Mufti Fazl Chisti and his critics

[AbdalQadir]

Mufti Fazal Ahmad Chishti's name has Qadri Ridawi at the end of it indicating his tariqah.

So then it appears to me his surname is Chishti (not silsila), which would imply he's a Sayyid.

If someone knows, can they please confirm.

It's great if he's a Sayyid, because that only makes it that much harder for the other side to throw the Sayyid blackmail/dhandli at him.

 

[Waqar786]

To be fair Mufti Fazal Chisti gets to the heart of the issues and academically picks apart the fallacies of the opposition. This latest one completely destroyed Shah sahib's stance.

 

[sherkhan]

I am not familiar with relative standing (hall of fame) of Pakistani ulemas. SR Studio youtube channel (featuring Mufti Fazl Chishti's lectures) have very few views. In fact, he was never referenced on this forum before the outbreak of anti-Jalali campaign. It appears that he is not very widely followed outside his local area of influence (where he seems to receive very grand reception at well-attended gatherings). He also appears have debated deviant wahabis and shias.

I am not sure how Mufti Fazl Chishti is placed within the ulema politics-scape. Either the tafdhili/rafidhi camp is scared of taking him on or they can afford to ignore him. Otherwise, since the start of the campaign, no ulema has made as telling and well-researched (and superbly marshalled) arguments as Mufti sahab. He is heads and shoulder above the whole lot of "famed" ulemas.

Especially on the topic of Sayyiduna Amir Muawiya (radiAllahu anhu) and sukoot regarding Yazeed, I, as a layman, used to suffer from few misconceptions in the absence of access to proper/unbiased presentation of historical context/works. Thanks to latest series of lectures, I stand disabused.

 

[Waqar786]

@sherkhan Watch the video below from 3 minutes to 6 minutes. I think this will explain why Mufti sahib is on the fringes.

 

[AbdalQadir]

@sherkhan Watch the video below from 3 minutes to 6 minutes. I think this will explain why Mufti sahib is on the fringes.

I saw the video from 3 min till the end.

From 3 to 6 mins he said Fazal Chishti is on the fringes because of his extremist stances and errors in the past

1. He (FC) says (or said in the past) anyone who goes to school is kafir - I find it extremely unbelievable even if such things are attributed to his 'extremist' past. Going by Fazal Chishti's knowledge of Fatawa Ridawiyya and how he handled this khata topic, and considering that even Ala Hazrat or Huzur Mufti Aazam Hind, never passed such Fatawa re school, I honestly feel this is probably unfair propaganda against him.

2. He did takfeer and/or spoke against some akabireen of Ahlus Sunnah - which akabireen? Ala Hazrat or Shah Abdülaziz or Fazle Haq Khayrabadi or Mihr Ali Shah and those in that league or higher? Or the 'akabireen' of QTV and PTV like Muzaffar Shah, Amir Liaqath, Kaukab Noorani et al?

3. He retracted from his stance on video - great (personally I support pro-video Fatawa for our times), but what does that have to do with aqaid and usul of Ahlus Sunnah? It's a fiqh position.

4. What were his mistakes based on extremist tendencies? No info given.

5. He says very sweetly that it's no big deal gaining knowledge, but we should have the mental capacity to sustain it. A very sweet and muaddabana way to call Fazal Chishti as the ibn taymiyya of the Sunnis (his knowledge superceded his intelligence).

Sorry but unless those claims are substantiated, I smell a very sweet and muaddabana expression of bughz or jealousy.

Nothing Fazal Chishti said about this khata issue or re Ameer Mu3awiyah, radi Allahu 3anhu, can be construed as extremist.

I would urge the hazrat in the video to either shoot straight or keep silent. Please spare the awam. Our respect and patience for people who speak in riddles has collapsed.

 

[sherkhan]

I saw the video from 3 min till the end.

From 3 to 6 mins he said Fazal Chishti is on the fringes because of his extremist stances and errors in the past

One of the Mufti sahab's "extreme" positions is on vaccination, a point that you had picked up on couple of months back. Some of the other (so-called contentious) issues are probably bit like neck-tie, microphone, photography/videography etc.

I personally don't know about the school issue. May be, he takes a dim view of liberal, modernist education, which we all know can be contrary to puritanical view.

Here and there, Mufti sahab has hinted that it is wajib to do hijrah from western lands where it is almost impossible to avoid being exposed to western mores (nudity, shamelessness etc.); for that he holds these UK, Canada based ulemas (especially those being neem-rafidhis) as being hypocrites. Fair point, even though many contemporary ulemas would steer clear of being so categorical.

