HajiNaushah
Active Member
Noor is waffling
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IslamIsTheTruth
Well-Known Member
You should alert Sheikh Asrar then.
According to this guy Asrar sahib didn't sign the document and said it was a forgery.
AMQadiri
Seeker
Ironically, this was just livestreamed today:
NBF 239- Ash-Shifa, Publishing Fatwa & Shaykh Noorud-Deen Rashid - Dr Shadee Elmasry - YouTube
NBF 239- Ash-Shifa, Publishing Fatwa & Shaykh Noorud-Deen Rashid - Dr Shadee Elmasry - YouTube
Hassan_0123
HhhhhhhM_786
If this individual has himmat, tell him to make a video on Shaykh Qasim Kuzaym and Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Khatib.
We don't want your advice Noor ud Deen Rashid.
Keep it to yourself.
Shaykh Qasim Kuzaym:
Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Khatib
This Noor ud Deen is not only sullah kulli. He is a liar.
As for Tadhkirat al-Awliya and Saba Sanabil, these books have tampering.
We don't want your advice Noor ud Deen Rashid.
Keep it to yourself.
Shaykh Qasim Kuzaym:
Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Khatib
This Noor ud Deen is not only sullah kulli. He is a liar.
As for Tadhkirat al-Awliya and Saba Sanabil, these books have tampering.
shahnawazgm
Veteran
A common trait of sulla kullis is that their hearts are void of the true love of the Messenger of Allah (saws). This is the exact reason why they find excuses in defending blasphemer groups with heretic ideologies such as Wahhabiyyah and Devbandiyyah. Contrast that with the Sahabah and our pious predecessors who used to...
This Noor ud Deen is no different and is clearly evident from his speeches. Sounds more like a politician that sullah kullis are!
This Noor ud Deen is no different and is clearly evident from his speeches. Sounds more like a politician that sullah kullis are!
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Noor says Devs are Sunni.
This is my take on it. If I'm mistaken, please correct my understanding.
---
Devbandis are deviants for a few reasons.
Devbandis fall into some or all of these:
1. They accept passages in which RasulAllah ﷺ has been insulted. This is kufr.
2. They accept passages in which the necessities of faith have been denied. E.g. finality of prophethood. This is kufr.
3. They claim Ahl al-Sunnah commit shirk. E.g. when we say Ya RasulAllah ﷺ. This takes devbandis out of Ahl al-Sunnah.
4. They claim Ahl al-Sunnah commit bidah. E.g. when we celebrate Mawlid. This takes them out of Ahl al-Sunnah for opposing the greater majority.
5. They follow molwis who wrote the passages mentioned above.
6. They follow molwis who declared Ahl al-Sunnah mushriks and bidyis.
7. They admit the possibility of falsehood in Divine Speech.
This is my take on it. If I'm mistaken, please correct my understanding.
---
Devbandis are deviants for a few reasons.
Devbandis fall into some or all of these:
1. They accept passages in which RasulAllah ﷺ has been insulted. This is kufr.
2. They accept passages in which the necessities of faith have been denied. E.g. finality of prophethood. This is kufr.
3. They claim Ahl al-Sunnah commit shirk. E.g. when we say Ya RasulAllah ﷺ. This takes devbandis out of Ahl al-Sunnah.
4. They claim Ahl al-Sunnah commit bidah. E.g. when we celebrate Mawlid. This takes them out of Ahl al-Sunnah for opposing the greater majority.
5. They follow molwis who wrote the passages mentioned above.
6. They follow molwis who declared Ahl al-Sunnah mushriks and bidyis.
7. They admit the possibility of falsehood in Divine Speech.
Seif Eddine
New Member
If someone calls himself Deobandi but rejects all of this, is he still considered a deviant?
From what i understood from Shaykh Noor ud Deen, he still calls someone who holds the views 1-2-3-5 as deviant, as he did for al-Kawthari.
Is it still fair to say that he is sulh kulli? I may be misunderstanding either what he said or what sulh kullism is, but i am pretty new here so looking forward to having a better understanding inshaAllah.
BarakAllahu fikum
Habib Umar ibn Hafiz is mistaken but ....at least not as much as Sh Sa'id.
