Can Shahid stop his witch hunt against Shaykh Asrar

U

Uthman

sunniport user
I just heard a recent back and forth between Shahid and Shaykh Asrar.

Can Shahid once and for all stop this witch hunt. It’s embarrassing. If you have questions, man up and go ask Shaykh Asrar instead of crying to everybody online and spreading lies. Go meet him and resolve your issues, he’s telling you to and giving you time out of his schedule.
 
Uthman said:
I just heard a recent back and forth between Shahid and Shaykh Asrar.

Can Shahid once and for all stop this witch hunt. It’s embarrassing. If you have questions, man up and go ask Shaykh Asrar instead of crying to everybody online and spreading lies. Go meet him and resolve your issues, he’s telling you to and giving you time out of his schedule.
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Is this a recent back and forth? Any posts or videos?
 
Uthman said:
Go meet him and resolve your issues, he’s telling you to and giving you time out of his schedule.
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this time, please record or livestream the debate/conversation, if it is related to Sunniyat and aqaid, or maslaha for the common Sunnis - so that people can make their own minds up.

the person/entity/party shying away from a livestream has something sinister to hide, just my opinion as a common person observing from outside (for any issue, not just this one)

brother Shahid should resolve it once and for all (if the OP is correct) and not make a mockery of maslak and manhaj to the extent people start thinking of him too like the old and imported rabble rouser peers and molwis just looking to build a cult around their personalities - and eventually lose interest in deen, learning, maslak, manhaj, etc. due to peer politics

if there are any personal issues or disputes, they shouldn't have surfaced in the public sphere anyway, and who ever brought them out ought to be ashamed of himself!
 
Yes - recent.
AbdalQadir said:
please record or livestream the debate/conversation, if it is related to Sunniyat and aqaid, or maslaha for the common Sunnis - so that people can make their own minds up.
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this is exactly what Shaykh Asrar said. That if Shahid comes to meet him it will be recorded because Shahid does not like things to be recorded and then he twists things later.
 
Is there anything publicly on this though? Because if it's just private and you had some insider info, this thread didn't even need to exist. If there's an ongoing private dispute that neither party has made public (lately), then a third party shouldn't be breaching the current implied terms of engagement.

On the other hand, if this is public in some way, then please provide the links so we actually have an idea of what is being discussed. In general, I found the previous back and forth to be petty.

Shahid should concentrate on getting a job as an imam in another masjid as he has a lot to offer and any masjid in the local area should be trying to bite his hand off as far as I'm concerned, despite my disagreements with him on the shaykh asrar issue. Shaykh asrar should also publicly back shahid to show that despite personal problems, the maslak over rides everything else.
 
Mufti Shahid has fulfilled his duty of informing the public of those matters in which Asrar Rashid is wrong. He has made public videos and all the evidence has been presented academically. Asrar just needs to answer and obviously retract wherever he is wrong.

There is no "witch hunt" against Asrar.

The recent insulting manners and lack of etiquette in his voice clips and the one of his student makes it inappropriate to entertain an individual such as asrar rashid. These guys clearly lack basic adab and character whereas Mufti Shahid has not insulted Asrar.

Mufti Shahid has more serious issues to deal with right now. Issues which asrar is ignoring such as a Shiah preacher in central Masjid of Bradford.

Asrar Rashid was able to take a gang of people for his own reputation to that same Masjid in Bradford yet hasn't done anything like that to stop the shiah preaching there.

Asrar can answer the questions put to him and work on his akhlaaq and those of his students.
 
QUESTIONS FOR ASRAR RASHID

1. Why is it permissible for a layman to pray behind a deviant and not permissible just for ulama?

2. Why did you say that the questioner wanted to fuel a sectarian divide when he just wanted to know if it's allowed to pray behind deviants?

3. Is the verdict of Hanafi scholars causing a sectarian divide by declaring it impermissible to pray behind deviants?

4. By rejecting the sectarian divide it means you are non-sectarian and wanting unity between sects. Is this not clearly wrong?

5. You said that your answer is correct that you are tasked according to your knowledge only. This means the answer of past scholars is incorrect?

6. It was a random caller on ummah channel so why didn't you just tell him straight not to pray behind the deviants? Where is your oft-cited principle of sadd al-dhari'ah? Shouldn't we be preventing laymen especially from going to deviants and thereby endangering their Iman?

7. The questioner knew the places of worship were of Sunnis, Deobandis or Bengalis and the presenter even said this so he was aware of this and needed clarification. Why didn't you stop him from going to Deobandis?

8. You even stated that you are not tasked to know of the theological disputes between these groups but seeking knowledge is a duty upon every Muslim so why not educate the questioner about the deviants instead of saying he doesn't need to know and that his salah is valid behind them?

