Can Shahid stop his witch hunt against Shaykh Asrar

i can understand your acrimony towards shahid ali, but you should not conflate issues.

shahid ali as a person - and the reason he was dismissed are two separate issues.

shahid ali was not dismissed because - in your words - he was incompetent etc. he was dismissed because he challenged the dinosaurs ruling our masjids - sitting on funds provided by sunni muslims and doing their own thing as autocratic rulers.

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where shahid sahib attacks sh.asrar - he does not spare anonymous internet posters with no credentials either. in fact, he pours scorn on us for 'supporting asrar'.

but still, as a matter of principle, i will support shahid in this JTI matter. niemoller and all that.

Allah knows best.

 

Won't you find out for us? There's a good lad.

 

@Aqdas you seemed awfully passionate about it. Would you know why nobody from NMJM has spoken out yet?

https://www.facebook.com/174950531908740

 

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

This letter was posted over a month ago addressed to the Imams of:

• North Manchester Jamé Masjid
• SBC Masjid, Birmingham
• Kanz ul Huda, Birmingham
• TheSunniWay, Preston
• Masjid e Noor, Preston
• Luton Central Mosque
• Masjid-e-Noorul Islam, Bolton

Allah knows best if they all reached their destinations.

Upon learning of these recent antics, I feel quite embarrassed at expressing sympathy for Shahid Ali. Of course, he should not have been suspended for the reason of protesting. However, condemnation of the events and actions of JTI are a communal duty upon our Ulama, and it does not rely, nor depend, on Shahid Ali.

But perhaps his suspension was a blessing in disguise. Incompetent people lauded as “Mawlana” or “Imam” are not beneficial to Ahlus Sunnah. They’re detrimental. And the sooner our pulpits and Masajid are rid of stupidity, the better. Quality over quantity.

It’s the case of a loudmouth speaking over and undoing the hard work of others.

 

brother, i did not say that shaykh asrar should now do bay'at with shahid ali's or accept and support everything shahid sb. says.

your question was 'should he support shahid at JTI?' and my answer was yes - because of the underlying principle. a sunni was removed from a masjid for leading a protest against a shia molvi occupying our masjid. so "supporting shahid" is strictly in that context.

i have also mentioned that due to the undesirable exchange - which sh.asrar is at the receiving end - he need not support it by 'supporting' shahid sahib directly. he could have supported from the outside, stating the principle - that the JTI is wrong in doing so.

 

Shaykh, the text after the affirmative has nothing to do with the question. The question is not "should sh Asrar refute Irfan Shah", because it is obvious that he should and has (some reference videos were posted on the other thread). The question is about supporting shahid Ali. A person does not need to support a personality to clarify heresies and points of Aqidah. Therefore, if you still believe yes, then the explanation should define why should Shahid be supported (not why should Irfan shah be refuted) even though it is evident that he continues to harm the Sunni public like Irfan Shah but just in a very different way.

Also just to clarify here, in my understanding, the issue between the two (Asrar and Shahid) is not personal because one is claiming the other to be a heretic (Sulh Kulli).

 

yes of course. that was a matter of principle. if sh. asrar has personal issues with shahid, he could have refuted irfan shah separately. just because the cause is espoused by someone who has hurt me, i wouldn't stay away from it - as a matter of principle.

and sh.asrar has his own platform - in fact, it would have made a bigger impact - as even rivals are joining together for a cause, from multiple platforms.

Allah knows best.

 

For those who were jumping on the bandwagon of "Sh Asrar must support Shahid at JTI" do you still agree with that reasoning?

No doubt about it that Irfan Shah should be removed from sunni masjid's, however that does not mean that we should be supporting someone who continues to divide and damage the Ahl Sunnah in the UK to be placed in such a public position. The questions put forward by shahid are silly and misleading. As an example, using the same logic that he does, here is a question for Shahid.

Recently an Atheist activist in trying to disprove Islam questioned the legitimacy of the poison which sh Asrar drank in the debate in the exact same way that shahid questioned its legitimacy. Therefore can Shahid explain why his conclusions align perfectly with that of atheists? Does he also reach other conclusions which align perfectly with that of atheists?

It is sad that a layman can find the flaws so easily with the above style questioning yet a mufti fails so miserably at recognizing such flawed reasoning. Madness prevails.

 

I whole heartedly agree with this. On a micro level, like the brother said; it's the main reason why we are in truth a generation behind the other groups in terms if advancing the maslak. On a macro level, it's the reason why Muslims are being 'lectured' on what their religon entails and why the current generation are turning their backs on traditional Muslim values and scholarship. We are being left behind on both a micro and macro level because of these silly politics, where the bigger picture is ignored.