Mufti Fazl Chishti can be caustic at times, but as long as it is reserved for deviants and sell-out maulvis he is within his rights to do so. Elsewhere, I had heard Mawlana Samar Abbas Attari air his reservations against Mufti sahab for his abrasive behaviour. On khata ijtihadi issue, both Mufti Fazl Chishti and Dr Asif Jalali have the same stance, but neither party will openly acknowledge support/commonality.

Mufti sahab can also be heard referring to Mufti Ahmad Yaar Khan Naeemi as Mufti Ahmad Yaar Khan 'Gujrati', Dr Jalali as "Dr Lahori", Dawat-e-Islami as "sabz imamah wale". That's probably his peculiar "style".

Per se, I don't think Mufti sahab holds any opinion contrary to "traditional" sunni views, even though he may not have "moved with times".

 

[AbdalQadir]

Per se, I don't think Mufti sahab holds any opinion contrary to "traditional" sunni views, even though he may not have "moved with times".

You have my vote. Agree with all you said. Thanks for reminding me re that vaccination thing.

Again, I urge the hazrat in that video (speaking against Mufti Fazal) to please compare apples to apples.

Keep issues of aqaid, imaniyat, kufriyat, Sunni usul and principles in one basket. (Passing kufr fatwa on school goers would come here). From the little I've seen of him on these matters, it wouldn't just be 'extremist', it would be zulm on our part to call him extremist.

Put issues of fiqh in another basket. (Videos, vaccination being haram or halal etc.)

Personally, as long as he's firm on Sunni aqaid and imaniyat, I would look the other way on his aberrations in fiqh on issues like vaccination etc. unless he just did wanton takfeer/tabdee3 on such issues.

 

[sherkhan]

1. He (FC) says (or said in the past) anyone who goes to school is kafir - I find it extremely unbelievable even if such things are attributed to his 'extremist' past.

Probably a clarification here. I don't understand punjabi well enough to understand what the video says.

 

[abu Hasan]

I smell a very sweet and muaddabana expression of bughz or jealousy.

unfair accusation. there are many times we do not 'expose' the flaws of ulama and just a hint given indicating that we do not agree with everything he says.

i do not know about the younger mufti sahib either. but attacking him just because mufti fazl chishti is the hero du jour and anyone who criticises him must be jealous or bear hatred towards him, is difficult to accept.

mufti fazl chishti in one of his talks said that chaman zaman had more knowledge than dr. asif jalali. going by two books of chaman zaman, i was wondering how did he come to this conclusion. if those two books are indeed written by chaman zaman, (and mufti fazl mentions them both) he comes about as incapable of putting 2 and 2 together. absurd arguments and logical fallacies galore, a bit like "through the looking glass".

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What were his mistakes based on extremist tendencies?

fair question. it would shine if it weren't clouded by insinuations and accusations of jealousy.

He says very sweetly that it's no big deal gaining knowledge, but we should have the mental capacity to sustain it. A very sweet and muaddabana way to call Fazal Chishti as the ibn taymiyya of the Sunnis (his knowledge superceded his intelligence).

again jumping the gun.

the availability of books today are maybe 100 times greater than say 20 years. and PDFs being easily available have given unprecedented access to knowledge. to tell the truth, many earlier ulama did not have access to so many books (except those who had personal libraries and/or attached themselves to madaris with big libraries). but their thinking was clear.

while we all have a tendency to bring as many quotes as possible from various works (usually to indicate that it is not an isolated position), merely quoting from dozens of works is only the first level. much like people doing cut-n-paste from here and there. the higher levels would entail one to know the positions of the author, his other works, his inclinations, whether his positions changed in later works, what others have said about him/his work/his positions. this is still about riwayah, which like a boat. the more the planks the bigger the boat, and more chances of stability. dirayah is like navigating the seas. one learns over a period of time.

in that sense the other mufti sahib (criticising mufti fazl) is not off the mark saying merely lots of knowledge is not sufficient. i would take it as a generic comment and even an oblique criticism of mufti fazl. but one should not take it as jealousy unless there is demonstrable proof for the same.

ever since mufti fazl's talks are being posted on these issues, i have sort of stepped back. he appears to be a capable mufti and is presenting it well. my 2c are not needed. yet, when i watched the irfan shah critique (of the tasleem sabri interview) i felt he could have touched on some more issues. mufti fazl has himself says in that clip that a comprehensive analysis would show more problems.

being judgemental (on cursory glance) dismissive and condescending of peers (english peer) is not the way of our ulama.

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sub'HanAllah, this is also a prophecy fulfilled. RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said "books will be abundant, knowledge scarce". you will see people sitting in front of huge libraries but make childish mistakes.

nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.

