Kufri statements in everyday kalām?
- Thread starter Oowais Qassim Ali
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Oowais Qassim Ali
sunniport user
Al Allamah Ibn Abdīn says :
"Seeking Ilm about Haram statements and Kufri Phrases is Fardh. In this era, this is the most important matter"
Radd al-Muhtar, volume 1, page
107
"As a precaution, the ignorant person should renew his īmān every day and renew his nikāḥ with his wife in the presence of two witnesses once or twice every month."
— Ḥāshiyah Ibn ʿĀbidīn, Radd al-Muḥtār (1/42)
Al Allamah Badruddin Al Ayni says :
Anyone who utters an explicit word of disbelief with his mouth, or performs an action that leads to disbelief will be declared a disbeliever, even if he does not know that this word or action constitutes disbelief.
ʿUmdat al-Qari, volume 1, page 403
"Seeking Ilm about Haram statements and Kufri Phrases is Fardh. In this era, this is the most important matter"
Radd al-Muhtar, volume 1, page
107
"As a precaution, the ignorant person should renew his īmān every day and renew his nikāḥ with his wife in the presence of two witnesses once or twice every month."
— Ḥāshiyah Ibn ʿĀbidīn, Radd al-Muḥtār (1/42)
Al Allamah Badruddin Al Ayni says :
Anyone who utters an explicit word of disbelief with his mouth, or performs an action that leads to disbelief will be declared a disbeliever, even if he does not know that this word or action constitutes disbelief.
ʿUmdat al-Qari, volume 1, page 403
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Oowais Qassim Ali
sunniport user
People who debate Christians (mostly wahabis) often resort to insulting "Jesus" to "disprove" Christianity. They say that they are not insulting the Actual Prophet 'Īsā عليه السلام but instead the false Biblical Jesus.
An example:
Similarly some make edits & mockeries of the christian depiction of Jesus.
@abu Hasan is this Kufr?
An example:
Similarly some make edits & mockeries of the christian depiction of Jesus.
@abu Hasan is this Kufr?
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This is extremely common and extremely disrespectful, clear cut kufr as Christians and Muslims speak about the same esteemed, honoured, noble, great, mighty, righteous, perfect, miraculous, beloved and beautiful master, our leader Isa ibn Maryam alayhissalaam, although we theologise about him in vastly different ways. So the insults they spew against him cannot be interpreted away.
Allah says:
(4:157)
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا ٱلْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ ۚ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخْتَلَفُوا۟ فِيهِ لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّنْهُ ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِۦ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًۢا ١٥٧
and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
This appears to refer to what is mentioned in the talmud. Could the writers of the talmud later claim they were only speaking about how the Bible speaks of Jesus rather than the real true Jesus? This verse seems to clearly refute this absurd ta'weel.
Allah says:
(4:157)
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا ٱلْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ ۚ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخْتَلَفُوا۟ فِيهِ لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّنْهُ ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِۦ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًۢا ١٥٧
and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
This appears to refer to what is mentioned in the talmud. Could the writers of the talmud later claim they were only speaking about how the Bible speaks of Jesus rather than the real true Jesus? This verse seems to clearly refute this absurd ta'weel.
Oowais Qassim Ali
sunniport user
انہیں تو محبوب کو عرش پر بلانا تھا "
"ہَوس تھی دید کی معراج کا بہانہ تھا
یہ مشهور شعر اللہ تعالیٰ کی شان میں گستاخی و کفر ہے
: فتاویٰ شارح بخاری میں ہے
اللہ عزوجل ہر بری چیز سے پاک ہے۔ اس کی طرف ہوس کی نسبت کرنی گستاخی ہے۔ جس نے بھی یہ شعر کہا کہ: ”ہوس دید تھی معراج کا بہانا تھا“ اس پر اور جس قوال نے اسے گایا اورجن لوگوں نے سن کر پسند کیا ان سب لوگوں پر توبہ و تجدید ایمان اور بیوی والے ہیں تو تجدید نکاح بھی لازم ہے۔ ملخص
(فتاوی شارح بخاری، جلد1، صفحہ 217، مکتبہ برکات المدینہ)
Is it kufr, while debating Trinitarians, to say that the words "father" or "son" when used in the bible for God or His chosen servant is done in a metaphorical way?
abu Hasan
Administrator
no. if it is said in context - it means "father and son according to your claim".
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yes.
we discussed it here:
https://sunniport.com/index.php?posts/87771
what is the ruling on using the urdu word "shikayat" for Allah - if someone says "mujhe Allah se shikayat hai ke..."?
is it sareeh kufr? or is there room for tawil? is it the same as attributing zulm, wal 3eyadhu billah?
not talking about the way as said in Arabic duas اليك المشتكى - that is complaining TO Allah about one's destitution
is it sareeh kufr? or is there room for tawil? is it the same as attributing zulm, wal 3eyadhu billah?
not talking about the way as said in Arabic duas اليك المشتكى - that is complaining TO Allah about one's destitution
abu Hasan
Administrator
i
after all who are you to complain ABOUT the Creator? ['you' is not you as in AQ.]
it is not sareeh kufr. while the statement is itself deplorable and a muslim should never say this. and merely saying so cannot be classed kufr.
after all who are you to complain ABOUT the Creator? ['you' is not you as in AQ.]
how can it be? attributing zulm is kufr, though.
