as i said in another thread, cherry picking makes an interesting hobby. one can probably find an atypical opinion for every matter under the sun; and surely you will find one scholar or the other favoring it. suyuTi for this, asqalani for that and so forth. that is a general observation.
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as for logic and suyuTi's distaste for it: he probably meant formal logic or pure reason pursued as a subject. if he meant practising logic, he would contradict himself because that is an indispensible tool of a scholar. that is why, abu shamah (nawawi's teacher) said: 'after all, every scholar [mujtahid] is [has to be] logical by nature.'
the last statement was quoted by dhahabi in his
siyar under the entry of imam ghazali.
so imam ghazali's [or ibn Hazm's] insistence on logic was surely the application of the science - not the science per se. but any organized mind knows that a formal study of these methods sharpens the mind and helps us avoid erroneous reasoning. incidentally, if you had used this 'tool' in your argument for a flat earth, you could easily see the fallacy.
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Instead we read in the quran: it's flat; it's like a carpet spread out; it's extended; it's flattened; it's like a bed..
so where does it say in the qur'an that suTiHat ONLY means flat and spread like a carpet? yeah, there are different verses: the earth is spread out, did We not make it a carpet, and We made the earth a bed, etc.
but to insist that there is no other meaning but the literal meaning invalidates the majaz of the qur'an. ironically, you are advocating the blind literalism of the ahl ad-DHahir and prominent among them, is ibn Hazm; along with the salafis in our time. if we follow your methodology,
- the infidels are honorable and respected. 'taste it, you are honorable and respectable'
- and we can walk around naked in the night because 'We made night a raiment'
- only the sins we do with our hands will be punished because: 'this is what your hands have sent forth'
- a city can answer because: 'ask the cities'
- grapes are subterranean like onions and radishes: [from the earth grow..] 'and grapes..
- keep eating in ramaDan until the black thread and the white thread are apparent because of the ayah. [which is well into daylight]
- many of us today - al iyadhubillah - eat our bretheren's flesh because most of us indulge in backbiting.
the fallacy of your logic is the premiss that
suTiHat only means flat
and in the absolute sense. yes, it is a flat piece of land stretched out for us; but does it necessitate that it is absolutely flat? for example there is an illustration of 'even a stone hath water spring from it.' [2:74] mean that water springs from every stone?
a commonly occurring expression in the qur'an is 'streams flowing underneath'; take the verse 43:51, does it mean that the pharoah was always in water? and he left a puddle where he went? because: 'and streams flow underneath me..'?
or the verse 27:88: 'you see the mountains steady; but they move, like the passing of clouds.'
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let us check this with at-Tabari, whose standing you extolled in your other post about the dhabiH:
do you not see the earth, outstretched? [al-ghashiyah, 88:20] that is extended, extensive. ayy busiTat. it is said about a mountain with a flattened top as a 'flattened mountain' jabalun musaTTaH.
[and he explains this in its proper context]
exegetes have reported from qatadah that he said: that is the earth is extended, widened; and he said: 'would it be difficult for Him who has made such an [extensive] earth, to create What He pleases in paradise?'
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No-one but no-one no saHaabi the best muslims who put islam into practice invented cars, bicycles, spectacles though material was available.
exactly. the qur'anic verse is not talking about geology or astronomy; it is describing the wonder of the Creation of Allah. this is what most mufassirs explain - check bayDawi, check ibn kathir, and who...?
suyuTi? jalalayn for you:
that is spread out. this verse is used to describe the Grand Power of Allah ta'ala and His Oneness. and the camel is mentioned because they [the arabs] were more acquainted with this animal than any other. and the 'suTiHat' obviously means that the earth is flat and not round like the physicists claim, even though [such an idea] does not nullify any core belief of the shari'ah.
{ وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ } أي بسطت، فيستدلون بها على قدرة الله تعالى ووحدانيته، وصدرت بالإِبل لأنهم أشدّ ملابسة لها من غيرها. وقوله «سطحت» ظاهر في أن الأرض سطح، وعليه علماء الشرع، لا كرة كما قاله أهل الهيئة وإن لم ينقض ركناً من أركان الشرع.
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my point is very simple: it could be flat or round; but claiming that undeniable proof exists in the qur'an for flat is unfounded. otherwise, suyuTi would have insisted upon it and not clarified that it is not a 'core point of belief'.
if you read the reasonable arguments of imam al-ghazali, you will realize that one need not be so hostile to logic and philosophy; or physicists or science in general. one can use their tools to validate our arguments.
It is asinine to even suggest a causal relationship between science and the qur'an. Islam is against science or at best contemptuous of it.
i somewhat agree with you. yes, trying to retrofit newer 'discoveries' to islamic documents [quran, sunnah] is asinine. particularly when EVERYthing is attempted to be explained in that way a la zakir naik, harun yahya etc - why, almost
a sinnin'.
didn't you read the recent chain-mail that tells us the 'scientific' benefits of prostration?
but to deny that certain marvels proven empirically are not foretold in the qur'an or sunnah is patently unreasonable. for example, the hadith speaking of final days tells of 'people competing with each other in making tall buildings'. who had thought fifty years ago, that it would be as overwhelming and insane
as this? don't say that the sunnah was not about 'civil engineering'.
RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam foretold that 'there will appear instruments of music and dancers/songstresses in every home' [Dhaharat al-ma'azif wa'l qaynaat]
ma'azif: instuments of music; qaynaat, pl of qaynah:songstress
these are proofs of prophethood. notice, that he said Sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam: 'appear' which is starkly obvious and accurate today: television and sound systems blaring a deafening cacophony is a fine example...
Allah ta'ala knows best.
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