Shahid Ali accepts debate challenge

[Khanah]

I knew Imam Shahid would not agree to travel to Birmingham to arrange debate conditions. He has used the excuse of thugs etc as expected.

I would be surprised if this gets arranged in the end- too many things they'll disagree on and then complain it's all the fault of the other, etc and the opponent is hiding.

I'm assuming Imam Shahid wants the debate in urdu so he can receive the help of his teacher?

 

[Khanah]

Shaykh Asrar posted the following (I believe prior to Imam Shahid's recent video) on his facebook:

We will be going LIVE on all platforms at exactly 7.30pm onwards waiting for our guest. Everything will be live streamed and recorded as there is nothing to hide. Sbc is a masjid where muslims offer their prayers and students study Quran and Hadith. There are no thugs here this is the house of Allah. So do not hide behind thuggery and use this as a scapegoat, this propaganda must stop, it will not hold up as a valid reason if you are a no show. Do not let the tea go cold, be there or be square.

 

[AbdalQadir]

I'm assuming Imam Shahid wants the debate in urdu so he can receive the help of his teacher?

I forgot to write that. That's my hunch too.

As i mentioned, keep it in English, or if they all wanna sound like expert ulama, then Arabic.

Arabic is the language of Islam. Urdu is only the language of one group of Muslims. Despite the wealth of books and knowledge in our language, it is NOT the language of Islam any more than chinese or german.

The only language that can override the local language (english) is Arabic.

Let them keep it in Arabic if they cant agree on urdu or english.

Personal opinion: Asrar should tell this baby, 'you win' and let him cry and stomp his feet not getting the attention he wants.

 

[Ibrahim]

There seems to be a bias against Imam Shahid. How can anyone justify these likes, comments by Sh Asrar drivers or heavy supporters.

Calling Mufti Aslam as Bawa Aslam or bringing up the drug dealer issue once again.

Sh Asrar circle is really weird. For someone who talks about academia those around him are anything but. People like Allah Ditta Chakswari AKA Ahmad Chakswari were supporting Shahid until he started bringing up issues about Sh Asrar. Now Allah Ditta is putting up photos saying Sh Asrar sat with Shaykh Ahmad Habbal and look at the past of Shahid. Very cult like behaviour

 

[Ibrahim]

 

[Khanah]

Are these people actually connected to Shaykh Asrar? Not sure he can be held to account for random follows on social media. If, however, they are his students etc- then there is a major issue which he clearly needs to fix.

 

[Surati]

There seems to be a bias against Imam Shahid. How can anyone justify these likes, comments by Sh Asrar drivers or heavy supporters.

1. Please define bias.

2. The same criticism can be levelled against Shahid supporters online. He is not deemed responsible for those so why should Shaykh Asrar be deemed responsible for people’s comments online?

Sh Asrar circle is really weird. For someone who talks about academia those around him are anything but. People like Allah Ditta Chakswari AKA Ahmad Chakswari were supporting Shahid until he started bringing up issues about Sh Asrar. Now Allah Ditta is putting up photos saying Sh Asrar sat with Shaykh Ahmad Habbal and look at the past of Shahid.

3. As for Ditta leaving Shahid, well that is his prerogative and decision. He is an adult who can choose who he wants to support or not judging on who he thinks is right or wrong. Can you explain what is Shaykh Asrar’s involvement in this instead of making foolish emotional appeals?

 

[Ibrahim]

Are these people actually connected to Shaykh Asrar? Not sure he can be held to account for random follows on social media. If, however, they are his students etc- then there is a major issue which he clearly needs to fix.

Tayab Hasnain is Sh Asrar driver. Umar Tariq is Sh Asrar Driver.

Allah Ditta and Tayab Hasnain were present in the meeting in Bradford.

Not sure how Sh Asrar can shrug off responsibility with Tayyab.

 

[Surati]

"Atwar" doesn't do him any favors either if he thinks he's an expert on Urdu a notch above ghalib.

@AbdalQadir you won’t understand his level of verse crafting. Maulana fakeer banda e nacheez is a very humble man.

Na sataish ki tamanna na sile ki parvaah
Gar nahin hain mere ash’aar mein maani na sahi - Ghalib

I crave no praise, nor my work for reward I submit
If my verses are seen to lack meaning, so be it

 

[Khanah]

Tayab Hasnain is Sh Asrar driver. Umar Tariq is Sh Asrar Driver.

Allah Ditta and Tayab Hasnain were present in the meeting in Bradford.

Not sure how Sh Asrar can shrug off responsibility with Tayyab.

Then Shaykh Asrar needs to act sternly with them- students of knowledge shouldn't have social media anyway. It will only limit their barakah. The comment by Ahmad Chakswari in particular was disgraceful, illogical, poorly thought out and slanderous.

 

[Khanah]

I forgot to write that. That's my hunch too.

As i mentioned, keep it in English, or if they all wanna sound like expert ulama, then Arabic.

Arabic is the language of Islam. Urdu is only the language of one group of Muslims. Despite the wealth of books and knowledge in our language, it is NOT the language of Islam any more than chinese or german.

