Shahid Ali accepts debate challenge

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Ibrahim

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Imam Shahid has accepted Shaykh Asrar's challenge to a debate

Topic

1) If reading namaz behind deobandis or badaqeedah is allowed for person who doesn't have knowledge

2) Whether drinking poison is allowed

3) Whether MMA and boxing is allowed

Conditions

1) Must be in urdu so the elder alims can understand the mawzu

2) 5 people on each party but Shaykh Asrar cannot bring anyone who is deemed aggressive or disrespectful

3) Debate in Bradford
 


Caption: “Instead of answering questions on his open violations against the Sunni Maslak and Shari'ah, Asrar Rashid has resorted to insults, slander and avoidance. Finally he has come out and asked for a debate. His challenge is accepted!”

  • “Fakeer banda e nacheez” (as he refers to himself in the video—wah! What a true embodiment of asceticism and piety!), says that Shaykh Asrar has not answered his questions and has been two months. Is this guy joking? Or is he just the blithering idiot everyone already thinks he is?
  • He also said that Shaykh Asrar’s people swore at him—but he went to have a burger with them after the meeting which was published on social media?
  • Why does Shahid Ali get to choose the terms of this debate?
    I don’t think the debate should be in Urdu, this is a UK issue and lots of people won’t understand a thing. Can’t he speak in plain simple English?
  • Instead of focusing on Shaykh Asrar, why doesn’t Shahid Ali take a good look at himself and answer about his silence about Zayn ul Aktab and JTI: Zayn holds aqidah of kufr and JTI and Pir Maroof support Irfan Shah Mashadi.
  • Shahid Ali claims that he is on “Haq”… can he prove that? What is “Haq”? a layperson like me would like to know since I’d also like to be on Haq.
  • Since he is so confident about him being on Haq, why can’t he do the debate alone? Why run for help and support from others and pull them into a drama he has created? Is he scared that Shaykh Asrar will wipe the floor with him on 1:1?
 
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Surati said:
Shahid should answer about his silent about Zayn ul Aktab and JTI, since they support Pir maroof.
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In his original video he also stated that Shaykh Asrar didnt refute the person who praised PAQ in his presence at Lea Bridge Road mosque in Walthamstow. Now that his own ustad, mufti Aslam, has done something even worse where he can be seen recently in a mehfil hosting PAQ he ought to be fair and refute his teacher as well. Perhaps Shahid Sahib should first organise a debate within his own home with his ustad and resolve that matter first, after all this one is much more important than the issue of drinking poison or that of mma and boxing. After all it is necessary first to fix the issues within one's own circles prior to looking elsewhere!
 
My thoughts:

1. This debate is a joke- they may as well be debating whether it's halal to eat mermaids or not. There are people out there doubting the existence of God and we've got a debate about whether MMA is halal instead. Good use of your time everyone.

2. Did Shaykh Asrar already agree to these conditions or is this just coming from Imam Shahid's head?

3. Shaykh Asrar later clarified that boxing etc is haram- so how can they debate a point which they both agree on? Doesn't make sense

4. These three topics of debate are insufficient- the topic of Imam Shahid and his connections to the sulh kulli organisation of JTI should be a topic of debate too. Since we're having a petty debate, why not make it more petty, eh?
 
Ibrahim said:
1) Must be in urdu so the elder alims can understand the mawzu
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No.

English for the UK youf.

Or Arabic so that all alims globally can understand the mawzu.

Ibrahim said:
2) 5 people on each party but Shaykh Asrar cannot bring anyone who is deemed aggressive or disrespectful
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No.

1 on 1 - with a bench of three neutral judges; or one judge selected by Asrar, one by Shahid, and one truly neutral who is respected by both. This must be confirmed in written statement by both brothers prior to starting.

Aside - who does the deeming as to who is aggressive or disrespectful or not? What if Asrar or Shahid themselves are aggressive or disrespectful to each other?

Ibrahim said:
3) Debate in Bradford
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No.

East Midlands or Southampton. Must be neutral turf.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Shahid should write his objections/questions and Asrar can reply in writing. Whatever language Shahid wants. No need for this juvenility.

They can both stay in their homes.

---
Anyway, Asrar has answered a few things already. Shahid can now tell us if these answers are satisfactory.

Anything in speech marks are the actual words of Shaykh Asrar.

Drinking Poison

"Drinking poison is haram in all four schools.
The incident of Sayyiduna Khalid Bin Walid (radiyAllahu anhu) when challenged by the Christians of Iraq is not apocryphal. It is validated by the Muhaddith and A'llamah Shaykh Abdullah Siraj alDin. However, the incident is from the the nawadir ahkam fiqhuyya and the general ruling of hurma remains."

Praying behind deviants

"Praying behind anyone with bida'h in belief is makruh tahrimi per our Hanafi school, if the bida'h is khafifah. If the bida'h is thaqila, then the prayer is not done as thaqila entails kufr luzumi or iltizami."
 
