JTI has suspended shahid ali

People are seeking the views of Shaykh Asrar, Shaykh Monawwar, Pir Saqib et al on Irfan Shah.

Rightly so.

But I want to know the views of organisations too.

Dawat e Islami
Suffat ul Islam
Jamia al Karam
Sultan Bahu
Nerian sharif
Mohaddis e Azam Mission

Please.
 
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Ahsan has buckled after the protest.

The Ulama met Liaqat and his cronies at Westgate in 2021 regarding Irfan. Mahroof turned up to the Mawlid a day later at Westgate and hosted Irfan as keynote speaker. Ahsan held hands with Irfan during the Julus.

Ahsan has posted the following on FB

'I wish to clarify that Jamiyat Tabligh-Ul-Islam (JTI) does not support or condone any statements or ideologies that are contrary to our constitution.

I would like to reassure the scholars and general public of the Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama’ah, that we are taking the necessary steps to ensure that all our scholars, trustees and board members adhere to our values and mission as declared within our constitution. We regret any confusion or harm that may have been caused. We remain steadfast in our commitment to promoting the creed of Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama’ah and to serving the needs of our community.

I thank you for your continued support and understanding as we work to maintain our commitment to promote the creed of the Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama’ah.

Jumuah at The Central Mosque will be led by myself for the foreseeable future.'
 
HajiNaushah said:
I would like to reassure the scholars and general public of the Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama’ah, that we are taking the necessary steps to ensure that all our scholars, trustees and board members adhere to our values and mission as declared within our constitution. We regret any confusion or harm that may have been caused. We remain steadfast in our commitment to promoting the creed of Ahl-us-Sunnah wal Jama’ah and to serving the needs of our community.
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some 20 years or so, i came across john maxwell's book on leadership. it is a well written book and a bestseller (i think). a lot of what is in there is wisdom we find in books of noble sufis, but one thing that was new and striking to me was in the background of the author. he was the 'leader' of a church and then moved to bigger churches and it was this experience of his, shared in the book.

for someone who hadn't lived in the west, the striking thing was: that churches were run like corporations and they made a whale lot of money by way of donations. it appears that mosque committees and other welfare schemes in the west also have a similar set up and are managed like a business - wAllahu a'alam.

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coming back to ahsan shah's post: what is the value of this boiler plate PR statement?

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irfan shah says the same: 'he does not support or condone any statement or ideologies that are contrary to ahlus'sunnah'.
because according to irfan shah, all that he says or does *IS* the sunni position.

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now if the ahsan shah sahib is sincere, he will not hesitate to take a clear stand on both irfan shah's statements/actions and irfan shah himself.

"i would like to reassure...we are taking necessary steps..."
what are those steps? what is the deadline?

what about shahid? why was he removed? why was he removed NOW? will he be reinstated?

what is the official statement on irfan shah and his shiah proclamations?

when is irfan shah being removed? unless of course, irfan shah repents and explicitly repudiates his shiah stands.

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after a brother alerted me (the screenshot below) these were my thoughts, and i see that AQ has a similar view.
PR statements won't work on the day of judgement.

nas'alu Allah al aafiyah.






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PS: a summary of maxwell's book.
 
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The sacking of Shahid Ali by JTI, if done due to protecting Irfan Shah, is wrong.

We can seek the views of Sh Asrar and others on Irfan Shah and his blatant disregard for the core beliefs of AhluSunnah, however, to seek support for Shahid Ali from Sh Asrar is a far fetch and would by Shahid's own standards be tantamount to diluting truth with falsehood. Does a Sunni (shahid) need the support/approval of a deviant (sh Asrar)? This does not sit well in the history of AhluSunnah if the answer is yes.

For example, once we have removed Irfan shah from Sunni platforms, should we protest the removal of sh Asrar from sunni platforms as well as he is, by Shahid's standards, a Sulh Kulli?

Shahid would, I am assuming, be in support of such a protest but let's break down the options:

1. Shahid remains silent on such a protest and gives no opinion. Then he is equal to the below mentioned people. Case closed.
2. He supports the protest to remove sh Asrar as he is a "Sulh Kulli". Shahid is not imprisoned or bed bound (in my knowledge) so he can start such a movement today. (His absence of protest or calling for a protest will lead back to point 1 and the case is closed).
3. He rejects such a protest. Is Sulh Kulli permitted deviance and therefore a Sulh Kulli may lecture from Sunni platforms? If yes, why, and if no, then why no protest (a no would lead back to point 1 and the case is closed)?

