Qadr: Qadarīyyah beliefs among the masses

Ahlesaabiqoon

sunniport user
Qadr is not something that people should dwelve into. However, only because of deviance, the 'ulamā needed to teach Qadr more in depth so that people would have a correct understanding of it. Unfortunately, the teachings of many 'ulamā on this matter are not great.

Ibn Rajab al-Hanbalī (رَحِمَهُ ٱللَّٰهُ) has commented on the hadīth of jibrīl (alayhis salām) and talked about the two degrees of affirming Qadr.

The first, which is agreed upon by every Muslim, including some of the Qadarīyyah, is that Allāh always had pre-eternal knowledge of everything, and in this sense, He decreed and 'wrote' what He always knew was going to happen. Only the extreme Qadarīyyah, who are kuffār, rejected Allāh's knowledge and decree (first degree of Qadr).

The second is that Allāh has not only known what would happen but also creates people's actions and willed/decided their actions for them. This is affirmed by Ahlus Sunnah but rejected by Qadarīyyah and even by many Muslims today. They think affirming this degree is jabr (belief that we are compelled to do actions).

You see, many Muslims hear scholars saying that just because Allāh knows what we will do does not mean He is forcing us to do what we do. However, when a Muslim hears this, he thinks this means that Allāh knows what we will do but does not *create * or *decide * what we will do.

--So if Zayd was going to sin tomorrow, Ahlus Sunnah says not only did Allāh know that, He also *decided * that Zayd would sin tomorrow and creates his action of sinning.
--Qadarīyyah and many Muslims today think Allāh only knows what Zayd will do tomorrow but does not create his action and did not decide he would sin, rather, Allāh only wrote down what He knew what would happen and the common people think the decree is just Allāh allowing zayd to sin, not deciding or creating his action.

If they reply to us that Allāh deciding what we do is jabr, we reply Allāh decides what we do, but He also decided that we would commit these actions with our own will (which is what we feel with intention). Jabr is Allāh deciding what we do without our own will (involuntary action). The jabrīyyah say all actions we commit are involuntary. Ahlus sunnah say there is a distinction between voluntary and involuntary actions, and we are responsible only for the former, but Allāh creates both types for us. This is too difficult for many Muslims to comprehend.
 
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If I'm not mistaken you have learnt your aqidah from an ashari. This matter has been discussed before on this forum, and I finally came to the conclusion that the asharis and maturidis have ikhtilaf on this matter. I personally lean toward the ashari view on this.
 
The second is that Allāh has not only known what would happen but also creates people's actions and willed/decided their actions for them.
Deja ve, someone came back with a new ID?

Ahlus Sunnah says not only did Allāh know that, He also *decided * that Zayd would sin tomorrow and creates his action of sinning.
the same jabari troll is back?

This is too difficult for many Muslims to comprehend.
it is you who was unable to understand it previously as well, and you haven't improved your understanding any further, because you believe in jabr.

your writing style and reasoning have not changed/improved.

would you mind correcting and rewriting BeS statement that you objected to? if you don't do that and keep uttering the same nonsense, we will kick you out.
 
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If people played video games or understood world building in such games should be able to understand many kalam points.

Brother when you hit 'x' on the controller, that was your intention. You chose to press x . All the visual/animated effects that occur due to pressing 'x' is the game mechanic. I hope you know where I am going with this.
 
Deja ve, someone came back with a new ID?


the same jabari troll is back?


it is you who was unable to understand it previously as well, and you haven't improved your understanding any further, because you believe in jabr.

your writing style and reasoning have not changed/improved.

would you mind correcting and rewriting BeS statement that you objected to? if you don't do that and keep uttering the same nonsense, we will kick you out.

I swear by Allāh Azzawajal I have never posted anything before, rather, I recently became a member. Do you have any adab that you accuse a Muslim brother.

Also, do you reject that Allāh decided what people will do pre-eternally and that He creates our actions, falling into the same beliefs as the qadarīyyah?

By the way, https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/...e-are-many-verses-and-hadiths-to-that-effect/
 
If people played video games or understood world building in such games should be able to understand many kalam points.

Brother when you hit 'x' on the controller, that was your intention. You chose to press x . All the visual/animated effects that occur due to pressing 'x' is the game mechanic. I hope you know where I am going with this.

Yes, if someone presses x on a controller, this is free-will. No doubt. But one must understand before one was created, Allāh not only knew that a person would press x on a controller at a certain time, but Allāh also decided/willed this person would press x at a certain time with his own free-will. Notice how Allāh is willing this person would do something (pressing x) with his own will (intention). So we have free-will, however, this falls under the decision/will of Allāh. If a person rejects that Allāh wills/decides/create what we do, this is falling into the same camp of qadarīyyah beliefs/mu'tazilah, etc...
 
Please do explain this hadith for me:

On the authority of Ibn Abbas (RadhiyAllahu ‘anhuma), from the Messenger of Allah (SallaAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam), from what he has related from his Lord is:

“Verily Allah has written down the good deeds and the evil deeds”, and then explained it [by saying]: “Whosoever intended to perform a good deed, but did not do it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as a complete good deed. And if he intended to perform it and did perform it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds up to seven hundred fold, up to many times multiplied. And if he intended to perform an evil deed, but did not do it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as a complete good deed. And if he intended it [i.e., the evil deed] and then performed it, then Allah writes it down as one evil deed.”

