It does not help that there is too much of a desire to be 'right', rather than do the right thing. I stand by what I said 5 years ago, Jalali sahib should've listened to the senior ulema, and nor should they have left until the matter was resolved. The moment was that one to extinguish the fire, and move on. Sadly, we are still talking about it to no benefit to Sunnis. Sometimes it's best to deploy wisdom in matters.
Khata and Fadak
- Thread starter Aqdas
- Start date
It does not help that there is too much of a desire to be 'right', rather than do the right thing. I stand by what I said 5 years ago, Jalali sahib should've listened to the senior ulema, and nor should they have left until the matter was resolved. The moment was that one to extinguish the fire, and move on. Sadly, we are still talking about it to no benefit to Sunnis. Sometimes it's best to deploy wisdom in matters.
Another bad trait this issue has highlighted, is the obsene language used that if heard on the street would give a bad impression of the area, then what must the public think of these so called leaders of the community. The discourse amongst scholars should be just that: scholarly.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this Brother? I don't really mean to criticize your perspective, more that I'm just trying to understand your point better and in its appropriate context.
who do you mean by "his conclusion"?
if you are referring to molvi imtiaz, he clearly failed to address the objection, let alone establish that asif jalali sahib's statement constitutes blasphemy. all he attempted to demonstrate was that Sayyidah Paak raDiyAllahu anha acted in accordance with the general rulings of the Qur'an al-Karim. however, this does not substantiate the claim he was supposed to prove in the debate.
He was requested by senior ulema like Hafiz Abdul Sattar Saeedi to take his words back because of the public reaction, especially how the word 'khata' is understood by the public. The aim was not to label Dr Sahib as a 'gustakh'. Far from it, Hafiz Abdul Sattar Saeedi actually visited Dr Sahib in hospital and prayed for his health. They felt it was not correct to raise such issues in public, and that's not the way to discuss the issue. Instead of listening to them, Dr Sahib wanted to have a discussion/debate over it. Conversely, they did not listen to Dr Sahib's point of view, but this was the moment where both sides could've done more to squash the issue before it got out of hand. The ulema should not have left until they agreed on a statement that could've satisfied both parties.
Let me stress clearly those ulema don't regard Jalali sahib as a gustakh or a gumrah individual.
Yes Imtiaz Shah's conclusion. He concluded that the statement in Pir Sahib's book is not indicating the possibility of 'khata-e-Ijtihad' but rather it's referring to 'Khata-e-Maasiyat', which Dr Sahib actually believes refers to Wuqu. Mufti Rashid Sahib chimes in the next day to further strengthen this conclusion by saying Dr Sahib's words were related to Khata-e-maasiyat, because he used the word in its mutlaq (generic) sense. I wanted to get your opinion on this 'conclusion'
abu Hasan
Administrator
with due respect to mawlana sahib, this is counter productive. the awaam needs to be shown their place; it is not about placating your ignorant emotions - it is about haqq. ulama should never stop speaking the truth because jahil awam is incited by shayateen and their agents.
tell them point blank: 'you shut up and listen. it is not your place to tell us what is right or not. if you don't understand the meaning of khata, then do what you are worthy of doing - else, come and learn and then give us your informed opinion.'
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though we have our criticism of jalali sb on other issues and am not very impressed by his superficial approach - he is right in this issue. if you let this go the tafzilis and their backers among rawafid would not be uncovered. this khata issue simply ripped the veils of all the closet tafzili and rawafid sitting in our ranks.
if imam azam could use 'khata' for anbiya, using it for anyone else is neither kufr nor heresy. whether it is appropriate or not, is another issue - but the sharayi hukm remains as what we have said.
the height of shamelessness of the tafzili tola is that insults irfan shah and his brother spewed - or riaz shah and other assorted heretics have been saying is not even on the table to discuss! only jalali sb's khata...
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i don't know if mufti rashid sb made videos against irfan shah and riaz shah and other shiah.
the biggest embarrassment and fall from grace is irfan shah, and that too as we say: qabr mein tang latka kay. laa Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah. poor old man, how will he face his noble father and his mother? unka bhi khayal nahin kiya?
nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
Apologising and taking those words back would have given the sunni public itself the wrong impression- everyone would have gone away thinking that this was in fact blasphemy.
Similar to the marriage in muharram issue- apologising or telling people not to do it just perpetuates the myth that it's haraam. The job of the ulema is to destroy bidah, not appease it.
Similar to the marriage in muharram issue- apologising or telling people not to do it just perpetuates the myth that it's haraam. The job of the ulema is to destroy bidah, not appease it.
It's an issue thar should've been buried a long time ago. Certainly not one that requires the traction and time that it has.
Irfan Shah was actually best placed to deal with the issue but he decided to go down a whole different route, and where has it got him? Scrambling to secure a place for Jummah.
Too many just acting in bad faith and playing on the emotions of the public.
Irfan Shah was actually best placed to deal with the issue but he decided to go down a whole different route, and where has it got him? Scrambling to secure a place for Jummah.
Too many just acting in bad faith and playing on the emotions of the public.
HajiNaushah
sunniport user
Well put Mawlana.
When Khalifa Ayub Sahib is at NMJM can you ask him if he has same stance as Nizam.
MuhammedAli
sunniport user
Mufti Rashid is very balanced but not immune from Shaytan nor from doing his work hence you see ... Khata Ijtihadi is rewarded n Khata-ordinary is not punished. There is no such thing as Khata-of-Sin. Khata is forgetfulness or misinformation. Sin is willfully breaking laws of Shariah. Khata can never be sin.
Balanced? Mufti sahib calls almost everyone (from Iqbal to Pir karam shah) qabile garift or kafir. We do sukut on Pir karam shah sahib because of ihtimal although his words were wrong and in many cases kufriya
but Mufti rashid thinks he is a qati' kafir and anyone who disagrees with him is a kafir.
Go on the old video on sedharasta4u and see his opinion
Although there is ihtimal of pir karam shah sahib's tawba (note i said ihtimal or shubha and i didn't say it was proven - see the video of syed tabassum bukhari)
For him, even Iqbal is a qati yaqini kafir as well and he may or may not stop short of declaring 'Allama Jalali one too.
