Zameel defends Nanotvi against Shaykh Asrar
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abu Hasan
Administrator
yeah. according to zameel everyone is an idiot and only devbandis are right.
shaykh abdur rahman siraj, the chief mufti of makkah made takfir of nanotvi long before alahazrat reiterated it. zameel mentions shaykh rahmatullah kiranwi and we can see what he thought of him.
interested?
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when you look up dream interpretations such as that of nablusi, or ibn shahin etc. (this is something that amused me decades ago but since it is a dream i didn't cite it as a proof - though it is an accurate description of nanotwi).
whoever sees himself (or praying) on the terrace of the ka'abah, it is as if he has left the religion or discarded the religion of islam.
see nablusi's ta'atir al-anam: (and also has ta'abeer attributed to ibn sirin and ibn shahin)
nablusi: p292
ibn sirin: p452
ibn shahin: p635
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shaykh abdur rahman siraj, the chief mufti of makkah made takfir of nanotvi long before alahazrat reiterated it. zameel mentions shaykh rahmatullah kiranwi and we can see what he thought of him.
interested?
---
when you look up dream interpretations such as that of nablusi, or ibn shahin etc. (this is something that amused me decades ago but since it is a dream i didn't cite it as a proof - though it is an accurate description of nanotwi).
whoever sees himself (or praying) on the terrace of the ka'abah, it is as if he has left the religion or discarded the religion of islam.
see nablusi's ta'atir al-anam: (and also has ta'abeer attributed to ibn sirin and ibn shahin)
nablusi: p292
ibn sirin: p452
ibn shahin: p635
====
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abu Hasan
Administrator
EDITED:
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* shuhdaa= tramp, a scalawag, rascal, immoral. luccha, lafanga.
(NOTE: i had translated a portion as a summary which was anyway correct by implication, though not a verbatim translation. deobandis may object that it is misleading as the shaykh didn't explicitly say that. therefore, i have translated verbatim above.)
the entire taqriz/attestation could have been well written by a "barelwi"...
"and the second issue is this:
there may not be a single sentence in barahin e qati'ah, in response to anwar e sati'ah whose author [i.e. mawlana abdu'l samiy rampuri] is mentioned except with explicit profanities [sarahatan kalimat e fuhsh].
this reminds me of another incident: about the profligates [shuhdaa*] near the jamiy-masjid, who are known for lewdness [rindi] and uttering abuses and profanities [gali galoch].
one among such men took bay'ah [i.e. became a disciple of a sufi shaykh] and i am told that his guide advised him at the time of bay'ah: "listen ; even if you gamble or utter profanities and abuses, refrain from kaaf and laam."
i did not understand this - so i asked someone reliable among them, what this meant. he replied: kaaf means do not call someone a kaafir; and laam means doe not curse [la'anat] someone.
sub'HanAllah! the profligates outside jamiy masjid consider it abominable to call someone a kafir or damned - but the author of barahin-e-qati'ah [khalil ambhetvi] describes the author of anwar-e-sati'ah as an idolator and a disbeliever! [mushrik o kafir].
some places are famous for some things. like my native kiranah and nanotah, to which maulvi qasim and maulvi yaqub etc. belong. nanotah is famous for its inauspicousness and ill-luck [nuhusat] - the common people do not take their names in the morning.
kirana is known as the town of jujubes and nanota is known as broken town.
kursi, kandhla and ambheta are famous for stupidity [humq].
and some effects of their hometowns can be perceived in its citizens.
the effect of my hometown upon me is that i had [the ill-fortune] to see this age. may Allah protect maulvi khalil ahmad from the speciality of his hometown.
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and may Allah give hazrat maulvi ghulam dastgir a good reward for refuting them.
ameen; again, aameen.
the slave: muHammad rahmatullah ibn khalilu'r rahman may Allah [al-mannan] forgive them both.
