ya sadati, la tub'idu!
- Thread starter SuleimanalMuslim
- Start date
Qasim Hanafi Ridwi
Veteran
Subhaan Allah it reminds me of my days in Cairo Egypt the beautiful nasheeds that were recited at the shrines of the great Awliyaa rahimahumullahu Tabaarak wa Ta'ala.
ma sha Allah
ma sha Allah
SuleimanalMuslim
Veteran
Allah reward you, sayyidi Qasim Ridawi for your comment.
Just as a quick appology for getting the title wrong: it's tab'udi, not tub'idu! I seriously need to brush up my grammar.
Just as a quick appology for getting the title wrong: it's tab'udi, not tub'idu! I seriously need to brush up my grammar.
Oowais Qassim Ali
Well-Known Member
Was Shaykh Sālih Al Ja'fari a sunni?
Asking because of Al azhar's bad reputation
Asking because of Al azhar's bad reputation
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Sunni By Nature
Active Member
Shaykh Salih al-Ja’fari al-Sudani al-Hussayni was the Imam of Ahl al-Sunnah in his time and the most revered and authoritative figure at al-Azhar Sharif. He was among the senior ‘Arifin and lovers of the Prophet ﷺ, endowed with spiritual states (ahwal) and karamat (miracles). It is well known that he would frequently see the Prophet ﷺ both in wakefulness and in dreams.
Some of his famous poems that have become widespread:
English biography of the Shaykh:
More about the life of Shaykh Salih:
Shaykh Salih's poems and his books undoubtedly bear hallmark of his profound reverence for the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). His detailed biography can be found here: https://www.imamghazali.org/resources/shaykh-salih-al-jafari-biography
Couple of weeks back, I discovered that Shaykh Salih al-Ja'fari was follower of Idrisiyyah order.
Wikipedia says the following about Idrisiyya tariqa (or tariqa Muhammadiyya):
"it rejects following any of the four schools of Islamic jurisprudence (taqlid), adopting the same methodology as Ismail Dehlavi, who remarked that the agenda of the new order known as Tariqa Muhammadiyya was to purify Islam and reject what they deemed to be bid'ah or shirk"
"The order has a great deal of overlap with the Deobandis and Ahl al-Hadith of India, but is opposed to the Wahhabi belief of affirming corporeality for God."
"Unsurprisingly, the Idrisiyya has also been opposed by Barelvis, who see their methodology as being heretical, and similar to Deobandis and Ahl al-Hadith."
If the Wiki article's claims above are true, then I'm not sure what to make of Shaykh Salih's affiliations (unless he completely broke free of Idrisiyya tariqa). For sure, he was a follower of Maliki madhab (and not a la madhabiyya). It will be interesting to know if Shaykh Salih also openly refuted wahhabis/heretics.
I'm not casting aspersion on Shaykh Salih, but I'm keen to know the actual facts.
غلام رسول
Active Member
I’m not sure where you managed to get the idea that the Idrisiyyah Tariqah has any affiliation with the Deobandis or Wahhabis, unless you have the so-called ‘Idrisi’ silsila of the Deobandi Pir Amin in mind. I’m assuming that is what the Wikipedia article is based on.
The true Idrisiyyah Tariqah has its origin in Sayyid Ahmad bin Idris رحمه الله, who was a Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Wahhab al-Tazi رحمه الله, who was a Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Dabbagh رحمه الله.
Shaykh Salih al-Ja’fari was the Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Aali رحمه الله who was the son of Sayyid Ahmad bin Idris رحمه الله.
There is no connection between both the Idrisiyyah and Ja’fariyyah, and any misguided sects.
The Shaykh was Maliki in Madhab, Ash’ari in Maslak, and Idrisi in Tariqah, He was also a Husayni Sayyid. He later formed his own Tariqah known as the Ja’fariyyah. That is not to say that he “completely broke free of the Idrisiyyah Tariqah” as you put it, rather the Shaykh continued to adhere to the Tariqah of his noble Masha’ikh, whilst also incorporating forms of Awrad and Salawat compiled by himself into the framework of his Tariqah. In this way, the new Ja’fari Nisbah was formed.
