abu nibras
Staff member
Ridawi Press - Phone friendly release to common objections on commemorating Mawlid.
Answering Objections about Mawlid - Mobile Graphics
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Are these the strongest evidences and arguments for the permissibility of celebrating the mawlid? Full disclosure, I hold the mawlid as permissible at the least.
What if someone takes the view that the first three generations didn't celebrate mawlid of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم so they don't see it as necessary to do so without saying it is bidah or otherwise or they might say it is bidah hasanah. By celebrating mawlid they mean selecting a specific date/month in the calendar in preference over others not merely for convenience.
Is there any evidence at all of any amongst the righteous first three generations that they did any spefic action with the intention of celebrating the birth of our Nabi صلى الله عليه وسلم or to express gratitude? An objection I've often heard goes something like this.
We all agree that Quran, Sunnah and understanding of the Salaf is to be followed alongside the schools of the 4 imams.
If there is no evidence for none of the aforementioned group doing any specific action to celebrate, commemorate express gratitude on the birth of our nabi صلى الله عليه وسلم then that means we somehow love the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم more than they did. We are doing something in addition to what they did but are leaving things which have clear text proofs like praying tahajjud.
If mawlid was so beneficial to celebrate it would have clear text proofs and a long tradition right to the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم including clear and direct instructions from the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself to celebrate it. There are none and the practice of the mawlid as it is commonly celebrated started much past the time of the salaf.
For most of the people who present an argument like this, what I normally say is, of the all the mawlid gatherings I've attended or seen in multiple countries of peoples of many different ethnic backgrounds and cultures I have seldom seen anything but praiseworthy actions such as recitation of quran, poetry in praise of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, talks about his life, dua, zikr, salawat.
If some day, mawlid gatherings become places full of the opposite of virtue and guidance, perhaps the ruling will change from permissibility.
What if someone takes the view that the first three generations didn't celebrate mawlid of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم so they don't see it as necessary to do so without saying it is bidah or otherwise or they might say it is bidah hasanah. By celebrating mawlid they mean selecting a specific date/month in the calendar in preference over others not merely for convenience.
Is there any evidence at all of any amongst the righteous first three generations that they did any spefic action with the intention of celebrating the birth of our Nabi صلى الله عليه وسلم or to express gratitude? An objection I've often heard goes something like this.
We all agree that Quran, Sunnah and understanding of the Salaf is to be followed alongside the schools of the 4 imams.
If there is no evidence for none of the aforementioned group doing any specific action to celebrate, commemorate express gratitude on the birth of our nabi صلى الله عليه وسلم then that means we somehow love the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم more than they did. We are doing something in addition to what they did but are leaving things which have clear text proofs like praying tahajjud.
If mawlid was so beneficial to celebrate it would have clear text proofs and a long tradition right to the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم including clear and direct instructions from the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself to celebrate it. There are none and the practice of the mawlid as it is commonly celebrated started much past the time of the salaf.
For most of the people who present an argument like this, what I normally say is, of the all the mawlid gatherings I've attended or seen in multiple countries of peoples of many different ethnic backgrounds and cultures I have seldom seen anything but praiseworthy actions such as recitation of quran, poetry in praise of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, talks about his life, dua, zikr, salawat.
If some day, mawlid gatherings become places full of the opposite of virtue and guidance, perhaps the ruling will change from permissibility.
abu Hasan
Administrator
where is this rule of 'first three generations or bust' in the first three generations?
It would seem stronger evidence that if the earliest pious Muslims did something of religious observance, we should also do it or try to do and if they didn't do something then we don't need to do it either? Or put another way, if someone lives their whole life not having attended or celebrated mawlid, is this okay? Given mawlid is viewed as permissible then I would think abstaining would be okay?
Unless there are matters which are practiced now that were not practiced by those earliest generations that are similar or more virtuous?
abu Hasan
Administrator
one can abstain from arabic grammar and hadith commentaries as well, because they were not present in the first 3 generations.
earliest pious muslims spent their day in and day out reading and teaching hadith - imam al-shafiyi is attributed with the following lines:
كُلُّ العُلومِ سِوى القُرآنِ مَشغَلَةٌ
إِلّا الحَديثَ وَعِلمَ الفِقهِ في الدينِ
العِلمُ ما كانَ فيهِ قالَ حَدَّثَنا
وَما سِوى ذاكَ وَسواسُ الشَياطينِ
all kinds of knowledge other than the qur'an is exercise in futility
except hadith and except fiqh (understanding of religion)
knowledge is only that, when one says: "it was narrated to us"
other than this, everything else is whispering of the devil.