Nothing Fazal Chishti said about this khata issue or re Ameer Mu3awiyah, radi Allahu 3anhu, can be construed as extremist.

did he say that? where is YOUR logic? he only said that he has some 'strong opinions' - shiddat - not extremist views which usually is a translation of ghuluww.

shiddat would be: very strict, extremely conservative, tough, unreasonable, impractical etc. and in a proper context even extremist can be a possible translation.

I would urge the hazrat in the video to either shoot straight or keep silent.

why have you forgotten your own advice of muridin not wanting to listen to any criticism of the 'peer'?

the other mufti sahib answered a question and if you are unbiased, you will have to admit that he answered it in a scholarly manner.

he openly accepted that mufti fazl is a sunni scholar. he indicated that he has lots of knowledge. and he hinted that he has some 'extremist' opinions. and he moved on. it appears that he was replying to queries.

but you DEMAND all the details here and now or 'keep silent'. would you do the same for mufti fazl sahib? for every comment of his "lahori doctor" or others whom he addresses in a supremely condescending manner. as sherkhan said, if this is limited to only deviants it is fine, but if he speaks about fellow ulama in the same tone, he can probably rationalise it, but it is certainly not the manner of ulama.

khayr.

وعين الرضا عن كل عيب كليلة

 

[abu Hasan]

it would be zulm on our part to call him extremist.

it would be zulm to attribute the critic mufti sahib of things that he did not say and then slam him.

did he say that mufti fazl was an extremist? just asking. perhaps i didn't hear properly.

mufti sahib says: "mufti fazl chishti sahib ahl e sunnat wa jama'at ke bahut baDe aalim hain."

"unki guftagu ke andar shiddat intiha darje ki hai"

he is qualifying it as "strong speech" or "harsh" in his speech, but you are generalising it to 'extremist'.

mahlan bhai, mahlan.

 

[abu Hasan]

I would look the other way on his aberrations in fiqh on issues like vaccination etc. unless he just did wanton takfeer/tabdee3 on such issues.

interestingly, that is what will be expected from mufti fazl sahib. as long as people are firm on sunni aqa'id, fiqh issues should be treated as admissible difference of opinion. yeh hamara fatwa hai, ye unka hai.

 

[Brother Barry]

Although I think FC has done a good job in pulling up Irfani Mia and company on their shenanigans.

He has in the past attributed clear lies against Maulana Ilyas Qadiri. He even compared him to Ashraf thanvi devbandi.

I've never heard that he's repented for those lies and I believe like neefa rafizi of pindi he should publicly repent and apologies for these things.

 

[abu Hasan]

it might appear out of place but please bear with me. it is immensely necessary to read books on adab of ilm from the very beginning. it will help one keep their head down. i have compiled them in the ridawi student pack.

these books are vaccinations against hundreds of viruses that attack ulama. every student and scholar should not only read these books, but keep reading them from time to time.

some of these are short monographs that one can finish in a couple of hours.

https://archive.org/details/RidawiStudentPack

ADAB books in RAR: https://archive.org/download/RidawiStudentPack/0 adab.rar

 

[Brother Barry]

This is what's actually written in the booklet Aadab e Madina

 

[sherkhan]

The speaker critiquing Mufti Fazl Chishti is partisan and clearly belongs to Dr Jalali camp. I am not promoting factionalism, but simply reading the situation. Is speaker's view a coloured (due to partisanship) opinion or is it factually correct? From far and outside, it appears that there's a history/undercurrent of animosity between 2 sides. Sad truth is that people these days promote factional views rather than present balanced/complete picture; everybody is grinding their own axe. So AQ is probably justified in taking speaker's claims about Mufti sahab's shiddat (in the absence of full details and supporting evidences) with a pinch of salt.

As I said before (on the evidence of his recent lecture videos), Mufti Fazl may appear trenchant, less tactful and "old-fashioned" at times, but there is no denying his ability to marshal facts and articulate suitable response. On recent matters (khata ijtihadi, Pir Mihr Ali Shah's ibarat, yazeed etc.), his arguments are clear and self-consistent unlike several others who have proffered their views. I have also found him very honest/rigorous with facts, sources and owning his own errors (as can be seen here, where he issues a corrigenda to his own recent book). His recent fatwa on showering notes attest to his affiliation to the maslak.

Of late, Mufti sahab has moved on from referring Dr Jalali as Dr Lahori to Dr Ashraf. He takes dim view of Allama Ghulam Rasool Saeedi, but he is probably justified in doing so given latter's numerous lapses. Mufti sahab seems a strong opponent of colonial mindset, modern education, "yahoodi agenda" etc., but that's hardly enough to accuse him for extreme views. This would probably open doors for similar charges against ulemas of yore, who stuck to traditional ways of life.