May Allah unite the AhluSunnah and remove the infiltrating shiaism and its supporters.
 
Ikhwaan said:
He supports the protest to remove sh Asrar as he is a "Sulh Kulli". Shahid is not imprisoned or bed bound (in my knowledge) so he can start such a movement today.
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Isn’t Moulana Shahid Ali already doing this behind the scenes?
 
shahnawazgm said:
And how is Shaykh Asrar a deviant? What has he explicitly done to make himself out of the folds of the Ahle Sunnat?

I too have issues with Sh Asrar in some areas, however till date I haven't seen anything that will make him a deviant!
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That is my point brother, that he (sh asrar) is not a deviant.

If sh Asrar is not a deviant then we should be correcting Shahid Ali first in this regard, because Shahid Ali has made big accusations against him that he is a Sulh Kulli. To the extent, if memory serves correct, he even got some fatwa from abroad in relation to sh Asrar being a deviant (the fatwa was never made public I think).

To better explain this matter it is similar to when Dr Jalali used the term Khata (ijtihadi) for Sayyidah fatimah (Allah is pleased with her) - a discussion can be had about how he used the term and the poor judgement in making such statements in a public forum - which resulted in Irfan shah calling Jalali a deviant. This is where this all started from. What if no one supported Jalali to correct Irfan shah that such statements do not make a person a deviant? we would have had a Shahid Ali situation with irfan shah, where he gets away with making big accusations lightly.

Make no mistake, Irfan shah is without a shadow of a doubt speaking and working against the beliefs of AhluSunnah and this is no defence of him. Rather my point is to show that if you let off people lightly when they make such accusations they end up becoming like Irfan shah.

In a nutshell what I am trying to say is, ironically, Shahid is slipping down the same slope Irfan shah already has.
 
Uthman said:
Isn’t Moulana Shahid Ali already doing this behind the scenes?
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If he is then we should be correcting him on this matter first before supporting him in other matters.

i.e. we should continue to object to Irfan Shah's blunders whilst correcting Shahid Ali on his own errors.
 
Ikhwaan said:
To the extent, if memory serves correct, he even got some fatwa from abroad in relation to sh Asrar being a deviant (the fatwa was never made public I think).
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as far as i know, from this forum - Shahid Ali got a verbal fatwa from mufti Aslam Raza saab (Dubai & Karachi based) - and then he just got busy refuting devbandis, yaqoubi (if i'm not mistaken), that shia movie crew, and now iran shah - something we all appreciated quite vocally.

i thought (wishfully?) that the fitnah of accusing Asrar Rashid of being sulh kulli had died peacefully in its sleep.

if it's still alive, no doubt that fitnah needs to be extinguished, while maintaining the support for the good stuff that Shahid Ali is doing.
 
imam Shahid's Ali suspension of JTI is unwarranted because he simply protested against an organization that he feels is not adhering to its own constitution. Irfan Shah needs to be removed from the masjid that claims that it upholds sunni creed. We await how this unfolds.

Shaykh Asrar has already spoken against Irfan Shah but does he need to speak up for Imam Shahid... I don't think so. I disagree with Imam Shahid's stance on Shaykh Asrar and found the whole episode an embarrassing sideshow. Best to leave Shaykh Asrar out of this thing.

The scholars or organizations that need to speak out are those who have influence over JTI.
 
AbdalQadir said:
i thought (wishfully?) that the fitnah of accusing Asrar Rashid of being sulh kulli had died peacefully in its sleep.

if it's still alive, no doubt that fitnah needs to be extinguished, while maintaining the support for the good stuff that .
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Unfortunately that Fitnah was never addressed. He regards sh Asrar not only a deviant but one who actively misguides others.

It becomes difficult to support the good efforts of such a person because laity rely on the carefully derived rulings of scholars. For example.