9. Why did you say that the reason our salah is not valid behind other groups is because some wipe over cotton socks and some even wipe over the feet? These things are what Wahhabis and Shi'ah do so why didn't you say it straight that it is not valid behind them due to their misguidance instead of just mentioning wiping?

10. Is it not really dangerous that you just tell a layman he doesn't need to know of our disputes with Deobandis because then the laymen will go to them and learn from them and end up becoming Deobandis?

11. Which past Hanafi scholar has given this fatwa that it is different for laymen and valid for them to pray behind deviants?

12. What if a person walked into a Shi'ah or Qadiyani place of worship then is his salah done?

13. A Sulh-e-Kulli in beliefs believes all sects are valid. If a person doesn't believe that but his actions lead to Sulh-e-Kulliyyat as he praises deviants, calls for unity with them, defends them and respects them. Isn’t this hypocrisy?

14. Is Tahir-ul-Qadiri a Sunni? Can we follow him? Can Sunnis go to Minhaj-ul-Qur’an for knowledge or should they stay away?

15. Why have you said that members of Minhaj-ul-Qur’an are Sunnis? Should you not be applying sadd al-dhari'ah and protecting laymen from going to Minhaj-ul-Qur’an?

16. Have you changed your views on Tahir-ul-Qadiri? During Imam Asim Hussain's speech you once told Sunnis not to invite him to our Masjids?

17. Senior alim Muhaddith-e-Kabir and numerous others have refuted Minhaj-ul-Qur’an as a deviant organisation so why are you calling its members Sunnis and deeming it a Sunni organisation?

18. Why did you promote and share stages with Qazi Sajid Zafar at your SBC Institute? Is he in charge of the place? Has he repented for publicly promoting Dr Tahir and Taqi Usmani Deobandi?

19. Why did you promote the book of Tahir Mahmood Kiyani of Minhaj-ul-Qur’an? Are we allowed to promote Minhajis and followers of Tahir-ul-Qadiri?

20. Why did you share stage with Umar Ali of Walsall? He has publicly defended Tahir ul Qadiri and promoted him. Where is his open statement regarding Tahir ul Qadiri and Minhaj-ul-Qur’an?

21. Asad Ali slandered A'la Hazrat رحمه الله تعالى in front of you by claiming that A'la Hazrat respected the scholarship of Ibn Taymiyyah. He asked you if he was right and you confirmed it. This is slander and Asad now admits he was wrong. Are you going to admit this mistake because you publicly supported that?

22. You said you respect the age and knowledge of Bin Bayyah just like Asad Ali respects that for Hamzah Yusuf? Can we respect deviants such as Taqi Usmani, Tahir-ul-Qadiri and Tariq Jamil for their age and knowledge?

23. Is Shaykh Samir al-Nass a reliable Sunni scholar or sulh e kulli? He has openly called for a joint mosque for sunnis and wahhabis? In spite of this why have you promoted him and defended him?

24. Shaykh Samir al-Nass has two main students who he has endorsed: Haroon Hanif and Nooruddin Rashid. Both of them call for unity with deviant sects. Why is Shaykh Samir not stopping this? It is clearly his manhaj?

25. Your students respect and promote Shaykh Samir al-Nass. Is this not dangerous given that Shaykh Samir calls for a united Masjid with wahhabis?

26. Is Shaykh Yaqoubi reliable Sunni scholar or Sulh-e-Kulli because he praises deviants, defends them and calls for unity with them?

27. Was it permissible for Shaykh Yaqoubi to call Akram Nadwi a treasure of knowledge? He respected him for his age and learning?

28. You promoted Asim Yusuf's book and he claimed that A'la Hazrat رحمه الله تعالى is weak in knowledge of Hadith. How can this be right as he is a Mujaddid? Why recommend this book when it attacks A'la Hazrat?

29. Istighathah, seeking help from other than Allah Almighty, was defended by Sunni scholars and deemed Shirk by Wahhabis. Why did our elders generally not forbid Istighathah?

30. Is it allowed to say Ya Ghawth and Ya Junayd رضي الله عنهما and can we call the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم for help?

31. Why have you misquoted the work of Imam Nabahani رحمه الله تعالى and claimed we must stop the laymen from calling upon other than Allah عزوجل due to sadd al-dhari'ah?

32. Why do you still have a khilafat from someone, Madani Miyan, who is spreading the story of Ya Junayd رضي الله تعالى عنه which is a misguiding cult story according to you? Shouldn't you be giving the khilafat back or validating someone like this?

33. Is it permissible to drink rat poison to prove that Islam is true?

34. You challenged someone during your Tirmidhi class to come forward and drink poison to see who will survive and who will die. Is this allowed in Islam?

35. You mentioned "lethal poison" as you held the rat poison in your hand in the Manchester debate. Was it actually lethal poison?

