Mufakkir responds to Syed Irfan

[abu Hasan]

Did you ever wonder why Bill Gates and Jobs, even though they dropped out of college, still surrounded themselves with graduates?

who asked you to drop out of college? the question was that geniuses and achievers will not become un-geniuses or un-achievers without a college degree or dropping out of school.

'I fear the day when the West fights us with the Atom bomb and my brothers challenge them to fight with the sword. Saying to them, come fight us with the sword for this is how our forefathers fought!.'

it is unethical, inhuman and cruel to use nukes. just because the west deems it right and uses it should not make us lose our moral compass.

sub'HanAllah! RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam forbade us to kill non-combatants even with swords and spears.

nukes should be outlawed and muslims SHOULD (they are anyway, whether they have a choice or not) campaign against it. RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: 'he who does not have mercy will not get mercy'

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RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam forbade you to punish others by fire. RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam forbade you to oppress; and oppression is darkness on the day of Judgement. RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam forbade you to follow the fashion of Jews and Christians; this, in actions contrary to Islamic values. Wouldst you follow them in their merciless killing?

wa billahi't tawfiq.

 

[chisti-raza]

who asked you to drop out of college?

lol. I didn't.

My point was that even though these rare breed of geniuses did not need a college degree or a formal qualification they did need people with essential skills to help translate their vision into reality.

it is unethical, inhuman and cruel to use nukes. just because the west deems it right and uses it should not make us lose our moral compass.

You are looking at it too literally brother. The mawlana was making a very profound point.

 

[Unbeknown]

Is'nt there a Hadith about how the muslims will face the armies of Dajjal ? I think it's something like they'll go on saying 'Allah u Akbar' and the enemy files will go on succumbing (I'm not sure if this is a hadith at all). But there are hadiths about muslim armies from Madinah just before the appearance of Dajjal. I don't know their Shuruh.

The point is: if those who study worldly sciences are negligent of their religious obligations and their basic aim in perusing the knowledge is self-glorification then we can only hope for what we're getting already.

" Then it is you who began slaying each other and you drive out a group of your people from their homeland – providing support against them (to their opponents) through sin and injustice; and if they come to you as captives you redeem them, whereas their expulsion itself is forbidden to you; so do you believe in some of Allah’s commands and disbelieve in some? So what is the reward of those who do so, except disgrace in this world? And on the Day of Resurrection they will be assigned to the most grievous punishment; and Allah is not unaware of your deeds. "


In the other scenario we have:

Narrated Uqbah ibn Amir:

I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: Allah, Most High, will cause three persons to enter Paradise for one arrow: the maker when he has a good motive in making it, the one who shoots it, and the one who hands it; so shoot and ride, but your shooting is dearer to me than your riding. Everything with which a man amuses himself is vain except three (things): a man's training of his horse, his playing with his wife, and his shooting with his bow and arrow. If anyone abandons archery after becoming an adept through distaste for it, it is a blessing he has abandoned; or he said: for which he has been ungrateful.

Narrated AbuUmamah:The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said:

He who does not join the warlike expedition (jihad), or equip, or looks well after a warrior's family when he is away, will be smitten by Allah with a sudden calamity.

Narrated Anas ibn Malik:The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said:

Use your property, your persons any your tongues in striving against the polytheists.

Is it possible that Allah will better the lot of the ummah and give its people the tawfiq to innovate and excel while a large portion of them are fasiq or heretics, abandon salah, deal unscrupously and wish for such freedom and enjoyment as the kuffar suffer?

Was't the forgetting of one sunnah (of miswak) an impediment to the sucess of an expedition ? And how miraculous was the victory when it was attended to? The success of Muslims is subject to their obedience to the Almighty, of Kuffar is not.


" O People who Believe! Shall I show you a trade that can save you from the painful punishment?

Have faith in Allah and His Noble Messenger, and fight in Allah’s cause with your wealth and your lives; this is better for you, if you understand.

He will forgive you your sins and admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow, and superb dwellings in everlasting Gardens of Eden; this is the greatest success.

And He will give you another favour, which is dear to you – the help from Allah and an imminent victory; and O dear Prophet (Mohammed – peace and blessings be upon him), give glad tidings to the Muslims. "

Wallahua'lam.

 

[Unbeknown]

Is science REALLY the reason for the West's political and financial supremacy? And the lack of it the reason for the orient's backwardness?

I am no visionary or philosopher but am asking it because of THAT article on livingislam.org (which I'm sure most of you've read. can't find it now). I thought it was profound.

Got it.

Jamaluddin was interested in Western science, [though] he had very little knowledge [of it], and he was also very much interested in the revival of the Islamic world. The character of [Jamaluddin's] argument is absolutely crucial to the understanding of what I am talking about. He came up with view that science per se is what has made the West powerful and great. And the West is dominating over the Islamic world because it has this power in its pocket. And since this is being allowed, this is being done, there must be something very positive about this science, that science itself is good, because it gives power. This was the first part of his argument. Secondly, [he argued], science came from the Islamic world originally and therefore Islamic science is really responsible for the West's possession of science and the West's domination of the Islamic world itself. And therefore, all the muslims have to do is to reclaim this science for themselves in order to reach the glories of their past and become a powerful and great civilization. This is the gist of a rather extensive argument given by Jamaluddin Afghani which equates, in fact, Islamic science with Western science. Secondly, it equates the power of the West with the power of science. To some extent this is true, but not completely so. And thirdly, it believes that acquisition of this science of the West [by the muslims] is, no more no less, than the muslims claiming their own property which has somehow been taken over by another continent and [the muslims] just want back what is really their own. Now this point of view had a great deal of impact upon the Islamic world, upon the modernist circles, and in order to understand what is going on in the Islamic world today it is important to see what consequences flow from this.