What actually is his case against modern schooling is probably there in the video that I linked earlier (but is beyond my comprehension).

 

[Brother Barry]

Here in this video FC accused Di of being Sullah kulli and murtad because they are on paper non sectarian. He takes that to mean that they agree everyone from every sect is correct and then rambles against their channel etc.

His language is just as bad as irfani Mia's.

Again he needs to publicly repent for these unjust allegations against someone who is of correct Aqeeda.

 

[sherkhan]

DI's non-partisanship and avoidance of open/strong views against deobandi/rafidhis etc. has never been popular with polemic-minded ulemas of subcontinent.

From Mufti Muneeb ur-Rahman to Huzoor Taj us-Shariah to Mufti Fazl, several ulemas have voiced their reservations against DI and Mawlana Ilyas Attari. It may sound churlish/petty at times, and justified at other (times).

I personally don't like partisanship, dogmatism and such open airing of differences, but that's the ground reality. It's clearly a case of "my way or the highway" approach; and hardly anyone is above board in this regard. Even with such rife disunity (and enemies taking open advantage of it), our religious leaders haven't learnt better.

 

[Brother Barry]

DI's non-partisanship and avoidance of open/strong views against deobandi/rafidhis etc. has never been popular with polemic-minded ulemas of subcontinent.

From Mufti Muneeb ur-Rahman to Huzoor Taj us-Shariah to Mufti Fazl, several ulemas have voiced their reservations against DI and Mawlana Ilyas Attari. It may sound churlish/petty at times, and justified at other (times).

I personally don't like partisanship, dogmatism and such open airing of differences, but that's the ground reality. It's clearly a case of "my way or the highway" approach; and hardly anyone is above board in this regard. Even with such rife disunity (and enemies taking open advantage of it), our religious leaders haven't learnt better.

I don't agree with Di myself on many things and I understand that many Ulama may not find their methods to their taste but to use their being non sectarian on paper as a excuse to label them sullah kulli and murtad I find disgusting.

Not forgetting his false allegations in the first video I posted.

 

[abu Hasan]

DI's non-partisanship and avoidance of open/strong views against deobandi/rafidhis etc.

everyone wants everyone else to do everything. if they are not doing something, they are criticised for it.

other than DI, no other sunni organisation is working at the grassroots level. teaching basic aqidah, namaz-rozah, etc. [ofc SDI, which is anyway an offshoot of DI even if the SDI brothers vehemently deny it]. why don't all these critics of DI come down to the streets and gather people and work with them? is it possible for them to do it?

DI have their flaws - and they too behave like a cult, but like everybody, they are doing some part of work; shouldering an important responsibility.

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again and again i insist on reading those books - for they contain anecdotes, insights and advice from great men.

we must not think of building a new machine, or taking control of the machine or being the machine itself. we must think of ourselves as a small cog in a complex and a huge machine that requires many components - and acknowledging that it is not possible for any one wheel to be the sole and whole driver of the machine.

once we identify our place, we should diligently try to do our job. yes, some cogs behave erratically, misaligned or damaged - but so long as they remain in the machine doing their job even if they are inefficient, we should continue to work alongside.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

 

[AbdalQadir]

other than DI, no other sunni organisation is working at the grassroots level. teaching basic aqidah, namaz-rozah, etc. [ofc SDI, which is anyway an offshoot of DI even if the SDI brothers vehemently deny it]. why don't all these critics of DI come down to the streets and gather people and work with them? is it possible for them to do it?

DI have their flaws - and they too behave like a cult, but like everybody, they are doing some part of work; and an important part.

People against DI keep forgetting the actual reason DI was formed.

Like countries have armies, navies, air forces to counter the effects of their respective enemies' respective forces, same case here.

It's idiotic to say we don't need an air force because they anyway mainly strike targets on ground, and we have an army for that.

Your larger machine and we are all components example is very apt.

DI was formed specifically to counter the effects of the devbandi menace of tablighi Jamat and the wahabi nuisance of their own dawah by young disillusioned boys.

DI is only aimed at tackling the common man on the street and offering him a Sunni dawah & tabligh so that he doesn't get eaten by wolves.

Actually, the devs themselves are against tablighi Jamat for not following khanqah style mureedi, madrasas style Ifta, zameel style polemic "rebuttals" and so on. Listen to this below leaked audio from tarık zaleel to get a feel for what their tablighi Jamat is about, and maybe the anti-DI folks might appreciate their modus operandi somewhat

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will reply to some of the other posts re FC AJ etc later