Terrorism in Mumbai.

[Ubaid]

indiscriminate killing and butchery of innocent people in mumbai makes me very sad and very angry. the cold blooded ****** killers killed hundreds and themselves.

it seems that they were muslims. brainwashed with the hate-interpretation. khawarij held similar ideas of killing whose spiritual children were these killers. they went to hell and these ****** have also gone to hell. my condolences to all the Indians.

 

[sherkhan]

I can't see any conspiracy angle this time (although the ease with which the attack was mounted raises few eyebrows). All evidences to date seem to incriminate terrorists based in Pak (no insinuations here, but the scale and planning of the attack seems to rule out other usual suspects).

Sadly, the life of Indian Muslims gets difficult by day and any loss is eventually theirs. I wouldn't be surprised if the hindu terrorists (being investigated for their recent involvements in Malegaon, Samjhauta, Hyderabad blasts etc.) are let off the hook as a result of this unfortunate incident. With Muslims like these, who needs enemies!

 

[Wadood]

indiscriminate killing and butchery of innocent people in mumbai makes me very sad and very angry. the cold blooded ****** killers killed hundreds and themselves.

it seems that they were muslims. brainwashed with the hate-interpretation. khawarij held similar ideas of killing whose spiritual children were these killers. they went to hell and these ****** have also gone to hell. my condolences to all the Indians.

This is not a forum for bad dirty language like ******. This shows the ugliness in the mouth of some Muslims from the sub-continent. They are revenge seekers. Shouts of 'khawarij' in forums on the net, makes no difference. Most likely, those gunmen were never khawarij, but Gujaratis seeking revenge for the rape and killing of their women folk back home in Northern Gujarat.

The awful bad-word filled langauge of Pakistani Punjabis is legendary, and so is nowadays that of the urdu speaking Muslims from northern india, they use really dirty words in their language. I am sure people here are well aware of the language ettiqutte and adab of people in northern sub-continent.

Indian movies are far less to blame. When the respective language called 'urdu' has detiorated into ugly bad word filled language, then culture has certainly died. I wonder why Muslims in India have adopted Hindi and forgotten Urdu is so many areas.

It all starts with the language. Language detiriorates, hearts deteriorate, then ugliness, revenge, and closemindedness begins.

The Hindus in India are the most blood thirsty nation on earth. They are also, including with the sikhs far far more bad, foul mothed than the Muslims. I am just shocked at the level of dirty language that common Hindu/sikh buddies, children, friends, colleagues use. Its like the language has become that way.

Arabic has also become similar in some shi'a areas of the Gulf, while Iran has been mostly safe from this ill.

Dont forget that the Hindus killed 20,000 Muslims in Gujarat state a few years ago. 65% of these 20,000 Muslims killed were women and children, mostly raped and burned alive.

The Bohra MP J'afari was stripped naked and burned on the streets of Ahmedabad. His neighbours' children were doused in gasoline and blown up in a fire. I saw the child's hand blown out of the body as a result of internal body gas explosion.

These were Muslim children. Why doesn't Ubaid use his nice language for those killers?

 

[Wadood]

I can't see any conspiracy angle this time (although the ease with which the attack was mounted raises few eyebrows). All evidences to date seem to incriminate terrorists based in Pak (no insinuations here, but the scale and planning of the attack seems to rule out other usual suspects).

Sadly, the life of Indian Muslims gets difficult by day and any loss is eventually theirs. I wouldn't be surprised if the hindu terrorists (being investigated for their recent involvements in Malegaon, Samjhauta, Hyderabad blasts etc.) are let off the hook as a result of this unfortunate incident. With Muslims like these, who needs enemies!

About the Hyderabad blasts, Malegaon blasts, this is my theory.

Firstly, these are places of immense Muslim percentages. The Hindu groups called 'Shiv Sena, Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad etc' or Sangh Parivar, who too deserve Ubaid's language, are behind all of these smaller attacks on Muslims.

