should we promote Daniel Haqiqatjou?

[Unbeknown]

This thread branches off from the one here

Daniel clarifying his own position - namely that his position is to oppose liberalism and the obvious war on Islam at a fundamental level

listen from 1:00:13 onwards, him citing his appraisal of the work devbandis have supposedly done. an emotional Barelwi might write him off as a devbandi stooge*, but his overall larger picture and the work done for it needs to be acknowledged and Barelwis should be having our own duaat for addressing those same issues of tackling the overt war on Islam in general, and also harnessing talent like this

* at this point, i'm not too sure if he knows about the blasphemies of the 4 tawaghit or worse yet agrees with zaleel's justifications of them, but he clearly is standing very close to the edge of the cliff with zaleel ready to push him off. it's our job as Barelwis to try our best to reach out to uninformed people such as this.

I was once optimistic about DH - but no more. If a person is fair minded - he doesn't swallow everything shoved down his throat like it's nectar - especially when it's about a group of Muslims - and the largest group on planet Earth at that! ( ask Yasir Qadhi, if you don't believe me)

There are natures and there are natures - some people are instinctively attracted to truth and purity, others prefer illusions and inpurity.

DH appears to belong to the latter category - in my opinion. One can't consistently be promoting heresy after heresy and wallowing in the company of some of the worst heretics on Planet E, and remain unaffected by it - no one's heart's so immune.

Please don't tell me that he is like Arab Sunnis who don't know the reality of Devbandis. Arab sunnis don't promote heresy.

And also don't tell me that it's because sunnis are not working hard enough - there are ample resources on the internet from Arab shuyukh for anyone who wishes to ascertain truth.

The one who seeks light is drawn to the candle by self-motivation - it doesn't need pushing and shoving and force-feeding.

Why is it that even among Arab speaking scholars he is drawn to the wrong crowd?

I also have a feeling that he is losing what humility he initially seemed to possess.

Whether fate or circumstances or predeliction, for whatever reasons, he has chosen the path of heresy and falsehood and doesn't appear likely to be snapping out of it anytime soon.

It's a well known pattern now - most of these heretics (or ignorants - take your pick) first shine as debaters who are only interested in defending Islam against outsiders - then slowly they begin to speak about subjects they are not experts in - and people follow them blindly - having first been impressed by their neutral skills. (Blind following afterall, has always been the most popular poison for committing spiritual suicide).

I am not saying that he can never change or that no one should even try to help him or that he is going to die as a heretic.

All I wish is Sunnis youth be warned to view his output critically and not take his word on any religious subject without cross-checking.

Debating skills are nothing unique - many non-Muslims possess them too.

Aqeedah and Imaan are far more important than learning mere tactics to shut up non-muslims.Whats the use of learning how to tackle atheists if in the process you risk falling into heresy or losing Iman altogether?

Giving da'wah to non-muslims is not an individual obligation but safeguarding against heresies is.

If that makes me an "emotional barailwi" - no regrets.

wa Allahu a'alam

 

[AbdalQadir]

One can't consistently be promoting heresy after heresy and wallowing in the company of some of the worst heretics on Planet E, and remain unaffected by it - no one's heart's so immune.

bro, your entire post seems to suggest that DH is promoting heresies, devbandi (or possibly wahabi).

that he is an ardent ibn Taymiyyah fan is a given, but that TOO is a moot point, given that the guy only sticks to his focus area - liberalism, democracy, feminism, human rights etc. i haven't seen him speak on aqidah or fiqh or the perils of tasawwuf! in fact some of the (devbandi pretending to be Sufi oriented) contributors on his site have promoted Imam Ghazali and Mujaddid Alf Thani rahimahumullah as well.

where has he been promoting heresies?

he's one of the few guys i've seen on the net who picked up that perennialist jonathan brown on saying that western society should be accepting of blasphemies agaisnt the Prophet sal Allahu 3alaihi wa sallam, and picked up Shadi Elmasry for nodding his head on that comment (a supposed Mawlid-celebrating Ashari who despised the devbandis donkey comment, but also loves taqi uthmani a lot). Elmasry gave some explanation or maybe a retraction for his behavior but i don't believe he called out jonathan brown for that heinous comment. Allahu a3lam.

ask Yasir Qadhi, if you don't believe me

that was quite a pleasantly surprising talk to see from YQ. a stopped clock moment for him. lol, he has implicitly agreed to najdi dawah as being a vein of kharijiism.

nonetheless, DH too seems to be of the same predeliction - that you (a wahabi/iT fanboy) can't just blast Asharis and all those who do Mawlid and tawassul

---

Please don't tell me that he is like Arab Sunnis who don't know the reality of Devbandis. Arab sunnis don't promote heresy.

actually bro, if some Arab Sunni scholars who have actually been force fed our side of the story still refuse to go hard on the devbandis, then common non-scholars have even more leeway

Why is it that even among Arab speaking scholars he is drawn to the wrong crowd?

in my observation he's drawn to the Arab scholar crowd that is similar to his own temperament - iT fans who are respectful and accepting of Asharis AND also oppose modernism and colonial hegemony (in fact this crowd is ostracized by the madkhalis who for all their love of the west and liberal tolerance and pluralism, accuse these guys of making peace with grave-worshiper mushrikeen! go figure!)

this is my own observation of Arab scholars, i may be wrong - the bulk majority of those whom the awam has access to, are Asharis who are soft on ibn Taymiyyah followers; or ibn Taymiyyah followers who are soft on Asharis (lets say 80% are these neutral all-rounder types) - the tanatan Asharis/Maturidis Sufis (example) are a very small number (lets say 8%), the ghatiya, paleed, ibn othaimeen, ibn baz types who hate Sunnis are a somewhat larger percentage than the tanatan Sufis (12% lets say), but diminishing very rapidly, ... even many of those who cite othaimeen or albani, remain tight lipped about Sunnis now

re this - lets say 80% are these neutral all-rounder types - a sizable chunk of them are infatuated by democracy and the powers that be, or are unable to speak due to fear of persecution, i'd say maybe 2/5th's of them.

disclaimer: it's my own observation/experience and the stats given by me are mere handwaving estimates! again - this is about the ulama the everyday awam has access to

 

[hamza1]

and picked up Shadi Elmasry for nodding his head on that comment (a supposed Mawlid-celebrating Ashari who despised the devbandis donkey comment, but also loves taqi uthmani a lot). Elmasry gave some explanation or maybe a retraction for his behavior but i don't believe he called out jonathan brown for that heinous comment.

Your love for Daniel has tainted your memory. It was not on THAT disgraceful comment of Brown’s that Sh Shadee was “nodding in agreement with.” It was to do with gays getting married and Sh Shadee was not nodding in agreement, but nodding to show he’s listening, as people do, and denied agreement. That was his response to Daniel’s attempt to tar him with the same brush as brown anyways.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322926749546614797

Regarding Haqiqatjou, I do not follow him closely. Probably one of the full-length videos I’ve seen of his is when he debated a foul looking and sounding murtad. My personal opinion is that he can operate like a tabloid newspaper - reactionary, outrage and click bait. Of course that doesn’t necessitate he is of ZERO benefit, but one must also beware of whom they begin to admire.

 

[hamza1]

In case anyone was interested, Haqiqatjou has collaborated with the Deo Duo:

He is also friendly with the Najdi YouTuber and Twitter influencer Farid (https://x.com/farid_0v?s=21&t=gQj3J5XGrkSHFmZ9zrWW8Q), and the great refuter of the Asharis, Jake Brancatella - so much so that he recommended the Christian, Jay Dyer, to debate him!

 

[AbdalQadir]

Your love for Daniel has tainted your memory. It was not on THAT disgraceful comment of Brown’s that Sh Shadee was “nodding in agreement with.” It was to do with gays getting married and Sh Shadee was not nodding in agreement, but nodding to show he’s listening, as people do, and denied agreement. That was his response to Daniel’s attempt to tar him with the same brush as brown anyways.

brother, your childish emotional blackmails are not funny. i remember very well what i'm talking about.

see this thread, both me and brother @Unbeknown were on it - https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/devband-and-imkan-al-kadhib-mawlana-shahid-ali.14677/ (see my post # 2 and both Shadi's and Daniel's tweets in it)

I do not follow him closely.

i too don't follow his or anyone's videos. my attention span for videos is 25 minutes tops, if it's a really worthwhile speaker and/or topic, i take 3 or 4 sessions to watch a 1 hr video.

but one must also beware of whom they begin to admire.