In future, when you have questions of this nature please do not resort to Wikipedia as a source of information.
The true Idrisiyyah Tariqah has its origin in Sayyid Ahmad bin Idris رحمه الله, who was a Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Wahhab al-Tazi رحمه الله, who was a Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Aziz al-Dabbagh رحمه الله.
Shaykh Salih al-Ja’fari was the Murid of Shaykh Abd al-Aali رحمه الله who was the son of Sayyid Ahmad bin Idris رحمه الله.
There is no connection between both the Idrisiyyah and Ja’fariyyah, and any misguided sects.
The Shaykh was Maliki in Madhab, Ash’ari in Maslak, and Idrisi in Tariqah, He was also a Husayni Sayyid. He later formed his own Tariqah known as the Ja’fariyyah. That is not to say that he “completely broke free of the Idrisiyyah Tariqah” as you put it, rather the Shaykh continued to adhere to the Tariqah of his noble Masha’ikh, whilst also incorporating forms of Awrad and Salawat compiled by himself into the framework of his Tariqah. In this way, the new Ja’fari Nisbah was formed.
In future, when you have questions of this nature please do not resort to Wikipedia as a source of information.
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Thanks for correcting me. The wiki article was very odd considering that Idrisiyyah tariqa is maghribi, while deobandi, ahl al-hadith, Ismail Dehlavi, and even Barelvis are too far removed to have any similarities/associations or opinion on it. Hence I brought it up.
For sure, that wiki article (which I referenced) clearly attributes that Idrisiyyah was founded by Shaykh Ahmad Idris al-Fasi and that Jafariyya was an offshoot of it.
May be this article was created by bot scraping web and combining/confusing information on true Idrisiyya with the deviant path founded by Amin Multani.
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Ashari Matuiridi
Active Member
If you dig a bit deeper the claim is more or less that Ahmed ibn Idris al fasi had wahhabi inclinations in opposing istigatha and bidah. Just check the references and the citations and you might find something interesting.
Interestingly his life coincides with the wahhabi era as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimane_of_Morocco
During year 1792 Morrocco is said to have been ruled by a wahhabi leaning sultan as well. Make whatever you wish of it... but Ala Hazrat and the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah have always been staunch sunnis and opposing wahhabis , so that no one could make any claim of them ever having Wahhabi tendencies.
Another interesting thing is the case of Muhammad Hayah al sindhi and the likes of ibrahim al kurani, their teachers and views and how certain movements came about, think of the Kadizadeli during the ottoman era for instance.
This same ibrahim al kurani is said to be the murshid of the jahriyya naqshbandis in China through Ma Mingxin(Mohammed Emin) , who were opposed to the khufiyya. They had violent clashes amongst eachother.
See pg 85 onwards
https://archive.org/details/oapen-20.500.12657-75790/page/84/mode/1up
Perhaps Wahhabism was not invented overnight and the teaching of ibn taymiyyah were not fully buried prior to Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab...
The interesting thing about history is seeing what event and circumstances lead to the present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadizadeli
Focus more on the references and not so much on the wikipedia article itself. Just gives more of an insight into what the environment was like at the time and where the final domino fell that gave birth to wahabbism and its offshoots. At least from there on you can actually make some sense of the wikipedia articles...
Then there was also the conflict between the Qadiriyya shuyookh in Somalia against the Salihiyya.
See :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowlana_Abd_al-Rahman_Nurow
Said to be a diciple of Ahmed ibn Idris Al fasi..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muḥammad_ibn_'Abdallāh_Hassan
Said to be a disciple/student of the former.