Sh Sa'id Foudah wrote a whole book on the topic of imkan al-kadhib just to come to a similar conclusion as Nuh Ha Mim Keller
shahnawazgm
Veteran
Mawlana @abu Hasan - What are your thoughts about this where Arab ulema side with Deobandis? Are they excused as they do not understand urdu? And if this is the case then why do they even pass their judgement on the issue without thorough investigation? In any court a judge hears both sides and thoroughly examines evidences presented by each side before passing judgement.
I'm not Sh Abu Hasan but generally, they are excused even if they wrongly pass judgement. But not in the case of Sh Sa'id who openly wrote a whole book on the topic of imkan al-kadhib just to come to a similar conclusion as Deobandis even if they say imkan al-kadhib is muhal 'aqlan themselves.
Or if they defend the Deobandi ibaraat openly.
In the case of Sh Samir al-Nass, I wrote the following:
Correcting Shaykh Samir on the Deobandi issue:
Shaykh Dr Samir al-Nass is a famed personality in the West, mostly popularized by the youth due to his classes that are accessible. Here is a brief introduction to Sh. Samir by an internet site that promotes his classes:"Shaykh Samir al-Nass was born in Damascus, Syria, where he studied at the College of Medicine of the University of Damascus. He went on to study in the United States where he qualified in internal medicine.The Shaykh has studied under some of the great ‘ulama of the Levant (Shaam) and the Arabian peninsula. He has a traditional license to teach (ijazah) in the ten styles of recitation of the narration of the Shatibiyyah and the Durra from Shaykh Muhammad Sukkar. He received an ijazah in the ten styles of recitation of the narration of Tayyibah from the Egyptian Shaykh Ahmad Mustafa in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, himself a student of Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Zayyat of Egypt. Shaykh Samir has a traditional license to teach (ijazah) in Islamic law (fiqh) and theology and creed (‘aqida) from the previous Mufti of Syria, Shaykh Abu Yusr Ibn Abidin, Shaykh Lutfi al-Fayumi, and the late Hanafi Mufti, Shaykh Adib al-Kallas.Shaykh Samir was honoured to study hadith in Mecca with the great Indonesian-Meccan Shaykh Yasin al-Fadani, and with Shaykh Nur ud-dinItr of Syria. He also has an ijazah in Prophetic traditions (hadith) from the late Shaykh Abd Allah Siraj al-Din of Aleppo, Syria.Shaykh Samir is presently a teacher in the al-Fatih al-Islami University in Damascus, teaching the Hanafi fiqh manual Al-Hidayah in the department of Islamic Law (Shariah), and lecturer on the ten recitations of the Qur'an in the MA programme. The Shaykh teaches Qur'anic recitation (tajwid) after fajr prayers daily in the blessed mosque of Shaykh IbnArabi, a post given to him by his Shaykh and father-in-law, one of the illustrious Shaykhs of Quran in the Levant (Sham), the late Shaykh Muhammad Sukkar. Shaykh Samir has been teaching various Islamic studies intensive courses in England and North America since 2000."
Shaykh Samir quotes the hadith of Sayyida Ai`sha al-Siddiqa radhiyAllahu ta`ala anha where she radhiyAllahu anha is referring to is dhati ilm al-ghayb whereas Deobandiyyah deny atai ilm al-ghayb and even make blasphemous comparisons. To add, the Shaykh denies that the Deobandiyyah made a statement in Hifz al-Iman, insulting the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salim and comparing his knowledge. Shaykh Samir al-Nass has denied that the Deobandiyyah ever made this statement and this is very incorrect and unfactual. When one reads the original books of the Deobandiyya, one can see that this comparison was made and even the Deobandiyyah admit this on their sites and in their books. A famous Deobandi propoganda site, Deobandi.org, translated the passage from Hifz al-Iman of Ashraf ‘Ali Thanawi:
"This usage is not permissible even if it was with a [particular] interpretation, because it conceives of shirk, just as the usage of their statement ra’ina was prohibited in the Qur’an (2:104)[1] and their statement “my male slave” (‘abdi) and “my female slave” (amati) [was prohibited] in the hadith, as transmitted by Muslim in his Sahih (Kitab al-Alfaz min al-Adab wa Ghayriha); since the general [usage of the term] ghayb in the legal usages is that for which no proof was erected and there is no means or path to its perception. [Based] on this, Allah (Exalted is He) said, “Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows the ghayb” (27:65), “Had I knowledge of the ghayb, I should have abundance of wealth” (7:188) and other verses. If this were allowed by interpretation, it would entail that it would be correct to use khaliq (Creator), raziq (Sustainer), malik (Master), ma’bud (Deity) and other attributes of Allah (Exalted is He), exclusive to His (Exalted is He) Essence, for the creation by an interpretation. It would also imply that by another interpretation the use of the term ‘alim al ghayb would be negated from Allah (Exalted is He), since He (Exalted is He) is not the knower of ghayb by means of a medium or by accident, so would any sane religious person allow its negation [from Him]? Far be it, of course not.Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: what does he mean by this ghayb? Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, whichever part it may be? If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers (Allah bless him and grant him peace), since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him. Hence, if the questioner permits the usage [of the term] ‘alim al ghayb for one because of his knowledge of a part of the ghayb, it would be necessary for him to allow its usage for all those mentioned, and if that was the case, it would not then be from the perfections of prophethood because they all share in it; and if it is not the case, he will be asked for a distinction, and will find no path to it" (Taken from http://www.deoband.o...the-innovators/).The following is the Urdu transliteration of this:"Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: what does he mean by this ghayb? Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, whichever part it may be? If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers (Allah bless him and grant him peace), since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him.""phir yê ke âp kî dhât muqaddasa parilm-e-ghayb kâ hukm kiyâ jânâ agar be qawl zayd sahîh hô tô daryâfat talab amri yê hê ke us ghayb se murâd ba`z [ba`D] ghayb hê yâ kul ghayb agar ba`z ulûm ghaybiyya murâd hê tô is mê Huzûr hi ki kyâ takhsîs hê AYSÂilm-e-ghayb tô zayd-o-`amr-o-balke har sabî-o-majnûn balke jamî`Haywânât-o-bahâhum ke liye bhi Hâsil hê kayûn kê har shakhs kô kisî ne kisî aysî bât kâ ilm hôtâ hê jô dusrê shakhs se makhfi hê)"
Please note that after Ashraf Ali Thanawi wrote such a blasphemous comparison and Imam Ahmad Ridha rahmatullahi taala alayh and the Ulama of the Haramayn al-Sharifayn did takfir of him, still--the followers of the Deobandiyyah attempted to make false excuses and in the process, ultimately made takfir of themselves.
Manzur Ahmad Sambhali his book "Fath e Bareilly ka Dilkash Nazara" writes on pg. 32 that "aysa here is not used for tashbih but rather it is used in the meaning of "itna" and he continues on pg 35 that "to say it is tashbih is kufr". The same is written by him on pg. 40 and 48 of the same book and by Murtaza Dharbangi (known commonly as Chanpuri) in his book "Tawzih al-Bayan fi Hifz al-Iman" on pgs 8 and 17.Now, this ii contradicted by another Deobandi, Husayn Ahmad Tandwi in his Shihab al-Thaqib, pg. 108 where he says that to say that "aysa" in Urdu means "itna" (as much) is kufr.
2. The usage of the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu ta`ala anha by Shaykh Samir
Shaykh Samir quotes a hadith of Sayyida A`isha as-Siddiqa radhiyAllahu anha in regards to the ilm al-ghayb issue. The Shaykh states that Sayyida A`isha radhiAllahu anha denied that the Prophet sal Allahu ta`ala alayhi wa salim has ilm al-ghayb whereas the Ahlus Sunna say that Sayyida A`isha radhiyAllahu anha was not denying ilm al-ghayb atai but was speaking about ilm al-ghayb dhaati and it is probable that is what Shaykh Samir meant.The full hadith is as follows:حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ مَسْرُوقٍ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ مَنْ حَدَّثَكَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم رَأَى رَبَّهُ فَقَدْ كَذَبَ وَهْوَ يَقُولُ {لاَ تُدْرِكُهُ الأَبْصَارُ} وَمَنْ حَدَّثَكَ أَنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ فَقَدْ كَذَبَ، وَهْوَ يَقُولُ لاَ يَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ.Please note: The tatbiq (reconciliation) between the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu anha and the other ahadith affirming ilm al-ghayb is that the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu anha is referring to dhati ilm al-ghayb (that which is known in and of itself) and the ahadith al mubarakah affirmingilm al-ghayb refers to ata`i ilm al-ghayb (that which is given by Allah ta`ala). We, as Ahl al-Sunna, believe that the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salim, hasilm al-ghayb, by the ata` (granting) of Allah ta`ala.Imam Abu Nu`aym narrates in Hilyat al-Awliya a sahih hadith :حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ ، ثَنَا بَكْرُ بْنُ سَهْلٍ ، ثَنَا نُعَيْمُ بْنُ حَمَّادٍ ، ثَنَا بَقِيَّةُ ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ ، ثَنَا أَبُو الزَّاهِرِيَّةِ ، عَنْ كَثِيرِ بْنِ مُرَّةَ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ ، قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ قَدْ رَفَعَ لِيَ الدُّنْيَا فَأَنَا أَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهَا وَإِلَى مَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ فِيهَا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ كَأَنَّمَا أَنْظُرُ إِلَى كَفِّي هَذِهِ ، جَلِيَّانِ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ جَلاهُ لِنَبِيِّهِ كَمَا جَلاهُ لِلنَّبِيِّينَ قَبْلَهُ Translation: Rasulallah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam said: Verily AllahAzza Wa Jall raised the world for me so that I could see all that was therein and all that is going to happen till Judgement day and I could see it (as clearly and plainly) as I could see my hand.This hadith clearly affirms the ata`i ilm of the Prophet sal Allahualayhi wa salim. Another hadith in Sahih Muslim is as follows:وحَدَّثَنِي يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الدَّوْرَقِيُّ ، وَحَجَّاجُ بْنُ الشَّاعِرِ جَمِيعًا ، عَنْ أَبِي عَاصِمٍ ، قَالَ حَجَّاجٌ ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَاصِمٍ ، أَخْبَرَنَا عَزْرَةُ بْنُ ثَابِتٍ ، أَخْبَرَنَا عِلْبَاءُ بْنُ أَحْمَرَ ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو زَيْدٍ يَعْنِي عَمْرَو بْنَ أَخْطَبَ ، قَالَ : " صَلَّى بِنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْفَجْرَ وَصَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى حَضَرَتِ الظُّهْرُ ، فَنَزَلَ فَصَلَّى ثُمَّ صَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى حَضَرَتِ الْعَصْرُ ثُمَّ نَزَلَ ، فَصَلَّى ثُمَّ صَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى غَرَبَتِ الشَّمْسُ ، فَأَخْبَرَنَا بِمَا كَانَ وَبِمَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ فَأَعْلَمُنَا أَحْفَظُنَا " .Translation: Rasulallah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam did his Fajr Salaah one day and rose upon the pulpit and gave us a sermon until the DHuhr time arrived; He got down and did his DHuhr Salaah and rose upon the pulpit (again) and gave us a sermon until theAsr time arrived; He got down and did his ASr Salaah and rose upon the pulpit and gave us a sermon until the sun set. So, (therein) he told us of (gave us the news) all things that would happen till judgement day. The narrator said: the most knowledgeable amongst us is he who remembers the most. Another note: there is a principle that affirmation takes precedence over rejection, entailing that the affirmation of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salam's ilm takes precedence over any outward rejection. Imam al-Nawawi writes: والمثبت مقدم على النافي(Sharh Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Iman)
The Deobandiyya reject the ilm al-ghayb atai of Sayyidina Rasul Allah صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ and this can be seen in the books, Taqwiyat al-Iman of Isma`il Dehlwi and Itmam al-Burhan of Sarafaraz Safdar Gakharwi
Video of Shaykh Samir an-Nass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltDNTxn-29M&feature=youtu.be
Correcting Shaykh Samir on the Deobandi issue:
Shaykh Dr Samir al-Nass is a famed personality in the West, mostly popularized by the youth due to his classes that are accessible. Here is a brief introduction to Sh. Samir by an internet site that promotes his classes:"Shaykh Samir al-Nass was born in Damascus, Syria, where he studied at the College of Medicine of the University of Damascus. He went on to study in the United States where he qualified in internal medicine.The Shaykh has studied under some of the great ‘ulama of the Levant (Shaam) and the Arabian peninsula. He has a traditional license to teach (ijazah) in the ten styles of recitation of the narration of the Shatibiyyah and the Durra from Shaykh Muhammad Sukkar. He received an ijazah in the ten styles of recitation of the narration of Tayyibah from the Egyptian Shaykh Ahmad Mustafa in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, himself a student of Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Zayyat of Egypt. Shaykh Samir has a traditional license to teach (ijazah) in Islamic law (fiqh) and theology and creed (‘aqida) from the previous Mufti of Syria, Shaykh Abu Yusr Ibn Abidin, Shaykh Lutfi al-Fayumi, and the late Hanafi Mufti, Shaykh Adib al-Kallas.Shaykh Samir was honoured to study hadith in Mecca with the great Indonesian-Meccan Shaykh Yasin al-Fadani, and with Shaykh Nur ud-dinItr of Syria. He also has an ijazah in Prophetic traditions (hadith) from the late Shaykh Abd Allah Siraj al-Din of Aleppo, Syria.Shaykh Samir is presently a teacher in the al-Fatih al-Islami University in Damascus, teaching the Hanafi fiqh manual Al-Hidayah in the department of Islamic Law (Shariah), and lecturer on the ten recitations of the Qur'an in the MA programme. The Shaykh teaches Qur'anic recitation (tajwid) after fajr prayers daily in the blessed mosque of Shaykh IbnArabi, a post given to him by his Shaykh and father-in-law, one of the illustrious Shaykhs of Quran in the Levant (Sham), the late Shaykh Muhammad Sukkar. Shaykh Samir has been teaching various Islamic studies intensive courses in England and North America since 2000."
