if by iqbal you mean allama iqbal i like some of his poems like many people do.

i don't like telling strangers on the net about me but it is sufficient for you to know i am a hussaini sunni (i follow the alawi sunnah not the ummawi sunnah though!) but not a barelvi, a pakistani nationalist, and a mureed of golra sharif.

the only reason i posted initially was that i was shocked to see no thread in muharram on a self declared barelvi forum whereas in pakistan these views would get you lynched by the average barelvi on the street for being nasibis and making excuses for the murderers of sayyid al shuhadaa alayhisalam.
 
AbuSulayman said:
you asked me to list some scholars/sources and i just made a list of those whom i listen to or read on the net etc.
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Actually, as far as I'm concerned, I asked you for specific references and citations for specific points you made. See my post # 14 again. You chose to drop a bunch of names instead without any direct, pinpointed references. You can still give your references if you so wish. I won't hold my breath though.
 
@AQ
i did partially so far. sorry if you didn't see it. you asked for reference about a for why only imam ali, imam hassan, imam hussain and bibi fatima are mahfuz to that degree of near masoom and not any other sahaba and the reference i gave was the hadith from sahih muslim:

God's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: God desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you [thorough purifying]" ....Muslim, Book 031, Number 5955.

You asked a reference for the different types of ahle bait. i said the reference was a talk by dr. pir sayyid mufakkir e islam abdul qadir shah sahib. i will try to find it and put the link if its still on youtube.

You asked a reference for the panjtan being mahfuz touching the boundaries of masoom and i said i heard it directly from the late great pir syed naseeruddin naseer shah sahib at victoria park mosque in manchester. he said it directly about imam hussain but by logical extension it applies to the other 3 too (the prophet is intrinsically masoom already).

i will try to find references/links for my beliefs whenever i can.

you as
AbdalQadir said:
Actually, as far as I'm concerned, I asked you for specific references and citations for specific points you made. See my post # 14 again. You chose to drop a bunch of names instead without any direct, pinpointed references. You can still give your references if you so wish. I won't hold my breath though.
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I heard that this 'refutation' only exists in the minds of the people on this forum, not in the UK sunni public or in Pakistan!
Shah Sahib is still followed and respected and even Sayyid Irfan Shah sahib has moved closer to our position so you've now started hating syed irfan shah sahib too!
 
AbuSulayman said:
I heard that this 'refutation' only exists in the minds of the people on this forum,
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use the search function on the forum. PAQS is so laughable that in one specific case, a clip of 3-4 minutes, i found every line to have multiple errors. here is a link for your amusement:

http://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/pir-abdul-qadir-jillani-attacks-imam-bukhari.6799/page-4

indo-pak speech makers (urdu speaking) are sort of lucky, that i do not have time to waste. [brothers have been advising me to keep away from these arguments on the forum] if i begin doing fact checking of their claims, their citations, their interpretations, you would find very few who could stand the competence test.

nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
 
AbuSulayman said:
Sayyid Irfan Shah sahib has moved closer to our position so you've now started hating syed irfan shah sahib too!
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be-haya'yi is the hallmark of baTil firaq. no one 'hated' irfan shah for moving closer to tafzili pir abdul qadir's position. i doubt he has, but if he indeed has, it is HIS loss.

irfan shah was refuted for causing a needless fitnah on a trivial issue AND the bigger mistake of contributing to shiah agenda (whether he was used or whether he joined knowingly, Allah knows best.)

rawafiD aur tafziliyon ka radd hoga aur ahl e sunnat ghalib rahenge.

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a good friend asked me to translate this poem of iqbal, which i didn't get time to; but here is the nazm and to think not much has changed in the past 80-90 years!

punjab pirzade.png
 
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