Under the 'The Dervish War'
I found this of interest:
Fight against the Qadiriyya
Despite leaving Berbera after being rebuked by the leading Sheikhs of the rival Qadiriyya school the enmity did not end. Heated poems would be exchanged between the Sayyid and prominent Sheikh Uways al-Barawi from Barawa, the leader of the 1908 Benadir revolt.[35]
Uways recited this qasida criticizing the Sayyid:[36]
صل على محمد واله واصرف بهم من كل سوء داهيه
من اقتدى محمدا بشرعه لا يقتدى جماعة الشيطانية
هم المبيحون دماء العلما والمال والحريم هم إباحيه
ويمنعون الدرس للعلوم كالفقه والنحو هم الكراميه
بكل شيخ مات كالجيلاني لا يتوسلون كالجناحيه
لا يقتدرون خلف من له شعر سيماهم التحليق كالوهابيه
ويشترون الجنة بمال في دارنا جهرا هم الكلابيه
ويختلون بالحريم للإجا زة كأمهم فذا سفاحيه
يتبعون رأيهم لا كتبنا ويدعون النور من بلاسيه
ويفعلون النكر في ذكرهم فعلا وقولا يقتضي كفرانيه
كاللعب قائلين أألله شكا به جلهم الشماليه
لهم ضجيج وأنين وحنيــــــــن وفحيح كالكلاب الناحيه
ويكثرون الحلف بالطلاق وينكرون الكلفة الالهيه
ضلوا وأضلوا العباد في الثرى برا وبحرا اي من السماليه
أليس ذو لب وفهم يغترر بهم ففر عنهم كالدواهيه
—Uways Al Barawi Qasida on Salihiyya
Translation:
Give a prayer to Muhammad (Sayyid) and his family and turn, through them, from all evil calamities
The ones who has imitated Muhammad (Prophet Muhammad) through his law does not follow the faction of Satan
They are the justifiers of [spilling] the blood of the ulama and of wealth and women, they are libertines
They prohibit the study of sciences such as law and grammar, they are the repugnant
Through every Shaykh who has died such as Al-Jilani they do not seek petition, like the faction of sin
They do not follow behind the one who has locks of hair, their characteristic is to wear their hair long like the Wahhabiyya
They trade paradise for cash publicly, in our land, they are a sect of dogs
They dally with women who come for license, like with their own mothers, and this is fornication
They follow their own opinions, not our books, and they claim to the light from the faction of Satan
And they practice denial at their dhikr, in word and action it requires blasphemy
Like their game of saying Is it God? - doubting him, the northern faction (dervishes) glorify them
They make a clamour, a wailing and groaning and howling like mournful dogs
And they frequently use the oath By the divorce and reject the ceremony of Allah
They have gone astray and make people go astray on earth by land and sea anyone from [among] the Somalis
Is it not the owner of reason and understanding deceived by them?
Then flee from them as from calamities
Wallahu 'alam, but definetly worth digging into.
Interestingly his life coincides with the wahhabi era as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slimane_of_Morocco
During year 1792 Morrocco is said to have been ruled by a wahhabi leaning sultan as well. Make whatever you wish of it... but Ala Hazrat and the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah have always been staunch sunnis and opposing wahhabis , so that no one could make any claim of them ever having Wahhabi tendencies.
Another interesting thing is the case of Muhammad Hayah al sindhi and the likes of ibrahim al kurani, their teachers and views and how certain movements came about, think of the Kadizadeli during the ottoman era for instance.
This same ibrahim al kurani is said to be the murshid of the jahriyya naqshbandis in China through Ma Mingxin(Mohammed Emin) , who were opposed to the khufiyya. They had violent clashes amongst eachother.
See pg 85 onwards
https://archive.org/details/oapen-20.500.12657-75790/page/84/mode/1up
Perhaps Wahhabism was not invented overnight and the teaching of ibn taymiyyah were not fully buried prior to Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab...
The interesting thing about history is seeing what event and circumstances lead to the present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadizadeli
Focus more on the references and not so much on the wikipedia article itself. Just gives more of an insight into what the environment was like at the time and where the final domino fell that gave birth to wahabbism and its offshoots. At least from there on you can actually make some sense of the wikipedia articles...
