Debate : Israel and Palestine After Disengagement

abu nibras

abu nibras

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Assalam`alaikum

Something little different ! A debate held in Harvard between Alan Dershowitz and the inimitable Noam Chomsky on

Israel and Palestine After Disengagement: Where Do We Go From Here ?


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1.Palestine has two political parties, Fatah, which controls the West Bank, and Hamas, which runs the Gaza Strip.

2.In 2006 elections took place in Palestine under the presence of international monitoring agency. The election was declared free and fare by the international community. Hamas won the election with a majority.The U.S. and Israel never reconciled to the victory of Hamas in the elections.

(NOTE: They shout of democracy, but did not accept this democratically elected government. So it should be clear that they are against democracy. What they want is that a puppet government is installed in every country of the world. If the party which wins an election is not an ally of US, the US and Israel will do their best to uninstall that government.)
 The two sides have been at loggerheads for the past four years. The violent split between the two mainstream Palestinian groups had helped Israel stall the peace process.

Recent Developments

1.Both the parties, Fatah and Hamas have decided to bury their differences and work together in the interest of Palestinian unity.

2.Both the Fatah and Hamas have realised that two factions cannot rule Palestine separately. But nobody is taking the new-found unity for granted. Palestinian Authority (P.A.) Chairman Mahmoud Abbas pointed out that Israel would not want to see any Palestinian unity because it thrived on divisions among Palestinians. “There are no guarantees about the success of the agreement, which has many enemies, and there are attempts to undermine the agreement from many parties,” Abbas said shortly after the agreement was initialled.

U.S continues to support Israel

1.The Fatah leadership has been disenchanted with the Barack Obama administration, especially after it exercised its veto in the United Nations Security Council on the resolution condemning the Israeli settlement expansion.

2.The united front put up by the Palestinians comes at a time when the P.A.'s move to get international recognition for Palestinian statehood is gaining momentum. The U.N. General Assembly is expected to grant formal recognition to Palestine as an independent state, with or without a peace deal, in September. Only Israel and the U.S. are openly opposed to this move.

Hypocrisy of Israel



Previously the Israeli government was claiming that it had no partner to negotiate with as the Palestinians were divided. “Now the same government is saying that President Abbas must choose between peace with Israel and peace with Hamas and that he cannot have both. But Hamas is part and parcel of the Palestinian political landscape.

Hostility of Israel and U.S

1.Ever since the two factions started holding serious unity discussions in Cairo under the auspices of the post-Mubarak government in Egypt, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been issuing threatening statements. He has been saying that the only “peace partner” available to the Fatah-led P.A. is the Israeli government.

2.As a sign of the Israeli government's hostile intent, Netanyahu has withheld a planned $89 million transfer of funds meant for the P.A. The money is part of the tax collected on Palestinian territory. Israel collects tax and customs fees on behalf of the P.A., under the Paris Economic Protocol signed in 1995. Israel has on several occasions withheld the tax money to arm-twist the P.A. Two-thirds of the Palestinian budget is funded by tax receipts. Palestinian officials have decried the latest Israeli move as “financial piracy”.

3.As the unity talks began in the last couple of months, Israel resumed targeted killings in Gaza with a vengeance. After the leaders of the Palestinian factions signed the reconciliation agreement on May 4, the Israeli government began to put considerable pressure on the United States Congress to make the Obama administration cut off funding for the P.A. Hamas has been on the U.S. “terror list” for a long time. It was U.S. pressure on the Fatah-dominated P.A. that led to the collapse of the “unity agreement” in 2006. The U.S. and Israel never reconciled to the victory of Hamas in the elections held earlier that year.

4.Netanyahu and company say that American money could now end up in the coffers of the Hamas-run administration in Gaza. Netanyahu, who is scheduled to visit the U.S. soon, will use the Palestinian “unity” agreement to stall the negotiations process by telling his sympathetic audience in the U.S. that he will not negotiate with “terrorists” and those who do not recognise the state of Israel.
5.The Obama administration has been quick to endorse the Israeli position, reiterating that Hamas is a “terrorist” organisation and saying that the unity move will undermine the “peace process”. Because of Israeli settlement expansions in the West Bank and Jerusalem, the peace process has been in limbo since September last year.

 6.Israel has reasons to be upset at the turn of events. A resurgent Egypt has once again assumed its rightful place in the Arab world and is playing a key role in the region. As of now, Cairo has the backing of countries such as Turkey, until recently a strategic partner of Israel, and Iran, a major backer of Hamas.

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http://onefreeworld.co.cc/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31&sid=b25d457e2b5655760e33d8b6da9aa29c

One need to wait and watch the stand of Wahabi Kingdom as well as the development in Egypt. A few people are of the opinion that many countries talk of Palestine only to pose a "leader of muslims". But we don't have any reason to doubt as of now.
 
14 Sep 2011
U.S., Europe in Mideast peace push before U.N. showdown



JERUSALEM (Reuters) - U.S. envoys raced on Wednesday to try to revive Middle East peace talks and avert a Palestinian bid for United Nations membership, but a U.N. official said it was probably too late to stop the move opposed by Israel and the United States.