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their days were spent remembering the Prophet ﷺ at all times. so there was no need to highlight the month of his birth and the day of his birth - to remind muslims on their obligation of loving and obeying him.
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a juzy'yyah in fiqh - that if a mufti is so inundated by questions, that he has no time to finish his work, he is exempt from the sunnah mu'akkadah even (except fajr).
alahazrat says: 'my current state and workload satisfies that condition - however, i do not omit sunan muakkadah'
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so one cannot justify omitting sunan muakkadah looking at such a mufti's state (supposing he omits it).
elaborating on that: are you doing everything the salaf did and abstain from everything they abstained from?
and if 12 of your 24 hours are entirely compatible with the life of the salaf - you can probably make that claim. else, it is like a guy clean-shaven, who watches movies, hangs around with women, has basic idea of quran and hadith, cannot even pray properly - with tajwid and fully according to any one madh'hab - does a thousand haram or makruh tahrimi things; but when it comes to mawlid - he preaches on how we cannot do anything that the salaf did not!
[disclaimer: this is not aimed @Aurangzeb - he has already clarified. this is about the 1001 deobandi/wahabi zayd and amr who pontificate on how mawlid was not celebrated by the salaf].
in the developed world - 99% of restaurants and fast food companies use frozen chicken - predominantly machine slaughtered. few people worry about it - especially in the middle-east. but when it comes to mawlid - they talk as if this is the only thing that has remained at variance from the practice of the salaf.
interest based trading and banking and mortgages and hundred other 'compulsions' of modern age? the salaf didn't face what we do.
but when it comes to mawlid, did the salaf celebrate it?
people build grand masjids - spending millions on decorations and furnishing. was this common among salaf? in fact, it is among portents of judgement day that muslims will decorate their masajid like the people of the book decorate their places of worship.
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then comes delusions of grandeur.
apparently present day mawlid deniers are more knowledgeable in hadith, and have more clarity about bid'ah and sunnah and are better in following the example of the salaf than people like imam abu shamah, imam subki and imam suyuti.
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oh certainly. is it fard wajib or even sunnah of the salaf to read sirah works?
can anyone live their whole life having read a single book of sirah or sat in a lecture about the biography of the Prophet ﷺ?
as said above - how many waking hours did the salaf spend for religion, and in remembrance of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam - talking about him, discussing his life, thinking about his sunnah, and how many do you spend? if it is the same, your argument about the mawlid may be valid for those who do that.
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the conclusion of devilish whispers in the above argument is - that a hadith of the Prophet ﷺ, that he commemorated it by fasting every monday - and the group of sahabah speaking about the great fortune of the Prophet's ﷺ coming - or the qur'anic verse of remembering the birth of Prophets alayhimus salam - or the injunction to celebrate the favours of Allah - is not enough. they need proof from the salaf for it!
sub'HanAllah! that is to deny the expression of happiness on the birth of the Prophet ﷺ, they are willing to ignore proof from the qur'an and sunnah! as if every waking moment of the salaf was recorded - so let us turn this around. bring us proof from the spech of salaf that "celebrating mawlid is bidah."
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abu Hasan
Administrator
i can also dismiss objections summarily. are these the strongest objections you have for denying mawlid?
in our times, such a person is a shameless hypocrite. he acts as if every single action he does is explicitly found - in exact form and shape - in the actions of salaf.
this someone thinks he knows more about sunnah and bid'ah than the salaf themselves - either this or imam shafiyi was not among the salaf according to this deluded moron.
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plenty of water has flown down the bridge when the first imbecile came up with this moronic objection.
look up books for this answer.
how?
in other words, since sahih bukhari was not found among sahabah - perhaps imam bukhari was more pious and concerned about preserving the sunnah than abu bakr al-siddiq. in other words, imam bukhari was more pious than abu bakr al-siddiq raDi'Allah anhu. right? else why refer to a book that the sahabah didn't refer to?
yes of course. there are probably dozen hadith that instruct the ummah to stick to sahih bukhari, read it, teach it and write commentaries upon it. if you do not find anything in the qur'an, find it in sahih bukhari. is this the case?
also there was a clear instruction to the sahabah to compile the qur'an, diacritics and dots and various markers for wuquf etc.
'long tradition' - please give us a clear instruction of when was the gazette issued for this long tradition to begin and where does it end? what date?