this is the problem with our emotional tanatan folk. it's not about love or hate or admiration. DH or Asrar Rashid (another personality some people here love to hate) or Asaduddin Owaisi or ANYONE who is defending basic and elementary deen and Muslim interests from the tentacles of the western empire, needs to be supported. the war on Islam is a very real thing and your arm chair critiques such as these neither help your own maslak nor the ummah in general

operate like a tabloid newspaper - reactionary, outrage and click bait.

please go ahead and do a better job. you will make all Sunnis proud, and we'll throw our weight behind you

you start doing work to refute democracy, liberalism, feminism, etc. i promise you i will admire you.

i haven't left it to anyone's imagination... i've declared openly on this forum like a broken record, when it comes to war on Islam, i support anyone other than open murtaddeen (qadianis, ismailis, bollywood stars etc.) be they wahabi or shia or non-blasphemous devbandis. i supported Shahid Ali too when he protested against the blasphemous movie, alongside those two devbandi clowns

In case anyone was interested, Haqiqatjou has collaborated with the Deo Duo:

what's the surprise there? he collaborates with their boss zameel all the time...

this guy - a convert from shiism to Sunniism; and putting up a sincere and organized fight against the perverted ideologies of the day (the fight is sincere regardless if you think his modus operandi works or not) - has been steadily gaining popularity on the net since 2016 or 2017 or something. can someone please enlighten me how many tanatan Barelvis have tried to harness him as a talent and groom him as "our man" on the job of refuting liberalism? he was hounded by the devs circa 2021 or 2022 give or take.

forget about this guy. we HAVE our guy in Asrar Rashid and anytime he tries to do some grassroots work for issues that actually concern the current youth, we make all sorts of fanciful insinuations and ensure we cut him down like the tall poppy that he supposedly thinks he is!

how long has it been since the terrorist onslaught on Gaza? i remember Asrar Rashid was criticized for sharing the stage with this or that guy even in the Gaza context. i don't know i don't live in the uk, but please do advise how many other Sunnis in Asrar's country have done any pro-Palestine campaigning without sharing the stage with xyz people.

if we keep up with this habit of staying insular and detached from the ground realities of the day, then we really have no right to lament why people aren't pulled like magnets towards the Barelvis and why it's such an uphill battle trying to make people understand us DESPITE being mainstream Asharis and Maturidis. just my point of view. i might be totally wrong.

 

[hamza1]

i remember very well what i'm talking about.

Apologies brother, but when you mentioned the nodding, the other discussion on gays immediately came to my mind. I wasn’t attempting to argue but to add information.

Also, I am not a “tanatan Sunni”. Do not be so presumptuous. I don’t even speak Urdu, and rely on English speakers. In fact, I am in agreement with you on emotional, reactionary Sunnis/Brillos.

forget about this guy. we HAVE our guy in Asrar Rashid and anytime he tries to do some grassroots work for issues that actually concern the current youth, we make all sorts of fanciful insinuations and ensure we cut him down like the tall poppy that he supposedly thinks he is!

how long has it been since the terrorist onslaught on Gaza? i remember Asrar Rashid was criticized for sharing the stage with this or that guy even in the Gaza context. i don't know i don't live in the uk, but please do advise how many other Sunnis in Asrar's country have done any pro-Palestine campaigning without sharing the stage with xyz people.

if we keep up with this habit of staying insular and detached from the ground realities of the day, then we really have no right to lament why people aren't pulled like magnets towards the Barelvis and why it's such an uphill battle trying to make people understand us DESPITE being mainstream Asharis and Maturidis. just my point of view. i might be totally wrong.

This I am in full agreement with.

 

[AbdalQadir]

Apologies brother,

no need to apologize. i was just speaking candidly too not attacking you. also i didn't intend to make any insinuation that you're a tanatan Sunni (a euphemism i use for insular Sunnis, borrowed without permission from proudly tanatan folks themselves) but i see how you understood it in that way.

anyways - long story short

in regards to my comment, i just want to clarify, that this is not something i just concocted myself.

when it comes to war on Islam, i support anyone other than open murtaddeen (qadianis, ismailis, bollywood stars etc.) be they wahabi or shia or non-blasphemous devbandis.

a very knowledgeable Sunni mufti from Amjadia in Karachi told me this clearly, when i was probing him on Mawlana Noorani rahimahullah taking the devbandis along with him, in his campaign against the qadianis

