SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
Bismillah...
That was before the clear harms of it were not known and it was thought that it was simillar to eating raw garlic i.e. it simply gave you a bad odour. However, its harm is clear now, whetever is harms with little doubt is Haram.
Was-Salam
That was before the clear harms of it were not known and it was thought that it was simillar to eating raw garlic i.e. it simply gave you a bad odour. However, its harm is clear now, whetever is harms with little doubt is Haram.
Was-Salam
SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
Bismillah...
As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullah...
Do you disgaree with the principle that what is certain to harm one is Haram?
So what if it makes millions of Muslims sinners. Zina, Ghibah, Namimah and whatever else has the exact same effect.
Listen to this: http://hemmah.net/Speeche.aspx?SectionID=2&RefID=510
Was-Salam
As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullah...
Do you disgaree with the principle that what is certain to harm one is Haram?
So what if it makes millions of Muslims sinners. Zina, Ghibah, Namimah and whatever else has the exact same effect.
Listen to this: http://hemmah.net/Speeche.aspx?SectionID=2&RefID=510
Was-Salam
naqshbandijamaati
sunniport user
The Hanafi position is it is makruh.
abu Hasan
Administrator
so it was.
for those interested in principles of fiqh, this can serve as a good example of how rulings change with time. if someone asks me nowadays, i tell them that i believe it is haram to smoke.
but as suleiman has noted, it should be ruled haram due to the proven ill-effects of smoking. moreover, the fuqaha who considered it makruh in the previous century were not aware of cigarettes and the immense harm.
setting up a hookah and enjoying it once a while in the evening (as was the case with 13-14th century scholars) is not the same as walking chimneys who are turning their lives to ashes and dust.
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here is a video sampling the tar from 400 cigarettes can cause (a little over-the-top, but you get the idea). 10 cigarettes a day, or a pack-a-day would give you all that tar in just one year!
Allah ta'ala knows best.
SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
Shukran Jazilan, Abu Hasan! Allahumma-rzuqna al-`Afw wal-`Afiyah!
The link that I posted to is excellent - a Jumu`ah Khutbah of Habib Husayn on "Health and the Well-being of the Body" and it condemns those who smoke, drink, take drugs, wal-`Iyadhu Billahi Tabaraka wa Ta`ala.
It surprises me that people take evidence from western scientists on a host of things from chemistry to psychology, yet they declare smoking Makruh.
The link that I posted to is excellent - a Jumu`ah Khutbah of Habib Husayn on "Health and the Well-being of the Body" and it condemns those who smoke, drink, take drugs, wal-`Iyadhu Billahi Tabaraka wa Ta`ala.
It surprises me that people take evidence from western scientists on a host of things from chemistry to psychology, yet they declare smoking Makruh.
the mutlaqan blanket haram fatwa is given by impulsive wahabis ... as far as i know the Sunni's fatwa is makruh (not sure about tanzihi or tahrimi) and that too isn't for the one off or two off occasional smoking, it is haram only for people for whom the harm is certified, like a heart patient or an asthmatic
the "whatever harms" and "its harms have been proven" reasoning can't be applied so simplistically... otherwise it would apply to all cheeseburger addicts, all coke addicts (the drink in the red can), pretty much all of us exorbitantly large amounts of red chilli powder and garam masala consuming desis, pretty much all of us samosa and pakoda munching desis, half the Muslim world which eats sweets and halwas by the kilo in one sitting, not to mention our exorbitant consumption of desi ghee
btw, they have done studies in Lahore in regards to excessive chilli and masala consumption, and while it may not cause cancer, it renders many folk unable to conceive and susceptible to ulcers, amongst other disorders
this issue isn't as black and white as the anti-smoking lobby would have you believe... that said, i'm not an advocate for promoting tobacco consumption either... that comment to faqeerkhan was in a figure of speech format
SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
Just because Wahhabis say something, does not mean it is Batil.
SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
One of my teachers said that if such things e.g. excessive food consumption harms ones body, and is proven, then it will be Haram. Eating and Drinking have different Ahkam depending on your situation. It is Fard when one is starving, Haram when clearly harmful etc
chisti-raza
sunniport user
Sorry but I have to ask. So, when will excessive food consumption be haram (is this a blanket prohibition)? Who will it be haram for and who will it be halal for?SuleimanalMuslim said:
As for this specific ruling changing with time [i don't deny that rulings do change with time], can someone please explain to me the reason for it being declared makruh in the first place? What were the reasons for it being makruh?
This is an interesting topic to discuss. Can the mods please move this into its own thread?
SuleimanalMuslim
sunniport user
Sorry, I didn't mean that in an absolute manner (Mutalaqan). Rather, Sidi AbdalQadir said that it was proven to be harmful and questioned whether I would apply the principle mentioned. Therefore I said that if it is proven to be harmful and one is certain of this, it is Haram.