[Reported by Bukhari & Muslim]
 
I'm sorry, but this is contradictory. This would also mean that Allah's will in contingent on our free will.

I'm sorry, but your claim of contradiction is false. Allāh's will has always existed pre-eternally, hence it is not contingent on anything. However, Allāh has willed that we would do something with our own will. Our will depends on him, not the other way around, hence our will is contingent, not His.
 
Please do explain this hadith for me:

On the authority of Ibn Abbas (RadhiyAllahu ‘anhuma), from the Messenger of Allah (SallaAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam), from what he has related from his Lord is:

“Verily Allah has written down the good deeds and the evil deeds”, and then explained it [by saying]: “Whosoever intended to perform a good deed, but did not do it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as a complete good deed. And if he intended to perform it and did perform it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds up to seven hundred fold, up to many times multiplied. And if he intended to perform an evil deed, but did not do it, then Allah writes it down with Himself as a complete good deed. And if he intended it [i.e., the evil deed] and then performed it, then Allah writes it down as one evil deed.”

[Reported by Bukhari & Muslim]

This hadīth is haqq. Allāh wrote everything that would occur. Intending to perform a good deed without physically acting on it is itself a good deed. If he intends and performs it, its multiplied. If he intended to do evil but did not do it, this is a good deed. If intended and performed, its only one evil deed.
 
What do you think of the following hadīth:


Narrated `Abdullāh bin Mas'ūd:

Allāh's Messenger (ﷺ), the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes an 'alaqah (congealed clinging substance) for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allāh sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." Sahīh al-Bukhārī 3208.

فَإِنَّ الرَّجُلَ مِنْكُمْ لَيَعْمَلُ حَتَّى مَا يَكُونُ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ الْجَنَّةِ إِلاَّ ذِرَاعٌ، فَيَسْبِقُ عَلَيْهِ كِتَابُهُ، فَيَعْمَلُ بِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ النَّارِ، وَيَعْمَلُ حَتَّى مَا يَكُونُ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ النَّارِ إِلاَّ ذِرَاعٌ، فَيَسْبِقُ عَلَيْهِ الْكِتَابُ، فَيَعْمَلُ بِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ
 
But I do not say, like the jabrīyyah say, that Allāh just decides we will do things like robots without any free-will on our part. He decided what we will do, but also decided we would do things with our own will. hence, we cannot say we are being forced/compelled because to be forced to do something is to be forced to do something against our will.
 
Allāh has willed that we would do something with our own will.
Allah Ta'ala created our will, He created good and evil for us to choose from, but He Subhanu wa Ta'ala did not decide what we would do. Since He Subhanu was Ta'ala is all-knowing, He Subhanu wa Ta'ala knew what we would choose to do; therefore, He Subhanu was Ta'ala had it written down, and this is the meaning of the hadith of Abdullah bin Masud raDiyAllahu a'nh you quoted.
 
Allah Ta'ala created our will, He created good and evil for us to choose from, but He Subhanu wa Ta'ala did not decide what we would do. Since He Subhanu was Ta'ala is all-knowing, He Subhanu wa Ta'ala knew what we would choose to do; therefore, He Subhanu was Ta'ala had it written down, and this is the meaning of the hadith of Abdullah bin Masud raDiyAllahu a'nh you quoted.

This is what I used to believe before becoming more practicing. That Allāh created us, created within us our will. Then, with this created will, we choose between different options, but this choosing of ours is not created by Allāh but only known by Allāh. but the hadīth is clear; his actions have already been decided by Allāh and not merely written.

If you agree that Allāh creates everything, including our actions,
1) Allāh creates our actions
2) To choose is an action
3) Allāh creates our act of choosing

So before we choose a instead of b, Allāh creates our act of us choosing a instead of b. It is impossible for us to perform an act without it being created by Allāh. So if Allāh is creating our act of choosing a instead of b, it cannot be said that Allāh just knew we would choose a; He decided we would choose a, He was the very creator of that event.

Think of 1) I know what a person is going to do,
and
2) I am going to create/decide what a person will do and also know what a person will do.
 
So before we choose a instead of b, Allāh creates our act of us choosing a instead of b. It is impossible for us to perform an act without it being created by Allāh. So if Allāh is creating our act of choosing a instead of b, it cannot be said that Allāh just knew we would choose a; He decided we would choose a, He was the very creator of that event.

Think of 1) I know what a person is going to do,
and
2) I am going to create/decide what a person will do and also know what a person will do.
explain what is jabr then? how is it any different from a jabri aqidah?
 
unfortunately, you have misunderstood shaykh abu adam's reply, he clearly states that;

I am not denying we choose things. we have the ability to commit the act of choosing. We perform acts. but Allāh creates them. also you said i misunderstood the shaykh. Yet look at what you highlighted from what the shaykh said:

"This presumed ability however is created by Allah and according to His Will, just as the actual choice made in the end.
 
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