15th dhu'l qa'adah, 1307
makkah mu'azzamah
there may not be a single sentence in barahin e qati'ah, in response to anwar e sati'ah whose author [i.e. mawlana abdu'l samiy rampuri] is mentioned except with explicit profanities [sarahatan kalimat e fuhsh].
this reminds me of another incident: about the profligates [shuhdaa*] near the jamiy-masjid, who are known for lewdness [rindi] and uttering abuses and profanities [gali galoch].
one among such men took bay'ah [i.e. became a disciple of a sufi shaykh] and i am told that his guide advised him at the time of bay'ah: "listen ; even if you gamble or utter profanities and abuses, refrain from kaaf and laam."
i did not understand this - so i asked someone reliable among them, what this meant. he replied: kaaf means do not call someone a kaafir; and laam means doe not curse [la'anat] someone.
sub'HanAllah! the profligates outside jamiy masjid consider it abominable to call someone a kafir or damned - but the author of barahin-e-qati'ah [khalil ambhetvi] describes the author of anwar-e-sati'ah as an idolator and a disbeliever! [mushrik o kafir].
some places are famous for some things. like my native kiranah and nanotah, to which maulvi qasim and maulvi yaqub etc. belong. nanotah is famous for its inauspicousness and ill-luck [nuhusat] - the common people do not take their names in the morning.
kirana is known as the town of jujubes and nanota is known as broken town.
kursi, kandhla and ambheta are famous for stupidity [humq].
and some effects of their hometowns can be perceived in its citizens.
the effect of my hometown upon me is that i had [the ill-fortune] to see this age. may Allah protect maulvi khalil ahmad from the speciality of his hometown.
--
and may Allah give hazrat maulvi ghulam dastgir a good reward for refuting them.
ameen; again, aameen.
the slave: muHammad rahmatullah ibn khalilu'r rahman may Allah [al-mannan] forgive them both.
15th dhu'l qa'adah, 1307
makkah mu'azzamah
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* shuhdaa= tramp, a scalawag, rascal, immoral. luccha, lafanga.
(NOTE: i had translated a portion as a summary which was anyway correct by implication, though not a verbatim translation. deobandis may object that it is misleading as the shaykh didn't explicitly say that. therefore, i have translated verbatim above.)
the entire taqriz/attestation could have been well written by a "barelwi"...
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man that's scary!
i found it amusing that zameel started an "academic" rebuttal by mentioning dreams!
Unfortunately for Zameel, despite all the sophistry he has utilized in trying to show that deos believe that the prophet salAllahu alaihi wa salaam is absolutely the final prophet, like any other deo, he has inadvertently blurted out his true belief.
"In Taḥdhīr al-Nās, his most detailed exploration of this issue, he argues that since the Qur’ān is a preserved book, divine wisdom dictates that no prophethood after the Prophet Muḥammad ﷺ is needed, even one that does not bring with it a new law."
The Ahl Sunnah wal Jama'ah do not hold the belief that a prophet coming after the prophet salAllahu alaihi wa sallam is merely *something which not needed*, rather that it is impossible. This statement alone should suffice a fair and honest reader to understand that their position is against Quran, Sunnah and Ijma'.
Another point to note from the article is how deos are, in their nature, disrespectful and uncouth. In showing how the word khatam can have multiple meaning he makes analogy to the word rijs. What an impure individual he is.
Uff re munkir yeh baRha josh e ta'asub aakhir
bheR mein hath se kambakht ke iman gya
"In Taḥdhīr al-Nās, his most detailed exploration of this issue, he argues that since the Qur’ān is a preserved book, divine wisdom dictates that no prophethood after the Prophet Muḥammad ﷺ is needed, even one that does not bring with it a new law."
The Ahl Sunnah wal Jama'ah do not hold the belief that a prophet coming after the prophet salAllahu alaihi wa sallam is merely *something which not needed*, rather that it is impossible. This statement alone should suffice a fair and honest reader to understand that their position is against Quran, Sunnah and Ijma'.
Another point to note from the article is how deos are, in their nature, disrespectful and uncouth. In showing how the word khatam can have multiple meaning he makes analogy to the word rijs. What an impure individual he is.