- when it comes to the millah and ummah as a whole (like against zionism, colonialism etc.) - we unite with ahlul bid3ah too as long as their bid3ah hasn't reached kufr
- when it comes to the Ahlus Sunnah, we (people of the 4 Sunni mazhabs) unite against the ahlul bid3ah

plain and simple. Allah knows best

 

[Alf]

a very knowledgeable Sunni mufti from Amjadia in Karachi told me this clearly, when i was probing him on Mawlana Noorani rahimahullah taking the devbandis along with him

In this clip, Mufti Kaleem Razvi is saying that a mashhoor deobandi like Junaid Jamshed must have known or had access to the fatwa of kufr on the 4 deobandis, hence there is no problem in calling him a kafir. If this is the principle, then what about people like Taqi Usmani or the two clowns from Bradford? Did Mufti Muneeb and Mawlana Shahid "unite" with kafirs for a bigger cause?

 

[Aurangzeb]

Don't Sunni's in the west share stages and 'unite' with atheists, Christians etc on occasion. Example, support Corbyn for his stance against Israel. Also, supporting Kate Forbes against Humza Yousaf for her anti LGBT stance. Some people are happy to sit with David Cameron and King Charles but won't sit with deviant Muslims. I'm not stating my view but it would be good to have clear guidelines endorsed by consensus of Sunni Ulema especially in the west where dealing with non Muslims and their interests seems part and parcel of life.

 

[Aqdas]

I'm a tanatan Sunni, الحمد لله.

And I don't have a problem with Sunni ulama like Shaykh Asrar working with heretics/sulhs providing:

1. It's unavoidable
2. You make it clear they are otherwise unreliable

But if you're just going to go there and form a Nadwah, we'll be refuting it.

 

[AbdalQadir]

In this clip, Mufti Kaleem Razvi is saying that a mashhoor deobandi like Junaid Jamshed must have known or had access to the fatwa of kufr on the 4 deobandis, hence there is no problem in calling him a kafir.

yup. his daleel amounts to - junaid jamshed is a kafir by logical deduction and/or zanne ghalib. i wonder what Ala Hazrat would have said on this takfeer by zanne ghalib.

he has 2 daleels -

1) mashhoor admi - so apparently if you're famous, it logically necessitates you're bound to be knowledgeable too! just from this he establishes that junaid knew the blasphemous sayings and not only that, was adamant on them! brilliant.

2) gustakhi of Ummuna Aishah radi Allahu 3anha -

did he do gustakhi or did he do an exaggeration on a narration?

is exaggeration on the narration of hadith kufr? is it even exactly the same thing as wad3 (وَضْع)? open question that will have clear answers we need to look for. i'm not a student of hadith. homework for self.

what about fabricating ahadith? is there ijma3 that every waade3 is kafir? see wahabi take here - link

if he (junaid) did do gustakhi, was it qadhf, wal 3eyadhu billah? (if yes, then he's categorically a murtad for denying so many verses of Quran)

if not, what's the ruling on a non-qadhf gustakhi of Ummuna Aaishah or other Ummahaatul Mumineen ridwan Allahi 3alaihinn? he alleges junaid called her "bud-zuban" (ill mannered) and "na-jaane kya kya" (who knows what other accusations) wal 3eyadhu billah. we can check the video from those days. so what's the ruling on these alleged non-qadhf gustakhis?

i agree with him on tarik zaleel being a rotten dajjal. would love to see a written fatwa takfeering him. if there are any, please do bring them forward. anyways, so junaid being associated with the guy as a 'special student' makes him equally culpable.

If this is the principle, then what about people like Taqi Usmani or the two clowns from Bradford? Did Mufti Muneeb and Mawlana Shahid "unite" with kafirs for a bigger cause?

ask to mufti Kaleem saab. btw, double check the pics/videos but i think Aslam Bandyalwi saab was present too when Shahid Ali was protesting along with the two devs.

 

[Aqdas]

Junaid Jamshed must have known or had access to the fatwa of kufr on the 4 deobandis, hence there is no problem in calling him a kafir.

I didn't listen to the video but the above is wrong. Takfir is only done when there is no doubt.

 

[Anwar.H]

And I don't have a problem with Sunni ulama like Shaykh Asrar working with heretics/sulhs providing:

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding Brother Aqdas. I understand the heretics part especially as long as the heretic belief hasn't reached kufr.