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this is a lie. where is any explicit condemnation of 'celebrating mawlid'?
if you did not see any proper mawlid - you issue a ruling of prohibition. anecdotal evidence is enough proof for a general ruling. sub'HanAllah.
suppose there are praiseworthy actions such as:
will celebrating mawlid be praiseworthy in such a case?
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abu Hasan
Administrator
none of the salaf translated books in foreign languages. qur'an and hadith was taught in arabic.
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but as islam spread among non-arabs it became necessary to translate the qur'an and hadith in ajami languages.
similarly, the early generation was drowned in the love of the Prophet ﷺ and they strived to learn about and live according to the sunnah. when this enthusiasm for sunnah and to learn about the life of the Prophet ﷺ became less among common people, later ulama came up with way to keep that remembrance alive. especially when rotten maulvis began to preach that the noble Prophet ﷺ was no more than a man like us, it has become all the more necessary to remind people that he ﷺ was not an ordinary man - every aspect of his worldly life is extraordinary.
his ﷺ birth was not an ordinary event. his blessed birth was the final brick in the magnificent palace of Prophets. sahih hadith tell us about the miraculous events of that night - only a dead heart will not be moved at this remembrance (dhikra).
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but as islam spread among non-arabs it became necessary to translate the qur'an and hadith in ajami languages.
similarly, the early generation was drowned in the love of the Prophet ﷺ and they strived to learn about and live according to the sunnah. when this enthusiasm for sunnah and to learn about the life of the Prophet ﷺ became less among common people, later ulama came up with way to keep that remembrance alive. especially when rotten maulvis began to preach that the noble Prophet ﷺ was no more than a man like us, it has become all the more necessary to remind people that he ﷺ was not an ordinary man - every aspect of his worldly life is extraordinary.
his ﷺ birth was not an ordinary event. his blessed birth was the final brick in the magnificent palace of Prophets. sahih hadith tell us about the miraculous events of that night - only a dead heart will not be moved at this remembrance (dhikra).
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https://barelwism.wordpress.com/2023/09/20/gathering-for-dua-outside-arafah-vs-mawlid/
zaleel chimes in... his two faced conclusion is hilarious... if he has courage, let him write/translate the same piece in Arabic and Turkish and pass it on to the non-desi Sunni Ashari/Maturidi Sufis that devbandis so shamelessly do chaplusi to - and keep a straight face and join their "permissible, non-problematic" Mawlids done randomly during rest of the year! (zaleel contends that randomly, unorganizedly, sporadically gathering to praise the Prophet 3alaihis salam is fine, whereas organizing in Rabi3 ul Awwal is bid3ah)
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organizing and planning to go overseas with TB jamat is not bid3ah apparently.
zaleel chimes in... his two faced conclusion is hilarious... if he has courage, let him write/translate the same piece in Arabic and Turkish and pass it on to the non-desi Sunni Ashari/Maturidi Sufis that devbandis so shamelessly do chaplusi to - and keep a straight face and join their "permissible, non-problematic" Mawlids done randomly during rest of the year! (zaleel contends that randomly, unorganizedly, sporadically gathering to praise the Prophet 3alaihis salam is fine, whereas organizing in Rabi3 ul Awwal is bid3ah)
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organizing and planning to go overseas with TB jamat is not bid3ah apparently.
i thot i'd take a screenshot before zaleel deleted his comment
and to my misfortune chanced upon the other article the zaleel linked below it, effectively lying upon Qadi Iyad too. just reading these two pieces by zaleel will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that devbandis are indeed wahabis, don't know why they like to stay in the closet and can't openly profess wahabism!
and to my misfortune chanced upon the other article the zaleel linked below it, effectively lying upon Qadi Iyad too. just reading these two pieces by zaleel will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that devbandis are indeed wahabis, don't know why they like to stay in the closet and can't openly profess wahabism!
abu Hasan
Administrator
perhaps devbandis have proof from the salaf that organising it in rabiyu'n noor is bid'ah.
this is like the arabs in jahiliyyah - who considered safar inauspicious. the pagans of our time keep away from celebrations in rabiyu'l awwal.
as a pakistani friend of mine said, rafziyon ka matam khatam hua, wahabiyon ka shuru hua
Thank you for your detailed responses.
You mentioned that,
'their days were spent remembering the Prophet ﷺ at all times. so there was no need to highlight the month of his birth and the day of his birth - to remind muslims on their obligation of loving and obeying him.'
referring to the salaf.