 

[naqshbandijamaati]

thanks for the article by SH Nasr. It is most interesting. Unfortunately some people will reject anything** he says because he is modernist/Ismaili/Shia/perrenialist/sullah-kulli*

* delete as appropriate.

** disclaimer: i am not saying follow him in aqidah issues but on the history of islamic science and philosophy and its interaction with the west he is an expert.

 

[naqshbandijamaati]

btw, i don't agree with everything he says in that article. I am not convinced if Muslims can develop a separate Islamic Science--not in the way he means it --which is different from Western science unless in the limited sense of saying, "OK we will not develop this technology further due to ethical considerations which may oppose Shariah" but that is ethics and not science anyway. I think that the scientists he refers to--people like Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, and Umar Khayyam and al-Farabi etc. etc. were generally not considered orthodox Muslims (Sunnis) by many scholars and are still not considered as role-models by many of our ulema. Indeed, people like Ibn Sina were considered apostates by some...

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As an aside I would highly recommend SH Nasr's A Young Muslim's Guide to the Modern World for any Muslim.

 

[naqshbandijamaati]

note to admin/mods: this topic has veered off course from the title. perhaps you can move the last few posts into a new thread called "islam and science"?

 

[naqshbandijamaati]

brother Unbeknown you missed the most important point in the article:

Of course, Assad Ullah and other swordsmiths would have had no idea that they were creating carbon nanotubes. “They just did tremendous empirical work,” Dr. Paufler said. “They optimized the procedure over centuries in order to get the most strength.”

that is not the same thing as the discovery and identification of carbon nanotubes in the lab deliberately as a heretofore unknown form of carbon (C60). If you spot the difference you will get to the heart of my argument which I have been (unsuccessfully) trying to make.

Ditto, apeing the outer appearance of Westerners doesn't make one a scientist. It is a way of thinking. That was Ataturk's mistake too.

 

[Wadood]

As an aside I would highly recommend SH Nasr's A Young Muslim's Guide to the Modern World for any Muslim.

I would advise against it brother. There is far more harm in SH Nasr's books. This is because he twists everything. He is a faker himself. He claims to be a Shadhili shaykh, while being a rafiDi + modernist + perennialist

 

[Unbeknown]

brother Unbeknown you missed the most important point in the article:



that is not the same thing as the discovery and identification of carbon nanotubes in the lab deliberately as a heretofore unknown form of carbon (C60). If you spot the difference you will get to the heart of my argument which I have been (unsuccessfully) trying to make.

On the contrary I had posted the link for that very statement

I work it out like this:

1) It is Allah who gives victory and defeat.

2) HE can give it with (for e.x weapons) or without (for e.x Angels) tangible means.

3) Now, HE may give the inventor of the weapons either detailed knowledge of its structure so that he aims at synthesizing it OR HE may give abstract knowledge of just the method of synthesis (which one HE chooses to give is HIS Mashiyyat).

4) So long as the output is achieved AND it can be replicated the means may not be of much import.

5) So long as muslims remained obedient to HIM, HE allowed them victory even if the means included undetected nanotubes, when muslims became slack then all the oil wealth in the world couldn't do much good.

Consider a few examples here for point 4:

Newtonian mechanics and General Relativity differ in their details but for macroscopic objects Newton's is a sufficient approximation. (Unless of-course you want to be utterly exact about Mercury's orbit.)

Then you must know about the Single Slit experiment for electrons: So are electrons particles or matter waves? Again, the difference is trivial so far as applications are concerned: Applications exist which substantiate both behaviours.

It is a way of thinking.

Indeed. That is what Carl Sagan says in "Broca's Brains". But what Nasr is pointing to (perhaps) is that there's another way, a better one. Cause fasiq and kafir scientists may get spurred by motives quite different from that of, say, a pious muslim scientist. The ally of the former is Lucifer of the latter is Allah!

" And the party-of-Allah IS the victorious "​

And AlaHadhrat certainly belongs to the latter. So if he advocates a geo-centric universe ( Geo-System, if you like) then I for one don't think it's wise to summarily dismiss it as mere uneducated ramblings of a Mulla.

When I first read about aqida issues on marifah-forums I was just flabbergasted: I found Relativity in the 8th C.E ! One without math. Hidayah I called it. Consider this.

But even if you insist that the modern way of thinking is what we need then I would like to draw your attention to this:

Allah is the creator of all that exists - which includes our actions and thoughts (for e.x see here)

So being heedless of his commandments may not be the best way to ask him to inspire us with this 'way of thinking'. And unless HE wishes, well:

"Thou shalt not will except as Allah wills"​

Wallahua'lam.

 

[Unbeknown]

Please read the comments relating to earth's motion at the first link above.