Then there was also the conflict between the Qadiriyya shuyookh in Somalia against the Salihiyya.
See :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowlana_Abd_al-Rahman_Nurow
Said to be a diciple of Ahmed ibn Idris Al fasi..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muḥammad_ibn_'Abdallāh_Hassan
Said to be a disciple/student of the former.
Under the 'The Dervish War'
I found this of interest:
Fight against the Qadiriyya
Despite leaving Berbera after being rebuked by the leading Sheikhs of the rival Qadiriyya school the enmity did not end. Heated poems would be exchanged between the Sayyid and prominent Sheikh Uways al-Barawi from Barawa, the leader of the 1908 Benadir revolt.[35]
Uways recited this qasida criticizing the Sayyid:[36]
صل على محمد واله واصرف بهم من كل سوء داهيه
من اقتدى محمدا بشرعه لا يقتدى جماعة الشيطانية
هم المبيحون دماء العلما والمال والحريم هم إباحيه
ويمنعون الدرس للعلوم كالفقه والنحو هم الكراميه
بكل شيخ مات كالجيلاني لا يتوسلون كالجناحيه
لا يقتدرون خلف من له شعر سيماهم التحليق كالوهابيه
ويشترون الجنة بمال في دارنا جهرا هم الكلابيه
ويختلون بالحريم للإجا زة كأمهم فذا سفاحيه
يتبعون رأيهم لا كتبنا ويدعون النور من بلاسيه
ويفعلون النكر في ذكرهم فعلا وقولا يقتضي كفرانيه
كاللعب قائلين أألله شكا به جلهم الشماليه
لهم ضجيج وأنين وحنيــــــــن وفحيح كالكلاب الناحيه
ويكثرون الحلف بالطلاق وينكرون الكلفة الالهيه
ضلوا وأضلوا العباد في الثرى برا وبحرا اي من السماليه
أليس ذو لب وفهم يغترر بهم ففر عنهم كالدواهيه
—Uways Al Barawi Qasida on Salihiyya
Translation:
Give a prayer to Muhammad (Sayyid) and his family and turn, through them, from all evil calamities
The ones who has imitated Muhammad (Prophet Muhammad) through his law does not follow the faction of Satan
They are the justifiers of [spilling] the blood of the ulama and of wealth and women, they are libertines
They prohibit the study of sciences such as law and grammar, they are the repugnant
Through every Shaykh who has died such as Al-Jilani they do not seek petition, like the faction of sin
They do not follow behind the one who has locks of hair, their characteristic is to wear their hair long like the Wahhabiyya
They trade paradise for cash publicly, in our land, they are a sect of dogs
They dally with women who come for license, like with their own mothers, and this is fornication
They follow their own opinions, not our books, and they claim to the light from the faction of Satan
And they practice denial at their dhikr, in word and action it requires blasphemy
Like their game of saying Is it God? - doubting him, the northern faction (dervishes) glorify them
They make a clamour, a wailing and groaning and howling like mournful dogs
And they frequently use the oath By the divorce and reject the ceremony of Allah
They have gone astray and make people go astray on earth by land and sea anyone from [among] the Somalis
Is it not the owner of reason and understanding deceived by them?
Then flee from them as from calamities
Wallahu 'alam, but definetly worth digging into.
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Oowais Qassim Ali
Well-Known Member
Wahhabism did not magically pop into existence when Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab was born.
Across the Muslim world, anti-Sufi sentiments were already growing. He simply gave those beliefs a face. This is usually how every new ideology is formed;
Scattered and ambiguous idea starts spreading among the people, then one individual rises. He articulates what others feels and canonizes those beliefs. Then he gains popular support and begins to spread and enforce these upon others.
Humans love oversimplification. We tend to think of historical events as switching a light bulb on or off, but in reality things are far more gradual and subtle than we assume.