36. When the Shari'ah forbids us from self harm, why did you drink rat poison?

37. Was it a miracle when you drank the poison because it did not harm you or did it?

38. You wrote on Sunniport that poison is Haram according to all four madhhabs by Ijma, so why are your videos promoting this Ijma'i Haram?

39. You told ulama that the poison you drank was not lethal. In this case is it not deception because you waved it around during the debate mentioning "lethal poison"?

40. MMA & boxing is harmful and explicitly Haram. Why have you said it is Jihad to beat up kafirs in this sport?

41. How can these sports which are explicitly Haram be Jihad and permissible for some fighters and only Haram for others?

42. Why did you encourage the Lozells youth to become boxers or MMA fighters when it is explicitly Haram?

43. You claimed that you permitted MMA and boxing because you were entertaining youth of Lozells which is a rough area. By your principle, would it be allowed for someone to permit taking intoxicants or Haram relationships just because he is entertaining youth?

44. Why did you say that you declared MMA and boxing as Halal "as a way of jest"? Is jesting and joking about matters of the religion, thereby declaring Haram as Halal, allowed?
 
Muhammad Husnain said:
He has made public videos and all the evidence has been presented academically.
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on that same note, Asrar Rashid too has video responses

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Muhammad Husnain said:
QUESTIONS FOR ASRAR RASHID
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some of those questions are leading questions, crafted by a pseudo-faqih, to lynch Asrar Rashid. some have been addressed and put to rest.

similar questions can even be crafted against Shahid Ali on very similar matters

the only upshot is, it's great to have them listed out on paper - youtube is now littered with all sorts of videos and all sorts of to-n-fro's from anyone of any standing on any matter. it's not even like the days of limited tv channels and soaps that people could sensibly follow

so it will be great if Shahid Ali can present a written risalah of his concerns with time, date, and his seal, and Asrar Rashid can respond in writing too with date, time, and his seal.

Muhammad Husnain said:
The recent insulting manners and lack of etiquette in his voice clips and the one of his student makes it inappropriate to entertain an individual such as asrar rashid.
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if Asrar Rashid is not worth entertaining - then don't entertain him and leave him alone like the inappropriate lowlife that he is (according to you folks).

it also makes Shahid Ali's "moment of madness" apology to Asrar Rashid look like a joke.

if you/Shahid Ali present
QUESTIONS FOR ASRAR RASHID
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then you ARE under a moral obligation to entertain him and let him present his side of the picture*... and it doesn't stop at that - if the issues are of public concern to academia, maslak and manhaj (as listed above), you're also under a moral obligation to FULL TRANSPARENCY, and let everything be recorded or livestreamed!

sorry, you can't have it both ways

the awam isn't stupid, and you're not smarter than the rest of us!

*since you/Shahid Ali are the party accusing Asrar Rashid, you should be able to make time and go see him and address these issues. if you fear for your life and property at the hands of his thugs, you can go to any number of neutral venues and organize security. alternately you could also sort it out over an online meeting venue that can be independently moderated - from the comforts of your own rooms
 
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@Muhammad Husnain are you Shahid Ali?

If not, then I echo brother AbdalQadir’s thoughts.

If yes, then you will have demonstrated to everyone how sad and pathetic you are.

If you say no, but actually are, then you would be a liar.

If you flat out ignore answering this then it is a little fishy to say the least and I don’t see why anyone should bother entertaining your so-called concerns.
 
hamza1 said:
@Muhammad Husnain are you Shahid Ali?
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regardless if @Muhammad Husnain is or isn't Shahdi Ali, IF this is a recent and public incident, THEN humble advice to Shahid Ali - please don't get a big head over your protest against iran shah. you completed an obligation with Allah's Tawfiq, thank Him for it, but don't be deluded into thinking you've conquered Al-Quds or Constantinople, and you can kick anyone around like a football... that would make you too like iran shah!
 
Muhammad Husnain said:
13. A Sulh-e-Kulli in beliefs believes all sects are valid. If a person doesn't believe that but his actions lead to Sulh-e-Kulliyyat as he praises deviants, calls for unity with them, defends them and respects them. Isn’t this hypocrisy?
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where did shaykh asrar

1. say that all sects are valid?

2. praise deviants?

3. called for unity with them?

4. defend them?​

5. respect them?​

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am curious to know. there are some issues i am not happy with sh. asrar's approach, but they are not about serious charges as above. in my opinion, shaykh asrar should not attend events with shady characters, or be seen in their company. and he may have his reasons to do so. but accusing him of saying "all sects are valid" - has to be backed with proof. and if he has said so, we must certainly ask him to clarify.

shahid sahib must provide proof for this.
 
There are times a written exchange is fruitful. We have seen that here in the last 20 years with aH wiping the floor with Zameel dev, Hasanayn shiah and others.

But on this occasion, this needs a face to face recorded dialogue because it's been going on for a few years and gotten nowhere.