Uff re munkir yeh baRha josh e ta'asub aakhir
bheR mein hath se kambakht ke iman gya
Is this refutation accessible for reading? I read today about Shaykh ʿAbd al-Raḥman Siraj issuing takfir upon Nanotwi, and then came across this thread.
I think it would be very beneficial to make a graphic or chart documenting the takfir and refutations directed at the Deobandi idiots prior to the issuance of Alahazrat’s Ḥusam al-Ḥaramayn. From what I have read, the only individual from the five mentioned in Ḥusam who had not already received a fatwa of kufr (prior to Ḥusam) was Thanwi. Thus, Alahazrat had only regurgitated the takfir on four of the five individuals.
In truth, one of the principal reasons why Barelwis are so often maligned, and why many Sunnis hesitate to engage with us, is the perception of us as takfiris. The charge of being takfir machines or now even khawarij is levelled against us online.
A graphic listing the scholars who refuted and/or made takfir of Gangohi, Nanotwi, and Saharanpuri prior to Alahazrat, complete with the titles of their works and dates, would go a long way in addressing this misconception. This stigma must be dispelled academically.
I am willing to attempt compiling such a resource, though it will require some research. But, I’ve a feeling that Mawlana Abu Hasan could assemble this list from memory
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Mawlana Ghulam Dastagir Qasuri notes in 'Taqdis al-Wakil' how the Grand Mufti of the Hanafis in Makkah al-Mukarramah, Shaykh Abd al-Rahman Siraj had a 36 page fatwa against Tahdhir al-Nas in 1291h, published from Egypt (Alahazrat's 'Husam' was published in 1323h).
- Taqdis al-Wakil, p. 38 - 39
(https://archive.org/details/TaqdeesUlWakeelAnTauheenUrRasheedWalKhalil/page/n28/mode/1up)
In another place in 'Taqdis al-Wakil', Mawlana Ghulam Dastagir Qasuri notes that Shaykh Abd al-Rahman Siraj wrote that he could not believe that a 'Muslim' could have such beliefs.
- 'Taqdis al-Wakil', p. 138 - 140
(https://archive.org/details/TaqdeesUlWakeelAnTauheenUrRasheedWalKhalil/page/n78/mode/1up)
Mawlana Ghulam Dastagir Qasuri actually challenged Khalil Ambethwi Saharanpuri to a debate with the judges being Mawlana Rahmat-Allah Kayranawi and Haji Imdad-Allah Makki, or, instead, a Mubahalah
In Qistas, by Muhammad Faruqi Thanawi (student of Shah Ishaq and Imam Fazl-i Haqq), this istifta is sent regarding Zayd. I can't work out some words but it seems to say that Zayd bases his aqidah from the athar of Sayyiduna Abd-Allah b. Abbas. He believes in Sayyiduna RasulAllah ﷺ as the Khatam Haqiqi, but also believes in six further Khatams as Khatam Idafi, just as there are six further Adams as Adam Idafi. Zayd says he can repent from this aqidah if needs be. The questioner asks if this is Islamic creed.
Muhammad Faruqi Thanawi replies that this is NOT Islamic creed, but is rather a newly fabricated invention.
The rest of the answer talks about Sealship but there are a number of words I cannot make out so I do not want to guess them.
This fatwa is endorsed by many scholars, and perhaps even Mufti Irshad Husayn Rampuri (there is an endorsement of a Muhammad Irshad Husayn, and his endorsement is placed next to the Rampur scholars, so this may be the famous Mufti Husayn Rampuri as the timelines also match)
Muhammad Faruqi Thanawi replies that this is NOT Islamic creed, but is rather a newly fabricated invention.
The rest of the answer talks about Sealship but there are a number of words I cannot make out so I do not want to guess them.
This fatwa is endorsed by many scholars, and perhaps even Mufti Irshad Husayn Rampuri (there is an endorsement of a Muhammad Irshad Husayn, and his endorsement is placed next to the Rampur scholars, so this may be the famous Mufti Husayn Rampuri as the timelines also match)
Mufti Irshad Husayn Rampuri also signed Ibtal-i Aghlat-i Qasimiyyah against Qasim Nanotwi, so my previous guess may well be true