1. Shahid Ali charges sh Asrar with being a deviant and out of the fold of AhluSunnah.

2. then he charges Irfan Shah with being a deviant and out of the fold of AhluSunnah.

3. after some time (and with no change in the material facts of the case), Shahid Ali’s conjured up charge against sh Asrar is found to be nothing more than jealousy or a baseless accusation.

4. Once item 3 is activated it will cause item 2 to fall into disrepute. And if item 3 is never activated Shahid should call for a protest against sh Asrar.

ignoring such questions can only allow you to keep Pandora’s box shut for so long.
 
Ikhwaan said:
correcting him on this matter first before supporting him in other matters.
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there is no linear approach in the matter. "first correct shahid, then we will talk of irfan" is not the right approach. two different issues and irfan shah's matter is a serious one.

Waqar786 said:
Shaykh Asrar has already spoken against Irfan Shah but
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when and where did we miss this? has shaykh asrar spoken on irfan shah's antics post his coming out of the closet? please link if there are relevant critiques.

Ikhwaan said:
It becomes difficult to support the good efforts of such a person
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shaykh asrar does not have to stand behind shahid. he can independently provide guidance to the common public on the irfan shah issue. it would be good if he would also support shahid (regarding his expulsion) but if he doesn't want to, it is ok.
 
abu Hasan said:
there is no linear approach in the matter. "first correct shahid, then we will talk of irfan" is not the right approach. two different issues and irfan shah's matter is a serious one.
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shaykh, that is my point. “Support shahid in order to count as being a against irfan shah” is not the correct way forward. You can correct Irfan Shah whilst considering it to be good that someone who has caused much fitnah in the Muslim community, namely shahid, is removed from a large Sunni platform.
 
Ikhwaan said:
shaykh, that is my point. “Support shahid in order to count as being a against irfan shah” is not the correct way forward. You can correct Irfan Shah whilst considering it to be good that someone who has caused much fitnah in the Muslim community, namely shahid, is removed from a large Sunni platform.
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Let's put things in a different perspective. The Shahid Ali/Shaykh Asrar issue is insignificant compared to the Irfan Shah issue. When Shahid Ali named Shaykh Asrar then Shaykh Asrar found the time on his hands to immediately respond, travel up to Shahid's Town for a confrontation, and furthermore the toing and froing between the two continued for such a long time.

Now when Iran Shah has been attacking the Sahaba, attacking Islam, the sunni creed, Shaykh Asrar doesn't find the need to speak out explicitly on this matter? Is defending a personal attack on himself more important than defending the attacks made by Iran Shah? Compare this with Ala Hazrat when the deobandis used to slander him where he stated that it was much more preferable to him that they slander him rather than the Messenger of Allah!

Every sunni scholar and organisation should openly make their stance clear on Iran Shah, even more so when they have a considerable following.
 
With all due respect, those who are students or admirers of Shaykh Asrar either won't support Irfan Shah or deem him relevant. He is yesterday's news.
 
Waqar786 said:
those who are students or admirers of Shaykh Asrar either won't support Irfan Shah or deem him relevant. He is yesterday's news.
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hmmm. interesting thought. not being sarcastic. good discussion point in a maslaha-mafsada debate

is it more maslaha to say "he who spake against the sahaba is a reject from the Ahlus Sunnah" vs "irfan shah shia ho chuka hai"

"the person who spoke against sahaba in recent public discourses is so irrelevant, so insignificant, and so yesterday's news; not worth our precious time" vs "we protest and demand you sack iran shah from JTI today and cleanse our masajid of rifd and rawafid"

"it is impermissible to speak against the sahaba" vs "any person who speaks against the sahaba is a heretic/rafidi/khariji as per the unanimous ruling of the Ahlus Sunnah scholars"

in this last one, i choose the latter any day, and see the former comment as deliberate or unintentional political correctness given our times; "impermissible" in english can be to used for anything from theft to zina to kufriya aqaid of the qadianis to kufr/bid3ahs of rawafid to fiqh differences that the speaker adheres to, for example a person holding black die to be impermissible, will call it impermissible

just stating my preference on that "impermissible" statement by Asrar Rashid in that video (post #37). i realize it could have just been in the flow of conversation/speech. i don't think of him as a politically correct person.
 
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