Questions can often be framed to implicate someone: you said this. I think it means this. Therefore, you're guilty of this and Sunnis mustn't listen to you.

Just have it out in person.

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This is a wider problem within certain circles. The internet has given everyone a voice, whether it's an objective one or not. People aren't able to differentiate between serious contraventions and minor differences in methodology.

Also, people often engineer meanings to each other's words that would give the worst possible conclusion.

E.g. Aqdas said 'Tahir ul brings his books to his lectures.'

Therefore, Aqdas is praising Tahir ul and must be a big fan.

There is no fairness left.

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I too have my disagreements with Shaykh Asrar's methodology at times. I consider them smaller matters and do wish he wouldn't associate with certain types.

How do I address this? Like I should.

I will sit with him when I get the chance and discuss it. I won't ostracise him online.

I can question a public action publicly but there is a way to do things. I won't engineer leading questions.

People will turn the UK into North India where fiqhi furu are made into iman and kufr.

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Some quarters need to write us a comprehensive definition sulh kulli. I want to see it because I still haven't. Then show us why xyz molwi is or isn't a sulh kulli.

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This drama is draining and a complete joke. Deviants are dealing with liberalism while we hack down our own.
 
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Written responses would be best from both sides, as you could sometimes say stuff in the wrong way in the video and the it gets misconstrued.
These can then be read by the followers of each without it getting highly publiicised whilst both Shaykh Asrār and Shahid ʿAlī can carry making videos refuting liberalism and other stuff which can ge spread across the internet so it is known that deviants arent the only ones tackling liberalism but the sunni's are too
 
Lol. Some of these questions are fair enough actually but some of them are stupid. For example, I don't believe shaykh asrar ever said minhaj ul Quran is a sunni organisation. He did say it has sunni members, which is not the same thing at all. This indicates a comprehension problem on the part of mufti shahid.

As for the organisation having at least some sunni members, this is patently clear to anyone who's ever met a member. Most of them will be ordinary sunni people who don't know their alif from their 'ayn and certainly won't know about tahir's antics at Wembley etc. There's no way to say that all of the members of the organisation are non sunni. It's how we don't say all deo's fall under ala hazrat's fatwa because most of them won't be aware of the actual issues.

Other questions are phrased in a way that seems like a witch hunt for sure. For example, the shaykh samir thing- it assumes that shaykh asrar knows everything shaykh samir has said, ever. A better way of phrasing it would be as two parts i.e are you aware that samir Al nass said x and if so, what do you think about it. Again, with all due respect, a mufti should understand how questions are to be phrased because if he can't understand that, his own answers will be lacking in fluency, distinction and clarity as well as subtlety. I'm a pedant, however, so maybe that's what's shining through here.

Some questions are fair game though. But since this all seems like low level junk, I'd advise imam shahid to get over it and move on with his life instead of focusing on contributing poorly thought out questions for a sunni scholar who has essentially been doing the entire heavy lifting in the English language. Sure, you can refute the guy because he did say mma is halal or whatever and we questioned him regarding this on this forum. But why waste your time figuring out if mermaids are halal whilst the Mongols pillage Baghdad, ya know?
 
Khanah said:
I'd advise imam shahid to get over it and move on with his life instead of focusing on contributing poorly thought out questions
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too late now!

now he can't pretend he didn't cause mischief... again... wrt Asrar Rashid.

now he's either gotta "entertain" Asrar Rashid - TRANSPARENTLY - or issue an unconditional "moment of madness - ii" apology before he washes his hands off this story! no other way out, morally speaking!

Deen is not a game and his 'ghar ki kheti' as a lot of cult peers seem to think, and people's times can't be wasted like this.

worse yet, if someone becomes disheartened from Sunniyat and Sunni shuyukh due to this behavior, he certainly will carry some blame for it.
 
I did attend the Brierfield (near Blackburn) event this evening and Shaykh Asrar had an open Q&A. It was an amiable environment and anyone who has any concerns would have been answered amicably but nobody came.

Just let him do his work.

I'm sorry to say but there are some people, even if a minority, who are holding Shaykh Asrar back. We've got a scholar here who can represent Sunnis at an academic level but we're stuck in pettiness.

If there are ulama who are firing from behind the scenes, that's cowardice. Either face the shaykh or hold your tongues.
 
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Shahid Ali is a loose canon, lights on nobody's home. I'm sorry to speak about him in such a manner, but when an individual decided to attack fellow Sunnis publicly, and cause the fitna he has, they loose a certain level of respect.

There are better, and more fruitful things to be doing like refuting:
- Atheism
- Materialism
- Feminism

The absolute waste of time antics Shahid Ali likes doing of causing inward fightings amongst Sunnis warrants people ignore him and turn there attention to Ullema who actually benefit Ahlusunnah
 
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