They have a lot of plans for the Deccan Muslims, in areas like northern Karnataka, and even for the Malabar Muslims, as there is a lot of protest going on because of the creation of the Mallapuram Muslim district in Kerala.

But, you must know, the Muslims are a huge group in India, not the 13.4% that the Indian government claims. If you look at the hospitals in Bombay, you will see that perhaps a quarter of all those injured in Bombay were Muslims, check out the pictures.

 

[Wadood]

One more thing, it is not 'Mumbai'

It is Bombay. The Sangh Parivar has another plan, to rename all the Urdu cities of India on Hindi words

Bombay become Mumbai
Ahmedabad becomes .....
Madras becomes Chennai
Benaras becomes Varanasi
etc
etc

So, do you see what is happening in India?

I remember, Indian movies used to have urdu subtitles or introductions, but extremely less now. They also had much less shamelessness years ago, good urdu language, but nowadays, nakedness, foul mouth is the routine.

I do not watch Indian movies, but this is what I have gathered from an overall look. This shows the mindset of the modern urban Indian in common.

 

[abu Hasan]

come on wadood, there is a limit.

being widely traveled is something; but to become a spokesman for every people on earth is ridiculous. you must have hardly been to india as a visitor, yet, you have become an expert and a spokesman for muslims in india?

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also, mumbai is used in old literature - i have seen old arabic journals refer to the place as mumbai with a meem. bombay was the anglicized version. but why should it matter anyway? names are just names, rose and montagues and all...

these name changes are made into issues by local petty politicians who have nothing else better to do.

---

So, do you see what is happening in India?

they changed names; so what?

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I remember, Indian movies used to have urdu subtitles

you expect movies to follow islamic adab?

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to rename all the Urdu cities of India on Hindi words

you don't know a thing about urdu or hindi or the issue in general; don't generalize it.

certain names were changed because of local and language politics - calcutta became kolkota because the bengalis found it offensive that the name of their capital city was in english; same with chennai; same with bengaluru (the kannada form of bangalore). and others. that has nothing to do with islam or urdu or muslims.

all your other comments are similar - gleaned from headlines and thrown in the wind.

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The Hindus in India are the most blood thirsty nation on earth

they say the same thing about you...

Most likely, those gunmen were never khawarij, but Gujaratis seeking revenge for the rape and killing of their women folk back home in Northern Gujarat.

regardless of who did it, it is a crime and utterly unislamic. this makes the lives of muslims worse in india and in general is an attack on islam. you can read many bulletin boards and forums now spewing abuses on islam because they view this as 'islamic' terrorism.

this has nothing to do with jihad and there is no excuse for anybody who committed these crimes. this is naked terrorism and zulm and should be condemned without any reservation.

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Allah has mercy on the merciful and kind. have mercy on those on earth, Allah will have mercy upon you. those who do not have mercy on others, will not [deserve or] get mercy.

may Allah protect us and give sense to the misguided.

 

[naqshbandijamaati]

it was disgusting and the tragedy is that it will be the indian muslims who will bear the brunt of the backlash; expect the BJP to milk this issue to the full ahead of elections next year.

these people are murderers. the sooner muslims are rid of them the better it will be for all of us and for the name of islam. i think that these bloody wahabi terrorists have done more harm to the name of islam and its image in the past decade --especially since 9/11--than in the rest of history combined as far as the common man is concerned in the non-Muslim world.

i also hope that the people do not have any links with pakistan although it is amusing how as soon as it happened indian media immediately began to blame pakistan without any evidence what so ever! i really hope it does not lead to another indo-pak war.

i think that something has to give: i do not think that muslims can continue to be held hostage by a bunch of lunatics who are the self-imposed spokesmen for the religion and who carry out this terror in islam' s name. sadly these wahabis are actually gaining public support in the muslim world where ppl see conspiracy theories and America's hand everywhere! What will give is that eventually the young gen will become brainwashed by these terrorist party maulvis into thinking this IS real islam and people will begin to leave islam in droves nauzubillah.

sunni maulvis are partially to blame for not doing jack in the past 50 years to engage the youth and leaving the field open to these terrorists; the longer we keep our heads in the sand and not engage with modern issues or the modern world the more attractive wahabi/deobandit type terrorist islam will appear to religiously-inclined youngsters since these ppl.

a wise scholar in the UK said once that if current trends continue people will either become wahabi or they will become sharabi.