The only language that can override the local language (english) is Arabic.

Let them keep it in Arabic if they cant agree on urdu or english.

Personal opinion: Asrar should tell this baby, 'you win' and let him cry and stomp his feet not getting the attention he wants.

Not only that but why does the debate need to be done in urdu in order to let urdu speaking ulema know the truth of the matter? Are there not enough English speaking ulema who can judge between them? If so, what have our madrasah's been doing for the past several decades?

Or do we need to keep running back to urdu speaking ulema as if they are automatically more qualified in some way? Why did Imam Shahid get responses from urdu speaking scholars instead of English speaking mufti's, for example?

If it's a matter of revealing the truth to urdu speaking scholars, why not have the debate in arabic and let the truth be known amongst the arab scholars that Sh. Asrar is always hanging around? Naturally, this will be because Imam Shahid probably can't speak arabic (which is normal when you don't have speaking and listening practice so I don't blame him).

As a side note- when will Imam Shahid get around to answering questions that have been raised against him and his teacher? He has enough time to release daily videos in urdu, surely he has time to answer allegations of sulh kulliyat against himself. At least sh. Asrar responded in person as well as here online.

 

[nahim]

Brother Shahid is similiar to when Imam Asim came on the scene. Studying a few courses does not take you to the next level or make one righteous. His really trying hard to get a following but this is not the way. Sheikh Asrar is not perfect but he has earned his reputation over many years of hard work. The topics selected for debate are very week considering there is no right or wrong answer, depending on which books or scholars you have read. It will just make the average person even more confused.

 

[Qadiri Faqir]

Just appalling to read those screenshots. This is what you define as cult behavior. Shaykh Asrar should add Adab to his syllabus.

If anything, this only proves Mawlana Shahid’s point even more about these individuals.

 

[Surati]

Just appalling to read those screenshots. This is what you define as cult behavior. Shaykh Asrar should add Adab to his syllabus.

If anything, this only proves Mawlana Shahid’s point even more about these individuals.

Are these his students?

 

[Shadman]

Just appalling to read those screenshots. This is what you define as cult behavior. Shaykh Asrar should add Adab to his syllabus.

If anything, this only proves Mawlana Shahid’s point even more about these individuals.

Selective bias... You can look at the social post of any of the two and find similar comments.

 

[Ibrahim]

Sh Asrar has now said that he will not debate Mawlana Shahid after initially challenged him.

 

[Qadiri Faqir]

Selective bias... You can look at the social post of any of the two and find similar comments.

Do you mind sharing Mawlana Shahid’s driver/students/close contact who is behaving in similar manner? I concur with you brother, Mawlana Shahid’s close contacts and students behavior should also be called if they are behaving similarly.

@Surati I was told Tayyab is a student from a source. Please correct me if that’s wrong. Also seen in the pic below (the one on the phone in camel jacket).

 

[Khanah]

Statement (I don't know how to link to a facebook post so just copying and pasting):

Shaykh Asrar: “After consulting senior Ulama we have concluded that ‘Faqir Banda e Nacheez’ has proven to be an inadequate opponent to debate, and additionally has already in fact been debated and refuted on these very same points that he keeps reiterating over the past few months. The subjects he has chosen for the debate have no substance because these points have already been clarified in public and private by myself. Anyone who is still unhappy is welcome to visit me any time at SBC Masjid, just as Mufti Zia Qasim did, and very much so decently. Hence, instead of wasting time with weekly propaganda Youtube videos against me ’Faqir Banda e Nacheez’ can visit me anytime for clarification just as Mufti Qasim did. And stop soiling the name of Ahlus Sunnah and The Maslak. The witnesses to the impromptu debate and refutation of ‘Faqir Banda e Nacheez’ which took place in mid November were the following Ullama:
Mufti Aslam Bandyalvi,
Maulana Naveed Jamil,
Maulana Bilal (Halifax)
Maulana Rashid (Keighley),
Maulana Danyaal (B’ham),
Imam Sudagar.
It was agreed upon in front of these witnesses that no more videos would be made, and private contact would be made if there were any points to discuss or retract. However this condition was broken by ’Faqir Banda e Nacheez’’ even though the clarification, refutation and apology video was made in-front of and at the behest of Mufti Aslam his own teacher and Maulana Naveed Jamil, as were the conditions he has broke. This issue will no longer be entertained. YOU’RE DISMISSED!”
Note:- Listen clearly to the video attached dating back to November. A clear apology, clarification, retraction and promise for future consul by ‘Faqir Banda e Nacheez’. Conditions broken thereafter.

 

[AbdalQadir]

Shaykh Asrar: “After consulting senior Ulama we have concluded

Awesome. Hopefully this response settles in and Asrar Rashid no longer entertains Shahid's tantrums should he still continue with them.

Some people are only a drain on others energies and time.

 

[Shadman]

I am genuinely confused. The person who challenges usually decides the topic, no? However, the topic of debate in this exchange was brought forward(when he accepted the challenge) by the one who was challenged.