Were there Muslims amongst the salaf who did not spend all their time doing this? Was it upon them to also spend their days doing so like the most righteous or did they also specify a day or hold some specific gathering for such purposes. If teaching or learning the sira is regarded as celebration then I cannot see that any muslim who objects to mawlid hasn't already done this.
Are there degrees or levels of celebrating the mawlid on the one end, the salaf remembering all the time and on the other hand a few mins reading from sira or watching a short clip about birth of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم? Is the whole scale of activity celebrating mawlid or are certain things required to fit the definition. You may or may not be surprised to learn that the average muslim who objects to celebrating mawlid is not even on the starting block to following the efforts of the salaf. Many are simply happy if they fulfill their basic obligations and anything else is a 'bonus'. That approach seems unwise but nevertheless appears common.
I would imagine the root of the objection is more to do with form and content and then a hefty amount of propaganda against mawlid. I remember Shaykh Asrar giving advice to Salafi types to celebrate mawlid in a way with a form and contents that even they would not object to such as a time convenient gathering to recite poetry in praise of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم.
Can you recommend some books on the matter from simple works to perhaps more complex treatises?
You mentioned that,
'their days were spent remembering the Prophet ﷺ at all times. so there was no need to highlight the month of his birth and the day of his birth - to remind muslims on their obligation of loving and obeying him.'
referring to the salaf.
Were there Muslims amongst the salaf who did not spend all their time doing this? Was it upon them to also spend their days doing so like the most righteous or did they also specify a day or hold some specific gathering for such purposes. If teaching or learning the sira is regarded as celebration then I cannot see that any muslim who objects to mawlid hasn't already done this.
Are there degrees or levels of celebrating the mawlid on the one end, the salaf remembering all the time and on the other hand a few mins reading from sira or watching a short clip about birth of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم? Is the whole scale of activity celebrating mawlid or are certain things required to fit the definition. You may or may not be surprised to learn that the average muslim who objects to celebrating mawlid is not even on the starting block to following the efforts of the salaf. Many are simply happy if they fulfill their basic obligations and anything else is a 'bonus'. That approach seems unwise but nevertheless appears common.
I would imagine the root of the objection is more to do with form and content and then a hefty amount of propaganda against mawlid. I remember Shaykh Asrar giving advice to Salafi types to celebrate mawlid in a way with a form and contents that even they would not object to such as a time convenient gathering to recite poetry in praise of our prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم.
Can you recommend some books on the matter from simple works to perhaps more complex treatises?
I fear that the zaleel's article on abu lahab is plagiarized from this 2010 article of the habashis
Essentially the habashis say that Mawlid is great and a means of barakah but please dont use the hadith of abu lahab's torture reduction as one of the proofs because of the problems associated with it aqidah wise and hadith science wise (in their perspective)
https://www.darulfatwa.org.au/en/abu-lahabs-torture/
Aside- also note that the habashis, UNLIKE our desi tafdilis and closet shias, DON'T subscribe to the iman of Abu Talib
Now read zaleel's 2020 article here:
https://barelwism.wordpress.com/2020/11/01/is-it-true-that-abu-lahabs-punishment-is-lightened-on-account-of-having-expressed-happiness-at-the-birth-of-the-prophet-ﷺ/ (take screenshots if you can)
Essentially the habashis say that Mawlid is great and a means of barakah but please dont use the hadith of abu lahab's torture reduction as one of the proofs because of the problems associated with it aqidah wise and hadith science wise (in their perspective)
https://www.darulfatwa.org.au/en/abu-lahabs-torture/
Aside- also note that the habashis, UNLIKE our desi tafdilis and closet shias, DON'T subscribe to the iman of Abu Talib
Now read zaleel's 2020 article here:
https://barelwism.wordpress.com/2020/11/01/is-it-true-that-abu-lahabs-punishment-is-lightened-on-account-of-having-expressed-happiness-at-the-birth-of-the-prophet-ﷺ/ (take screenshots if you can)
abu Hasan
Administrator
were there muslims amongst salaf who said do not do this?
you sound like zameel in proxy - the excessive verbosity is reminiscent of that low-life and other devbandis.
which fiqhi principle says that it is not permissible to specify a day or hold some specific gathering for a purpose?
certainly.
how old are you? how many muslims did you interview and what is your sampling size? did they tell you that they are simply happy if they fulfill their basic obligations and anything else is a 'bonus'.
use the search function.
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/troll alert.
now i'm not saying anything directly, just playing media... @Aurangzeb can clarify himself
https://barelwism.wordpress.com/202...resent-at-multiple-places-with-their-essence/