Allah help us all!

 

[Abu Fadl]

It was most likely the Indians themselves, the more information that is coming out, the more it shows it was an inside job. It now makes people hate Pakistanis more or gives an excuse to attack.

 

[Ubaid]

wadood,

for the sake of humanity the least you could have done is condemn the inhuman attack on mumbai. i have no argument with you because of obvious reasons. you do not present a case but 'rant' jiss ko urdu mein sathyana kehti hain.

 

[Wadood]

come on wadood, there is a limit.

being widely traveled is something; but to become a spokesman for every people on earth is ridiculous. you must have hardly been to india as a visitor, yet, you have become an expert and a spokesman for muslims in india?

Ophcourse there is a limit. I am well aware of that as I have never claimed nor implicated in any manner that I am the 'spokesman' for Indian Muslims. You have misunderstood. Prove it before you allege.

also, mumbai is used in old literature - i have seen old arabic journals refer to the place as mumbai with a meem. bombay was the anglicized version.

Ophcourse, 'Bombay' is the Anglicized version, everyone knows that, and ophcourse 'Mumbai' was used by 'Hindus' from the Gujarati, Konkan, Sindhi coast, similarly for Mangalore. I am aware of that.

Bombay is what was overwhelmingly adopted by the Muslims of India, in their modern literature.

Let me make it more clearer, there is a general trend by the Hindu nationalists to change all 'Muslim' and 'Anglicized' names in India.

they changed names; so what?

Read and attend a gathering of Vishwa Hindu Parishad, you will understand so what.

you expect movies to follow islamic adab?

Nope, but what I have noticed is a general deterioration of family values that were more common even up to the 80s in India. Fahashi has spread immensely, and the worsening movies in India are a sign of that. Just one sign though. I am sure, people who have known the Indian film industry since its inception by the Muslims in Bombay more than a century ago, will be shamefully hidden in their homes seeing what their purpose for openeing up the industry has become today.

The Indian street is full of fahashi, as compared to the old days. And so are the Muslims there, but far less than the Hindus and Sikhs. This is my point.

you don't know a thing about urdu or hindi or the issue in general; don't generalize it.

I do not know what you are talking about.

certain names were changed because of local and language politics - calcutta became kolkota because the bengalis found it offensive that the name of their capital city was in english; same with chennai; same with bengaluru (the kannada form of bangalore). and others. that has nothing to do with islam or urdu or muslims.

Ophcourse they changed for exactly the reasons you state above. Do you think I do not know this beforehand? you could have asked me. I know why the bengalis changed their city to Kolkata. I know why the Bangladeshis call it that way too. Therefore my point still stands, has not been refuted.

all your other comments are similar - gleaned from headlines and thrown in the wind.

'All' comments? Why generalize as such? There must be some truth in what I say. And secondly, I have not gleaned headlines, I do not have the time. Can you please point out to me, which comments are you talking about exactly. If you believe that would be your waste of time, then please don't comment on my comments.

they say the same thing about you...

You mean about Iranians? Or do you mean about Muslims? Because, as far as I know, the truth is that, the Hindus are the most blood thirsty nation on earth, and the Muslims are infact the opposite, no matter how many hajjajs we have. History is the evidence.

 

[Wadood]

Let me give all of you an incident. I have been attributed with an inaccuracy, that my comments are gleaned from the headlines.

This is a not a gleaned story, it has been stated by somebody to me.

There was a Bohra woman by the name Fatima. She wore that flowery Burka, bohra women wear. She and her husband were walking on the road North of Panchmahal district in north eastern Gujarat State.

On the road, she was attacked by a local BJP Hindu nationalist leading a mob of drunken dalits.