Aqdas said:
Shahid should write his objections/questions and Asrar can reply in writing. Whatever language Shahid wants. No need for this juvenility.
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That’s not what he wants or he could have done it in this way from the very beginning. After repeated clarifications by Shaykh Asrar he still dares to claim no answer was given.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hopefully this gets dealt with soon. Shaykh Asrar has clarified any misconceptions. It is embarrassing for Shahid Ali to drag this out.
 
Aqdas said:
Shahid should write his objections/questions and Asrar can reply in writing. Whatever language Shahid wants. No need for this juvenility.

They can both stay in their homes.

---
Anyway, Asrar has answered a few things already. Shahid can now tell us if these answers are satisfactory.

Anything in speech marks are the actual words of Shaykh Asrar.

Drinking Poison

"Drinking poison is haram in all four schools.
The incident of Sayyiduna Khalid Bin Walid (radiyAllahu anhu) when challenged by the Christians of Iraq is not apocryphal. It is validated by the Muhaddith and A'llamah Shaykh Abdullah Siraj alDin. However, the incident is from the the nawadir ahkam fiqhuyya and the general ruling of hurma remains."

Praying behind deviants

"Praying behind anyone with bida'h in belief is makruh tahrimi per our Hanafi school, if the bida'h is khafifah. If the bida'h is thaqila, then the prayer is not done as thaqila entails kufr luzumi or iltizami."
Click to expand...

Even the boxing/ufc issue, In the Lozells Masjid Q&A video he said it was allowed for people like Khabib/Muhammad Ali etc as a form of Jihad, when the opponent insulted their religion. Shaykh Asrar has since clarified boxing/ufc in general is haram.
 
I request brothers to refrain from using impolite language when referring to shahid sab.

I agree that he has gone overboard and condemn his actions (though I prefer not to comment about his intentions) and yet, those of us who can neither convince one side nor the other, would do better to err on the side of caution and keep our language free of insults and personal jabs.

As sh. asrar always advises us to be academic in our speech (even when refuting utter deviants like malam or donkeyman aka dawahman (and I resolutely disagree about the latter - for he has used rude language against the Best of Creation (صلى الله عليه وسلم)) let us walk the talk and not put ourselves in the false position of using rough speech against a darsi grad (because he is that, at the very least).

Irrespective of how the other side behaves - let's not shun the moral high ground.

wa's salaam
 
Mawlana Shahid has released a new video.

He said that in the past Shaykh Asrar has made it clear that the one who being challenged has the right to decide the venue and place.

Shaykh Asrar made this clear with the deos when he chose Birmingham as a venue because he was the one being challenged. The conversation is in the video.

I think that the reason urdu is being requested is because Sh Asrar doesn't have a command over the language and seems to struggle with fluidity.
 
Can't agree city? Do it online.

This debate isn't needed anyway but if they both insist, then no need to travel.

I'm sure they can both behave online. One on one. No need for 5 on 5.

Shahid can take 10 minutes to introduce his objections.
Asrar can take 10 minutes to reply.

Then keep having 5 minutes each and round it off in 60 mins.

No interrupting each other. They can get in touch with me as I have a neutral host if they need.

Ulama will then decide if any of the parties need to do tawbah, etc.

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Molwis should study tasawwuf and keep the company of pious people.
 
Aqdas said:
Can't agree city? Do it online.

This debate isn't needed anyway but if they both insist, then no need to travel.

I'm sure they can both behave online. One on one. No need for 5 on 5.

Shahid can take 10 minutes to introduce his objections.
Asrar can take 10 minutes to reply.

Then keep having 5 minutes each and round it off in 60 mins.

No interrupting each other. They can get in touch with me as I have a neutral host if they need.

Ulama will then decide if any of the parties need to do tawbah, etc.

---
Molwis should study tasawwuf and keep the company of pious people.
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keep it in a language both are comfortable with using for it to be fair.
 
Aqdas said:
Can't agree city? Do it online.
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There are many online platforms where they can do it online and have it professionally moderated by neutrals.

If there's a fee involved, I'm sure anyone from the community can fork out some $10-20 and let these brothers get on with it. (I'm sure Shahid or Asrar too can pay up and are not cheap. The suggestion is so as to keep fully neutral)

Ibrahim said:
I think that the reason urdu is being requested is because Sh Asrar doesn't have a command over the language and seems to struggle with fluidity.
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Shahid initially started out with english videos, and now suddenly he thinks he's an expert urdu presenter. "Atwar" doesn't do him any favors either if he thinks he's an expert on Urdu a notch above ghalib.

Sorry but it's very clear Shahid thinks only he is intelligent and everyone else in the world is a fool. Only a petty person will try to go for this language "advantage" if he knows the other party's Urdu is at a slightly lower level than his. His "smartness" here is open for all to see.

As for senior ulama not being up to the mark in English, I've been saying for ages that people who dont bother with the language of a place dont deserve to be imams and khatibs in that place. Sorry for my harsh words, but a scholar who is based in the uk and can't communicate in english, in my books he's handicapped and disabled as far as his job of being imam/khatib in uk is concerned. This is a very bitter truth.

About time we stopped people from running shop in the name of deen. You want to preach in an english speaking land, learn the language.
 
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