Shaykh Samir quotes the hadith of Sayyida Ai`sha al-Siddiqa radhiyAllahu ta`ala anha where she radhiyAllahu anha is referring to is dhati ilm al-ghayb whereas Deobandiyyah deny atai ilm al-ghayb and even make blasphemous comparisons. To add, the Shaykh denies that the Deobandiyyah made a statement in Hifz al-Iman, insulting the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salim and comparing his knowledge. Shaykh Samir al-Nass has denied that the Deobandiyyah ever made this statement and this is very incorrect and unfactual. When one reads the original books of the Deobandiyya, one can see that this comparison was made and even the Deobandiyyah admit this on their sites and in their books. A famous Deobandi propoganda site, Deobandi.org, translated the passage from Hifz al-Iman of Ashraf ‘Ali Thanawi:
"This usage is not permissible even if it was with a [particular] interpretation, because it conceives of shirk, just as the usage of their statement ra’ina was prohibited in the Qur’an (2:104)[1] and their statement “my male slave” (‘abdi) and “my female slave” (amati) [was prohibited] in the hadith, as transmitted by Muslim in his Sahih (Kitab al-Alfaz min al-Adab wa Ghayriha); since the general [usage of the term] ghayb in the legal usages is that for which no proof was erected and there is no means or path to its perception. [Based] on this, Allah (Exalted is He) said, “Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows the ghayb” (27:65), “Had I knowledge of the ghayb, I should have abundance of wealth” (7:188) and other verses. If this were allowed by interpretation, it would entail that it would be correct to use khaliq (Creator), raziq (Sustainer), malik (Master), ma’bud (Deity) and other attributes of Allah (Exalted is He), exclusive to His (Exalted is He) Essence, for the creation by an interpretation. It would also imply that by another interpretation the use of the term ‘alim al ghayb would be negated from Allah (Exalted is He), since He (Exalted is He) is not the knower of ghayb by means of a medium or by accident, so would any sane religious person allow its negation [from Him]? Far be it, of course not.Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: what does he mean by this ghayb? Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, whichever part it may be? If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers (Allah bless him and grant him peace), since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him. Hence, if the questioner permits the usage [of the term] ‘alim al ghayb for one because of his knowledge of a part of the ghayb, it would be necessary for him to allow its usage for all those mentioned, and if that was the case, it would not then be from the perfections of prophethood because they all share in it; and if it is not the case, he will be asked for a distinction, and will find no path to it" (Taken from http://www.deoband.o...the-innovators/).The following is the Urdu transliteration of this:"Moreover, if this usage were correct for his holy essence (Allah bless him and grant him peace) according to the statement of a questioner, we will ask for clarification from him: what does he mean by this ghayb? Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, whichever part it may be? If he intended a part of the ghayb, there is no speciality in this for the Chief of Messengers (Allah bless him and grant him peace), since the knowledge of some ghayb, even if it is little, is attainable by Zayd and ‘Amr, rather every child and madman, rather all animals and beasts, because every one of them knows something another does not know and [something that is] hidden from him.""phir yê ke âp kî dhât muqaddasa parilm-e-ghayb kâ hukm kiyâ jânâ agar be qawl zayd sahîh hô tô daryâfat talab amri yê hê ke us ghayb se murâd ba`z [ba`D] ghayb hê yâ kul ghayb agar ba`z ulûm ghaybiyya murâd hê tô is mê Huzûr hi ki kyâ takhsîs hê AYSÂilm-e-ghayb tô zayd-o-`amr-o-balke har sabî-o-majnûn balke jamî`Haywânât-o-bahâhum ke liye bhi Hâsil hê kayûn kê har shakhs kô kisî ne kisî aysî bât kâ ilm hôtâ hê jô dusrê shakhs se makhfi hê)"
Please note that after Ashraf Ali Thanawi wrote such a blasphemous comparison and Imam Ahmad Ridha rahmatullahi taala alayh and the Ulama of the Haramayn al-Sharifayn did takfir of him, still--the followers of the Deobandiyyah attempted to make false excuses and in the process, ultimately made takfir of themselves.