"GRAVE CONSEQUENCES"

Lieberman, who leads a far-right party in Netanyahu's governing coalition, warned the Palestinians of "grave consequences" if they pressed ahead with plans to upgrade their U.N. status, currently at observer level without voting rights.
He did not elaborate, but other ministers have suggested withholding funds from the Palestinians or annexing settlements.

Only the Security Council can approve a bid for full U.N. membership and the United States has said it would veto it.

Read in detail

http://news.yahoo.com/u-europe-mideast-peace-push-u-n-showdown-143149101.html
 
17 Sep

THE PALESTINIANS WANT RECOGNITION ON 1967 LINES. WHY?

The Palestinian Authority (PA) says placing their state firmly in the context of territory seized by Israel in the 1967 war will provide clear terms of reference and mean Israel will no longer be able to call the land "disputed." Instead, it will make clear it is occupied. Israel fears this will enable Palestinians to start legal proceedings in the International Criminal Court (ICC) against some 500,000 Israelis who live in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

COULD THE PALESTINIANS JOIN THE U.N.?

In theory, yes. But Washington has made clear it would veto such a request, meaning it has no chance of success. Even if the Palestinians secured a two-thirds majority of votes in the General Assembly, there is no getting around the need for prior approval of the Security Council.


Read in detail
http://news.yahoo.com/q-implications-palestinian-u-n-drive-180016139.html


Note 1

Americans Believe U.S. Policy Motivated 9 / 11

http://www.ukbbcnews.com/americans-believe-u-s-policy-motivated-9-11.html


Note 2

One in seven believe U.S. government staged the 9/11 attacks in conspiracy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...overnment-staged-9-11-attacks-conspiracy.html




Note 3

Note 1 is another attempt to prove 9/11 was done by some one from Gulf.The truth is this
http://www.911truth.org/links.php


 
sorry to pour oil on your plans here (have i mixed my metaphors?) but nothing is going to happen. the usa will veto any attempt at palestinian statement as uncle tom obama has already said (man WHAT a disappointment he has turned out to be!); and the whole peace process is BS; has been since the early 90s when it began.

the only time the palestinians will get their state is when imam mahdi alayhisalam arrives. [unless there is another islamic caliphate before then].
 
chomsky is a good man but all this endless talking and debating is really a pointless exercise. these people just like to debate in their ivory towers.

until AIPAC becomes toothless there is no way that the palestianians will even get the current proposed "statehood". no american president can afford to take on AIPAC. what american muslims need to do is have their own lobby...
 
that the USA will veto even any attempt to join the UN for the palestinians shows the absolute bollox of their neutrality; and then people say we are paranoid if we say the americans are not fair arbiters and that aipac controls usa foreign policy when it involves israel.

i hope all muslims and arabs, latinos and blacks and all good, upright, right thinking white people in the usa who love their country will vote for Ron Paul in 2012.

if --and it is a BIG if--he was to become the USA's next president then the palestinians might get UN membership as he has clearly stated he will adopt an isolationist foreign policy and not take sides in the israeli-palestine conflict.
which is probably why aipac will do all they can to stop him. already the mainstream media is not giving him the same level of coverage as the other candidates even though he can within a couple of 100 votes behind the second placed republican in the last poll or something...

[his domestic policies are a little bit kooky but hey...]
 
naqshbandijamaati said:
that the USA will veto even any attempt to join the UN for the palestinians shows the absolute bollox of their neutrality; and then people say we are paranoid if we say the americans are not fair arbiters and that aipac controls usa foreign policy when it involves israel.

i hope all muslims and arabs, latinos and blacks and all good, upright, right thinking white people in the usa who love their country will vote for Ron Paul in 2012.
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Whether that happens or not what we can and must do is:

1) Make dua for Muslims all over the world, especially for our brothers in Palestine( dua is the weapon of the believer)

2) Inform as many people as we can. Print media,internet, blogs etc

3) Those who can write in newspapers, books, magazine, should raise this issue of hypocrisy. A sovereign country till 1967, and now it is being denied right to join a peaceful world organization ( The UN) . Why?

When Imam Mahdi will come he will lead the Muslim army, but as of now let us use the power of pen ( and keyboard) to do something. Everything is going down in history, being written in books. The next generation must know what happened and why did it happen.

There are many Non Muslims who know and understand the suffering of Palestinians. There are many americans who don't know the policy of their government. The least we can do it to enlighten them. An average human being is concerned in his bread and butter, his family, his luxury and has no concern and interest to things which is not affecting him directly. Human memory is short lived( Try this : how many of us remember when did Tsunami happen?) We need to keep tracks of world news and events.
 
Even if US uses its power of Veto, there is still one way through which the Palestine can go to UN

Frustrated by the lack of progress with Israel and infuriated by its plans for new settlements in the occupied territories, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has said he will ask the UN Security Council to approve full UN membership for a Palestinian state.
Israel strongly opposes the move and the UShas said it will veto any request. The US insists only direct talks can set up an accord to create a Palestinian state.
If a veto is wielded, the Palestinians could then go straight to the UN General Assembly to seek an elevated observer status. It is likely to get a majority of the 193 members and no veto is possible.
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-sends-UN-into-tizzy/articleshow/10035501.cms

May Allah help us to bring peace in this world and help us to spread the true message of Islam. Ameen.
 
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