Afzaliyat and Kufr

A

Abu Fadl

Banned
I was watching this speech below and found an interesting development in the afzaliat debate.

It is being asserted that anyone who does not accept the afzaliat of Abu Bakr Siddique has committed kufr. This declaration (that was declared in Haqq Chaar yaar Conference of Irfan Shah Mashaddi Saheb) has been put out in two newspapers: Nawa-e-Waqt and the Ausaf (on separate dates).

Now I have followed the arguments of people on both sides of the divide but those that are very strict of the afzaliat issue (such as Ala Hazrat) never said it's kufr so have these people not gone too extreme?

Here it is:

http://www.yanabi.com/index.php?/vi...-from-a-non-issue-to-article-of-faith-Part-I/
 
This video has been commented upon on Sunnaforum

Abu Fadl all the Imams of Ahlusunnah are strict on the Afzaliyyat issue. Its not just 'AlaHazrat. We have already explained it to you on Sunniport for years. How can you come back and then deny so openly? It is a basic, foundational 'Aqida of Sunni Muslims, once again.

Can you point at which minute can I find that development, as honestly, 1 hour is too much.
 
The point is that Ala Hazrat R.A. nor anyone else has ever said it's kufr but this group is saying it's kufr in their conferences, and the declaration has been published twice in newspapers.

Considering many on the forum hotly engage in this topic on a daily basis I'm surprised they have not responded, in fact I thought it would have been brought up on here when the news came out?
 
Place the newspaper cutting or link to website on here so we can see it and analyse it. Then the U'lama who are quoted can be contacted to confirm the report that they do unwarranted takfir.
 
kattarsunni said:
Place the newspaper cutting or link to website on here so we can see it and analyse it. Then the U'lama who are quoted can be contacted to confirm the report that they do unwarranted takfir.
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actually the link here is from 13th september and it was also printed 10 days later in nawai waqt, london on 23 september. the text is below then the link:

حضرت صدیق اکبر خلیفہ اول کی افضلیت قرآن و حدیث میں ثابت ہے ۔ جن کی افضلیت کا انکار کرنے والا کفر کا مرتکب ہو جاتا

http://www.dailyausaf.com/news/id/65820/



even alahazrat says in his fatawa that: ahle tehqiq ke nazdeeq khilafat e rashida ka inkaar karne wala bhi kafir nahin hai
according to people of tehqiq even the denier of khilafat rashida is not kafir.

yet we have people are committing kufr for tafzil!
 
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A Raja Faryad Khan is the reporter. The U'lama who were present and organised this gathering should be contacted to see if the report is accurate.

If it was recorded maybe someone can provide a link and point that particular statement out. Because the quoted passage also has a mention of the ijma' on the khilafah also:

اور مفسرین کے اس اجماع سے بھی اتفاق کیا ہے کہ حضرت صدیق اکبر خلیفہ اول کی افضلیت قرآن و حدیث میں ثابت ہے ۔ جن کی افضلیت کا انکار کرنے والا کفر کا مرتکب ہو جاتا ہے اور حضور سرورکونینۖ کی اس حدیث کو بھی پیش کیا ۔

The reporter, which is the most likely case, must have mixed a statement up. A recording would make the issue more poignant and then the a'lim/u'lama who is/are purported to have said this can be contacted.
 
no it says ijma on the afzaliyyat of the first caliph hazrat siddiq akbar(r).

they had ten days to correct it but it was stated again in another news paper. now, they should print in the same two news paper that it was their error, if that is the case. what about thousands that read and are now considering it kufr?

my guess is that it is not beyond their takfiri mind to have done so.
 
Shah Jee you are saying the same in your speech on Tafzil. When are your other two parts coming out?

I thought both you and abu fazl was also going to refute Pir Saqib as your Pir said so it is against the law you have not so far
 
Ghulam said:
Shah Jee you are saying the same in your speech on Tafzil. When are your other two parts coming out?

I thought both you and abu fazl was also going to refute Pir Saqib as your Pir said so it is against the law you have not so far
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jab baraday baat kar rahey hon to bachon ko nahin bolna chahiye.
 
Shah Jee answer Kattars questions no point trying to divert abu Hasan. What next you going to say to kattar tuh kaparai karai jai lai wai nee?
 
It's a declaration been put in the newspaper, after 10 days they put it in another newspaper (with different editors).

The statement has not been retracted or disowned in any way at all since.

...gulam, shut up if you cannot address a serious matter.
 
GG said:
and to add to that here is one from our very own brother:
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in response to my statement some time ago:
to reject a SaHiH hadith whose chain is rigorously authenticated, is kufr
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what is your position concerning my statement above? are you for, or against it? if you think that my statement is a blunder, go ahead and prove it. and if you agree with me, then what is the point of citing it here? if you cannot answer these questions, then you better shut up.

please do not use the politician's device - be ambiguous and keep options open to jump to the other ship when it is convenient; tahir jhangvi does it unknowing that there is many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip. you can probably rework a samuel johnson quote for that matter.

real men do not fear to take a stand and state it like men. i encourage you to be a man.

wa billahi't tawfiq.
 
Oh là là!! someone has touched a raw nerve somewhere. you are soooooooo wound up ghulam e zidd. drink some ruh afza with some crushed ice, it will cool you down. I really feel sorry for you my dear brother. try using your 'own' brain for a day. write something. all you are is clips. clip this, clip that, exposed, breaking news, etc.

remember brother, dushman maray te khusi na karye, sajna wee marjana. I have decided that I will neither address nor reply to any of your things because sometimes x is a matter of facticity. Khuda Hafiz and Ya Ali madad! Haider! Haider! Haider!
 
the last post was for ghulam so please have no ambiguities about that.

for AH:

to reject a SaHiH hadith whose chain is rigorously authenticated, is
kufr
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that is not correct. it is wrong and aginst established usul.
 
Okay,

to reject a SaHiH hadith whose chain is rigorously authenticated, is
kufr
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a sahih hadith is khabr al-wahid. and khabr al-wahid is dhanni according to all the usulis. how can denial of dhanni be kufr.

al-mustasfa: خبر الواحد لا يفيد العلم
 
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