I think it was Makruh in the first place since it was likened to eating raw garlic, i.e. it left a bad odour in ones mouth. The ruling for the latter was Makruh, so smoking was thought to be the same. However, when looking at the new evidence, the smell is one of your least worries
I think it was Makruh in the first place since it was likened to eating raw garlic, i.e. it left a bad odour in ones mouth. The ruling for the latter was Makruh, so smoking was thought to be the same. However, when looking at the new evidence, the smell is one of your least worries
chisti-raza
sunniport user
you are passionately anti-tobacco
ok, to understand you correctly, the ruling of excessive eating being declared haram would be conditional.
your answer is logical for the reason of it being makruh (if that was the reason) and now that new evidence has come to light the ruling should be reviewed.
Can we get this into a new thread please?
ok, to understand you correctly, the ruling of excessive eating being declared haram would be conditional.
your answer is logical for the reason of it being makruh (if that was the reason) and now that new evidence has come to light the ruling should be reviewed.
Can we get this into a new thread please?
I meant to say that they are not comprehensive. but that video Abu Hasan posted was a heartbreak.
chisti-raza
sunniport user
there are alot of issues that can come out of blanket prohibition.
Do the earnings of those who sell this now become haram?
A person is in the state of wudhu, he smokes and performs his salah. Is his salah valid or will this (if it is haram) now invalidate his salah?
A good number of imams (of masjids) do this, what now of the congregations?
I don't smoke nor do I allow it in my home and I was of the view that it was haram (absolute prohibition) but not anymore. I feel that there are just too many variables attached to it for absolute prohibition (haram).
Do the earnings of those who sell this now become haram?
A person is in the state of wudhu, he smokes and performs his salah. Is his salah valid or will this (if it is haram) now invalidate his salah?
A good number of imams (of masjids) do this, what now of the congregations?
I don't smoke nor do I allow it in my home and I was of the view that it was haram (absolute prohibition) but not anymore. I feel that there are just too many variables attached to it for absolute prohibition (haram).
chisti-raza
sunniport user
at this moment in time, I'm of the view that it is prohibitively disliked and abhorred. I'm not closed on this though
abu Hasan
Administrator
the harm of smoking is documented and well-known. it is the leading cause of lung cancer; one of the main causes of mouth cancer. a major factor contributing to heart disease.
this causes direct injury and not something which merely has the potential to lead to injury.
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eating lots of masala and drinking lots of coke will not give you cancer. smoking is addictive but drinking coke is not. you may find some who are addicted to carbonated drinks, but that is generally not the case. many people start smoking as a fad and just because it is 'hip' and 'cool' (usually when they are young) and thereafter get hooked to it.
it is because of these reasons, smoking should be banned outright and ruled as Haram. i used to feel strongly even in the past, but withheld because the fuqaha had ruled it makruh; but i read a book by an eminent shaykh and that has caused me to lean towards the present viewpoint.
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i have seen relatives who have suffered from lung cancer, blocked arteries and angioplasty and dozens of ailments - all linked to smoking. it is one way to discourage smoking in the newer generation, just like nabiz - where fatwa is given according to imam muHammad's opinion.
smokers are generally selfish (about smoking) and are thinking only about themselves - they get restless, irritable and at times abusive when they haven't had a smoke for some time. they do not care if you have an allergy or something and will blissfully blow smoke in your face. some idiots do not even have the courtesy to not smoke or stop smoking when children or pregnant women are around...or if someone is fasting. other morons will smoke in closed spaces like lifts and even in entrances to hospitals and clinics.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
this causes direct injury and not something which merely has the potential to lead to injury.
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eating lots of masala and drinking lots of coke will not give you cancer. smoking is addictive but drinking coke is not. you may find some who are addicted to carbonated drinks, but that is generally not the case. many people start smoking as a fad and just because it is 'hip' and 'cool' (usually when they are young) and thereafter get hooked to it.
it is because of these reasons, smoking should be banned outright and ruled as Haram. i used to feel strongly even in the past, but withheld because the fuqaha had ruled it makruh; but i read a book by an eminent shaykh and that has caused me to lean towards the present viewpoint.
---
i have seen relatives who have suffered from lung cancer, blocked arteries and angioplasty and dozens of ailments - all linked to smoking. it is one way to discourage smoking in the newer generation, just like nabiz - where fatwa is given according to imam muHammad's opinion.
smokers are generally selfish (about smoking) and are thinking only about themselves - they get restless, irritable and at times abusive when they haven't had a smoke for some time. they do not care if you have an allergy or something and will blissfully blow smoke in your face. some idiots do not even have the courtesy to not smoke or stop smoking when children or pregnant women are around...or if someone is fasting. other morons will smoke in closed spaces like lifts and even in entrances to hospitals and clinics.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