1) if someone says to someone, for example, "mujhe Allah se shikayat hai ke us ne mujhe beta nahin diya" (i have a complaint to Allah that he didn't give me a son). this complaining ABOUT Allah's Decree (ie objecting to it) and therefor kufr, correct?
2) per hadith, complaining TO Allah is fine. example, a mazloom tells to Allah about a zalim, "ae Allah mein tujh se is zalim ki shikayat kar raha hun" (oh Allah, i'm complaining TO you about this opressor)
3) in the same vein as 2 - what if someone says "ae Allah mein tujh se apni ghareebi ki shikayat kar raha hun" (oh Allah, i complain to you about my poverty)- in my understanding of Urdu, this is begging and pleading to Allah to change one's state, even leaving aside the tone of expression. this is similar to #2 above, correct? or is it similar to #1, and he's raising objection on his destiny as a ghareeb?
i'm not expert on Urdu and hence the question.
though the statement is reprehensible, it can be interpreted as pleading. takfir should be avoided because most people are not eloquent in their use of language. however, such a person should be advised to repent.
points 2 and 3 are clear in meaning as expressions of begging. in these two cases, the shikwa or shikayat is not directed at Allah’s actions; rather, it concerns His creation.
no, they are not the same. “aytiraz” refers to criticizing or objecting to someone’s action or statement, whereas “shikayat” can be an expression of disappointment over an unmet expectation. unless a person clearly states that they intended aytiraz, takfir should be avoided, because many people struggle to use precise vocabulary.
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اِذْ قَالَتِ امْرَاَتُ عِمْرٰنَ رَبِّ اِنِّیْ نَذَرْتُ لَكَ مَا فِیْ بَطْنِیْ مُحَرَّرًا فَتَقَبَّلْ مِنِّیْۚ-اِنَّكَ اَنْتَ السَّمِیْعُ الْعَلِیْمُ(35) فَلَمَّا وَضَعَتْهَا قَالَتْ رَبِّ اِنِّیْ وَضَعْتُهَاۤ اُنْثٰىؕ
hazrat maryam' mother was expecting a son, so رَبِّ اِنِّیْ وَضَعْتُهَاۤ أنثى is an expression of disappintment over her unmet expectation but in an utmost respectful manner. she raDiyallahu anha did not attribute the action to Allah Ta'ala, rather, she attributed it to herslef (i gave birth to a girl). common people don't have this respectful eloquence.
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her mother was expecting a son but had Hazrat Maryam radi Allahu 3anha.
adam tawajjuh, jazakAllahu khayra for pointing out. fixed
sunni_porter
sunniport user
This should be turned into a small booklet.
Oowais Qassim Ali
sunniport user
Sunnis often share contents from such western "dawah bros", it cannot be stressed enough just how dangerous those people are for the faith of the masses.
Haqiqajou says regarding a Zionist :
"Pig roast party happening in hell tonight" link
Is this a way to talk about the Hellfire?
It's crazy how the most "educated" of people slip in the most foundational of places.
It's as if concepts of "adab", "tazeem", fear of disrespect kuch cheez hi nahin hay anymore. Even some of our "sunni" scholars end up saying completely inconceivable things at times.
I only see our own people, followers of Ala hazrat care about such matters. Besides that everything gets thrown under the carpet so casually. Nobody cares.
One starts thinking, Is it us who are being the nitpicking extremists or is this actually the pristine way of our pious predecessors. It would be great to have some wāqi'āt, aqwāl regarding this matter ; just how careful one should be with his words regarding the Deen lest he falls into Kufr. Please @abu Hasan
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YaMustafa
sunniport user
Ma'azAllah I came across a statement yesterday. A businessman had made an offer to purchase a church which had closed down. He was buying the church to re-open it as a church. A Muslim commented, "It's better the building is used as a church, rather than someone else buy it and convert it to a nightclub." Ma'azAllah!
Other dangerous statements: Where one was to say we should respect all religions.
Other dangerous statements: Where one was to say we should respect all religions.
Oowais Qassim Ali
sunniport user
I'm just recording this for educational purposes, so that our people understand kaisey kaisey log iman kho beith tey Hain:
About Sayyiduna Umar, a guy on Twitter says :
"Imagine having so much aura and faith even the Prophet and his wives respect you and stop being silly out of respect around you"
200+ likes, 40K views
This is enough to radicalize a good Muslim & cause him to shun himself from the rest of the world to protect his faith
About Sayyiduna Umar, a guy on Twitter says :
"Imagine having so much aura and faith even the Prophet and his wives respect you and stop being silly out of respect around you"
200+ likes, 40K views
This is enough to radicalize a good Muslim & cause him to shun himself from the rest of the world to protect his faith
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