But is it also permissible to work with sulhs? Because isn't sulh basically kufr, possibly riddah especially if someone was previously Muslim? Would that be tantamount to working with other murtads and also Qadiyanis?

 

[Hassan_0123]

As for someone becoming a kafir just because they know of the ibaarat of the Deobandis is just plain out wrong. I think we need to have a discussion on the competency of some of the Muftis that we quote from.

Mufti Aal Mustafa Al-Misbahi says in the introduction to ahle qibla ka takfeer by Mufti Mutee ur Rehman that the person who doesnt know Urdu, or knows a little or knows Urdu but doesnt know the techincal terms in the books of Deobandis is not obliged to make Takfir and he wont become a kafir for not making takfir. Mufti Aal Mustafa Al-Misbahi is a very experinced Mufti and studied Ifta under Mufti Sharif ul Haq Amjadi.

 

[Unbeknown]

well I agree with everyone in some of the things that have been said - however I believe that the issue *I* am highlighting has not received due consideration.

Will expand in the coming days - in sha Allah

thank you for your patience.

 

[AbdalQadir]

Whatsapp status of a senior mufti at Amjadia KHI ( Shah Turabul Haq marhoom alma mater)

I'm tuned out of Pak news but apparently the liberal supreme court took some action appeasing qadianis

He's calling for all Muslims of all shades to get together to discuss the situation

 

[AbdalQadir]

Whatsapp status of a senior mufti at Amjadia KHI ( Shah Turabul Haq marhoom alma mater)

I'm tuned out of Pak news but apparently the liberal supreme court took some action appeasing qadianis

He's calling for all Muslims of all shades to get together to discuss the situation

View attachment 9497

Probably related. Still don't know details.

 

[Unbeknown]

Why is DH silent on tariq masood even though his favorite mufti has spoken against tariq?

Why is DH not amplifying voices of Pakistani sunnis loyal to Allah and His Rasul (صلى الله عليه وسلم) - and are fighting hard against liberals and their moles in Pakistan?

Why does DH have time to time and again highlight Israr Ahmed because YT had taken down his channel which was mass reported for anti-semitic content and for sharing daily updates on the Bangladeshi uprising against Haseena, doing podcasts with some professor who was arrested by her government for his role in the uprising and yet:

For DH Allamah Khadim Hussain Rizvi does not exist and never existed - his struggles against the liberal Pak gov of Imran Khan and others on the issue of Finality of Prophethood, the sacrifices of scores of sunnis who were martyred by government forces for demanding the eviction of the French ambassador and the thousands if not millions of Sunnis who were mobilized against the Danish Islamophobes. The handicapped old man who stood like a wall of lead against the relentless march of liberalism that is sweeping across Pakistan and braved bullets and tear gas and everything that any activist fighting against modern nation states has to go through...

all these and more activities are not worth highlighting!

He says to his fanbase: Never Forget Sebrenica !

He digs out the photo of a Pak airforce pilot who reportedly did great damage to Israelis during the six day war.

And yet, and yet, this sense of remembering and honoring those who laid down their lives for Muslims and/or were terribly oppressed by kafir governments does not move him to say even a single line in remembrance of Imam Hussain (رضى الله عنه) and the Prophetic household (صلى الله عليه وسلم) who suffered untold miseries on the sun burnt plains of Karbala.

All he had to say on the eve of Ashura is: No authentic hadith mentions any merits of Karbala.

====

The double standards are glaringly obvious.

In my dictionary such a person is called a bigot.

He may be doing some good work in one field but that doesn't exonerate him from being just and objective. If he is selectively ignoring the hard work of a large section of the ummah - infact, the largest section - then he cannot claim to speak for the entire ummah.

I don't care to praise or promote such biased individuals - whoever they be.

and Allah knows best.

 

[Unbeknown]

i too don't follow his or anyone's videos. my attention span for videos is 25 minutes top

Then how do you know he is safe to promote?

He is not a scholar by a long shot - how do you know he is not committing egregious blunders in aqida during his debates?
Has anyone verified the safety of his assertions, philosophy and arguments?

His big time pal M. Hijab is known to say stupid and dangerous things during his lectures.

How do you know DH is not doing any of that?

 

[Unbeknown]

I have some comments on the following quotes
in sha Allah
thanks for your patience

[Edit: see newer posts where I have replied]