Manzur Ahmad Sambhali his book "Fath e Bareilly ka Dilkash Nazara" writes on pg. 32 that "aysa here is not used for tashbih but rather it is used in the meaning of "itna" and he continues on pg 35 that "to say it is tashbih is kufr". The same is written by him on pg. 40 and 48 of the same book and by Murtaza Dharbangi (known commonly as Chanpuri) in his book "Tawzih al-Bayan fi Hifz al-Iman" on pgs 8 and 17.Now, this ii contradicted by another Deobandi, Husayn Ahmad Tandwi in his Shihab al-Thaqib, pg. 108 where he says that to say that "aysa" in Urdu means "itna" (as much) is kufr.
2. The usage of the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu ta`ala anha by Shaykh Samir
Shaykh Samir quotes a hadith of Sayyida A`isha as-Siddiqa radhiyAllahu anha in regards to the ilm al-ghayb issue. The Shaykh states that Sayyida A`isha radhiAllahu anha denied that the Prophet sal Allahu ta`ala alayhi wa salim has ilm al-ghayb whereas the Ahlus Sunna say that Sayyida A`isha radhiyAllahu anha was not denying ilm al-ghayb atai but was speaking about ilm al-ghayb dhaati and it is probable that is what Shaykh Samir meant.The full hadith is as follows:حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ مَسْرُوقٍ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ مَنْ حَدَّثَكَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم رَأَى رَبَّهُ فَقَدْ كَذَبَ وَهْوَ يَقُولُ {لاَ تُدْرِكُهُ الأَبْصَارُ} وَمَنْ حَدَّثَكَ أَنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ فَقَدْ كَذَبَ، وَهْوَ يَقُولُ لاَ يَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ.Please note: The tatbiq (reconciliation) between the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu anha and the other ahadith affirming ilm al-ghayb is that the hadith of Sayyida Aisha radhiAllahu anha is referring to dhati ilm al-ghayb (that which is known in and of itself) and the ahadith al mubarakah affirmingilm al-ghayb refers to ata`i ilm al-ghayb (that which is given by Allah ta`ala). We, as Ahl al-Sunna, believe that the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salim, hasilm al-ghayb, by the ata` (granting) of Allah ta`ala.Imam Abu Nu`aym narrates in Hilyat al-Awliya a sahih hadith :حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ ، ثَنَا بَكْرُ بْنُ سَهْلٍ ، ثَنَا نُعَيْمُ بْنُ حَمَّادٍ ، ثَنَا بَقِيَّةُ ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ ، ثَنَا أَبُو الزَّاهِرِيَّةِ ، عَنْ كَثِيرِ بْنِ مُرَّةَ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ ، قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ قَدْ رَفَعَ لِيَ الدُّنْيَا فَأَنَا أَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهَا وَإِلَى مَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ فِيهَا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ كَأَنَّمَا أَنْظُرُ إِلَى كَفِّي هَذِهِ ، جَلِيَّانِ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ جَلاهُ لِنَبِيِّهِ كَمَا جَلاهُ لِلنَّبِيِّينَ قَبْلَهُ Translation: Rasulallah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam said: Verily AllahAzza Wa Jall raised the world for me so that I could see all that was therein and all that is going to happen till Judgement day and I could see it (as clearly and plainly) as I could see my hand.This hadith clearly affirms the ata`i ilm of the Prophet sal Allahualayhi wa salim. Another hadith in Sahih Muslim is as follows:وحَدَّثَنِي يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الدَّوْرَقِيُّ ، وَحَجَّاجُ بْنُ الشَّاعِرِ جَمِيعًا ، عَنْ أَبِي عَاصِمٍ ، قَالَ حَجَّاجٌ ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَاصِمٍ ، أَخْبَرَنَا عَزْرَةُ بْنُ ثَابِتٍ ، أَخْبَرَنَا عِلْبَاءُ بْنُ أَحْمَرَ ، حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو زَيْدٍ يَعْنِي عَمْرَو بْنَ أَخْطَبَ ، قَالَ : " صَلَّى بِنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْفَجْرَ وَصَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى حَضَرَتِ الظُّهْرُ ، فَنَزَلَ فَصَلَّى ثُمَّ صَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى حَضَرَتِ الْعَصْرُ ثُمَّ نَزَلَ ، فَصَلَّى ثُمَّ صَعِدَ الْمِنْبَرَ ، فَخَطَبَنَا حَتَّى غَرَبَتِ الشَّمْسُ ، فَأَخْبَرَنَا بِمَا كَانَ وَبِمَا هُوَ كَائِنٌ فَأَعْلَمُنَا أَحْفَظُنَا " .Translation: Rasulallah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam did his Fajr Salaah one day and rose upon the pulpit and gave us a sermon until the DHuhr time arrived; He got down and did his DHuhr Salaah and rose upon the pulpit (again) and gave us a sermon until theAsr time arrived; He got down and did his ASr Salaah and rose upon the pulpit and gave us a sermon until the sun set. So, (therein) he told us of (gave us the news) all things that would happen till judgement day. The narrator said: the most knowledgeable amongst us is he who remembers the most. Another note: there is a principle that affirmation takes precedence over rejection, entailing that the affirmation of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa salam's ilm takes precedence over any outward rejection. Imam al-Nawawi writes: والمثبت مقدم على النافي(Sharh Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Iman)
The Deobandiyya reject the ilm al-ghayb atai of Sayyidina Rasul Allah صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ and this can be seen in the books, Taqwiyat al-Iman of Isma`il Dehlwi and Itmam al-Burhan of Sarafaraz Safdar Gakharwi
Video of Shaykh Samir an-Nass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltDNTxn-29M&feature=youtu.be
Unbeknown
Senior Moderator
As per deobandi theology, Habib 'Ali Jifri is also a mushrik - as are all those who are present with him - for accepting his words and praising Allah for them:
Watch from start - but especially from 6 minutes on. Habib Ali is explaining the kayfiyyah with which one should greet the Prophet (peace be upon him) in tashahhud. If this is not istighraaq - I don't know what is.
Sunni By Nature
Active Member
I'm curious about why nobody ever mentions Shaykh Muhammad Awammah's extensive praise of the Deobandi elders and contemporary scholars from Darul Ulum Deoband, despite being aware of their statements and mistakes especially considering that he is the most senior person featured in the video compilation.
The same can be said with regards to Shaykh Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudda
No doubt whenever this topic of the Arab scholars is brought up, many of the same points are repeated. But one thing you notice when you see these arab scholars speak of the deobandis, is that they seem to have read at least a few of their works in Arabic. It's not just that deos meet them in person and poison their minds but that they read these books and feel impressed and whatnot.
I think the idea of shaykh asrar to translate many of the top barelwi works into Arabic is going to go a long way in turning the tide. Such works should be sent for free to Arab scholars and madrassah libraries and we, the lay public, should fund such efforts.
This would impress upon their minds that the imams of the barelwis are intellectually rigorous and perhaps prod them to think that this is more than just a misunderstanding.
I think the idea of shaykh asrar to translate many of the top barelwi works into Arabic is going to go a long way in turning the tide. Such works should be sent for free to Arab scholars and madrassah libraries and we, the lay public, should fund such efforts.
This would impress upon their minds that the imams of the barelwis are intellectually rigorous and perhaps prod them to think that this is more than just a misunderstanding.
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