They snatched her burka, tearing it down. Then, they caught of her husband, putting a tire around his neck, and his body, while making him watch them abuse Fatima.

They after finishing with Fatima, on the open road, under the open sky, doused her in petrol and burned her alive.

Then they set the tire on fire, blowing the head of her husband from his body.

This is just a tiny story. I know of hundreds more. These are just for the Muslims. What about the Dalits themselves? Their murders? And the Sikh massacre of 1984? And the Muslim massacres in 1947. And continuiing.

 

[abu Hasan]

any person who has stayed for some years in india will scoff at your suggestions. i too can gather names and opinions on iran, and make a collage that may look informational to someone who has never visited iran, but one who has lived in iran can easily see through the farce.

i think i have an idea about life in india, because i have lived a good part of my life in india.

there is a general trend by the Hindu nationalists

it is nothing but your imagination that is lost in daydreams. name changes, so far, have nothing to do with the communalists. it is all about local politics and you don't seem to understand anything about local politics or the language rivalries.

yes, the thug-geray clan/followers want to change aurangabad (named after aurangazeb; proposed:sambhajinagar) it is partly a communalist agenda, but muslims are least worried about these name-changes. who cares if they want to rename ahmedabad [proposed:karnavati] and dilli/dehli to indraprastha!

also is an international phenomenon and a non-issue. check this list.

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similarly for Mangalore.

mangalore and bangalore are two different cities. it was bangalore that was renamed as bengaluru (local language pronunciation). absolutely NO anti-muslim angle to that. most of the city protested against it, but language-nazis had their way.

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Ophcourse

initially i thought it was deliberate; but now, i think you don't know the spelling: of course.

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aH:

you don't know a thing about urdu or hindi or the issue in general; don't generalize it.

I do not know what you are talking about.

that is what i said: you don't know a thing about the hindi/urdu dispute and its history.

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and the rest of your comments are being fired indiscriminately in all directions. i will duck for cover...

 

[Wadood]

any person who has stayed for some years in india will balk at your suggestions about india. i too can gather names and opinions on iran, and make a collage that may look informational to someone who has never visited iran, but one who has lived in iran can easily see through the farce.

Which suggestions, please point those out to me, and correct me on them, I am only here to learn from Indians, honestly, I am not sarcasting.

Very few Indian Muslims have disagreed with MOST of what I have learned from they themselves. I really do not know what you are talking about, and pointing towards. Why talk in the air, tell me what you disagree on, I will ask you the reason why, you will answer with reason (if you want to) and then I will change my opinion, afterall, I am not an Indian.

I am sorry, but this accusation that I am making a collage is really not true, honestly. I am a Muslim, I am not lying.

i think i have an idea about life in india, because i have lived a good part of my life in india.

I know you are an Indian, I am not denying that.

it is nothing but your imagination that is lost in daydreams.

What exactly? If you are referring to my 'theory' about name changes, then you will be dissapointed to hear that I have heard this from none other than TRUSTWORTHY Indians, and not a few of them, but quite too many of them. Also from Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

name changes, so far, have nothing to do with the communalists. it is all about local politics and you don't seem to understand anything about local politics or the language rivalries.

I have not come to the topic of local rivalries and politics in India. It is my favourite subject related to India, and it is some other topic. I can begin a discussion on that if you want. I have all my information from local dwelling Indian villagers, not from gleaming over headlines. And, of course

mangalore and bangalore are two different cities.

I know Mangalore is a different city. My favourite flight agent is a Hindu lady from Mangalore with an amaizing family. While one of my friends, in my class, is from Bangalore, and he is a Hindu by the name Chiragh.

However, I do not know the case of the name change of Bangalore, honestly. I have to ask my friends from there about that. But I do not know which headlines to gleam over for that, as honestly I havn't in the past.

Ophcourse-of course

This is a word that I frequently mis-spell, besides so many people correcting me on it, I still mis-spell, do you want to hang me over that?

I was corrected recently on the same spelling by my convert friend at university, just two weeks ago, and yikes I mis-spelt the word again. Sorry

that is what i said: you don't know a thing about the hindi/urdu dispute and its history.

I honestly do not know what you are talking about.

and the rest of your comments are being fired indiscriminately in all directions. i will duck for cover...

What does the above mean? I do not know too. All I have done in this thread, is to suggest some reasons for the troubles of the Muslims in India, info I got from none-other than Indians themselves, and also their neighbouring friends, the Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis.

Looks like its time to leave this small overcrowded corner of the world, and research on China perhaps, which is much open minded and kind hearted in correcting someone else rather than shutting their mouth.

 

[sherkhan]

Most likely, those gunmen were never khawarij, but Gujaratis seeking revenge for the rape and killing of their women folk back home in Northern Gujarat.

1. If the terrorists were indeed Gujaratis avenging Gujarat genocide, why did they target Europeans and jews? The targets were specifically chosen for the high concentration of tourists. Why kill non-hindus, who weren’t involved in the genocide?

This operation has clear hallmark of al-Qaida (fronted by renegade outfits like Lashkar etc.). I don't think there is any direct complicity of state (i.e. Pak), since that would amount to harakiri.

2. Why was Mumbai the target and not Ahmedabad or any other city in Gujarat?

3. Why did this come after 7 years of the genocide (clear case of striking when the iron has gone cold!). If the gujaratis were bent on vengeance, then they would have done this long back.

 

[Wadood]

1. If the terrorists were indeed Gujaratis avenging Gujarat genocide, why did they target Europeans and jews? The targets were specifically chosen for the high concentration of tourists. Why kill non-hindus, who weren’t involved in the genocide?

This operation has clear hallmark of al-Qaida (fronted by renegade outfits like Lashkar etc.). I don't think there is any direct complicity of state (i.e. Pak), since that would amount to harakiri.

2. Why was Mumbai the target and not Ahmedabad or any other city in Gujarat?

3. Why did this come after 7 years of the genocide (clear case of striking when the iron has gone cold!). If the gujaratis were bent on vengeance, then they would have done this long back.

Yes, thats right. I am basing a Gujarati/Kashmiri connection because by chance, this time, I happened to have gleamed over a few headlines inside trusted Indian press, that quoted one of the killers say openly that he was avenging the rape and killing of his mother and sister, and I do not know if he said 'in kashmir' or 'in Gujarat'. And by the sounds of it, it most likely seemed Gujarat.

Inside Ahmedabad, the few Muslim concentration camps are labelled as 'mini-Pakistans' and this I too got by gleaming over the headlines.

As for the attack on non-Hindus, including the 6 jews at the Jewish centre, and the attack on the famous hotel, it seems most likely, that the blame is being put on the west joining forces with hindus in India.

And so, as you say, the terror groups you mention are clearly complicit. Its like the the real khawarij, inside pakistan, targeting the hotels in Islamabad, to damage the reputation, tourism, econonmy of Pakistan, and at the same time, destroy western interests in Pakistan, by killing the foreigners in those hotels. I recall Sidi Asif placing a story.

However, it seems most likely that the Pakistani secret services are involved in the Bombay hovoc.

Bombay was the target because it is by far, the financial hub of much of India, no matter how much Bangalore, or Hyderabad have developed. Much of the Gujarati industries and labour markets including gold are linked to that city and the immense networks of banks and comapnies being one of the main ports of the country.

They wanted to create fear and destroy the peaceful life of the city. I still believe, that Bombay is a much safer city than others, and it is a much more peaceful city, in terms of most Hindus and Muslims there live together peacefully.

The city is more about education, business, trade, multi-culturalism and India's connection to the outside world. What a better place to target and damage India. This is what those trouble makers thought.

This is all a very complicated situation.

 

[Wadood]

The cook at the Jewish centre in the Bombay killing spree is a Muslim. His name is Zakir Husain, and he was not hurt by the militants

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7758930.stm