The path Imam Shahid is currently on, it is unsustainable. He will end up becoming a parody and tomorrow another 'lion' will stand up and say Imam Shahid Ali is a Sullah Kulli too. Don't set a standard for others that tomorrow u will find impossible to adhere too, as your reach increases and you have to cater for a wider audience. There can be nuances and there has been and always will be ilmi ikhtilaf. let's move on and tackle the ever increasing bigger issues that affect our community.

 

senior ulama like Aslam Bandyalwi saab should also take note, or it should be brought to his attention, that

1) what Shahid is doing on this matter is detrimental to the maslak and manhaj of Sunnis

2) his talents and energies can be better utilized to refute atheists, liberals, lgbt, etc.

3) they should speak against Shahid's fitnah-mongering the same way they spoke against iran shah, if this time he doesn't clean up this mess he made, and soon, preferably within the first 10 days of Ramadan max. Sunnis don't need to watch another molvi-soap for the next 3 years!

4) thanks a lot for making a hujjatul Islam and mujahide millat and damat barakatuhumul 3aliya out of him (/sarcastic). please! for the love of Allah, cease and desist with these utterly undeservingly bogus and useless titles!

5) perhaps neither they nor Shahid might realize it, but if Shahid keeps up with these antics, he'll just become the molwi who cried sulah-kulli/heretic (boy who cried wolf)! even his work on real wolves like iran shah, devbandis, tahir, ghamidi, etc. won't be taken seriously, and that's detrimental to both him and Sunniyat

 

You can hate on me all you want but this is the perfect example of why Barelvis have made the least progress in the last 50 years. And that's the truth.

 

Shahid Ali is a loose canon, lights on nobody's home. I'm sorry to speak about him in such a manner, but when an individual decided to attack fellow Sunnis publicly, and cause the fitna he has, they loose a certain level of respect.

There are better, and more fruitful things to be doing like refuting:
- Atheism
- Materialism
- Feminism

The absolute waste of time antics Shahid Ali likes doing of causing inward fightings amongst Sunnis warrants people ignore him and turn there attention to Ullema who actually benefit Ahlusunnah

 

too late now!

now he can't pretend he didn't cause mischief... again... wrt Asrar Rashid.

now he's either gotta "entertain" Asrar Rashid - TRANSPARENTLY - or issue an unconditional "moment of madness - ii" apology before he washes his hands off this story! no other way out, morally speaking!

Deen is not a game and his 'ghar ki kheti' as a lot of cult peers seem to think, and people's times can't be wasted like this.

worse yet, if someone becomes disheartened from Sunniyat and Sunni shuyukh due to this behavior, he certainly will carry some blame for it.

 

Lol. Some of these questions are fair enough actually but some of them are stupid. For example, I don't believe shaykh asrar ever said minhaj ul Quran is a sunni organisation. He did say it has sunni members, which is not the same thing at all. This indicates a comprehension problem on the part of mufti shahid.

As for the organisation having at least some sunni members, this is patently clear to anyone who's ever met a member. Most of them will be ordinary sunni people who don't know their alif from their 'ayn and certainly won't know about tahir's antics at Wembley etc. There's no way to say that all of the members of the organisation are non sunni. It's how we don't say all deo's fall under ala hazrat's fatwa because most of them won't be aware of the actual issues.

Other questions are phrased in a way that seems like a witch hunt for sure. For example, the shaykh samir thing- it assumes that shaykh asrar knows everything shaykh samir has said, ever. A better way of phrasing it would be as two parts i.e are you aware that samir Al nass said x and if so, what do you think about it. Again, with all due respect, a mufti should understand how questions are to be phrased because if he can't understand that, his own answers will be lacking in fluency, distinction and clarity as well as subtlety. I'm a pedant, however, so maybe that's what's shining through here.

Some questions are fair game though. But since this all seems like low level junk, I'd advise imam shahid to get over it and move on with his life instead of focusing on contributing poorly thought out questions for a sunni scholar who has essentially been doing the entire heavy lifting in the English language. Sure, you can refute the guy because he did say mma is halal or whatever and we questioned him regarding this on this forum. But why waste your time figuring out if mermaids are halal whilst the Mongols pillage Baghdad, ya know?

 

Written responses would be best from both sides, as you could sometimes say stuff in the wrong way in the video and the it gets misconstrued.
These can then be read by the followers of each without it getting highly publiicised whilst both Shaykh Asrār and Shahid ʿAlī can carry making videos refuting liberalism and other stuff which can ge spread across the internet so it is known that deviants arent the only ones tackling liberalism but the sunni's are too

 

where did shaykh asrar

1. say that all sects are valid?

2. praise deviants?

3. called for unity with them?

4. defend them?​

5. respect them?​

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am curious to know. there are some issues i am not happy with sh. asrar's approach, but they are not about serious charges as above. in my opinion, shaykh asrar should not attend events with shady characters, or be seen in their company. and he may have his reasons to do so. but accusing him of saying "all sects are valid" - has to be backed with proof. and if he has said so, we must certainly ask him to clarify.

shahid sahib must provide proof for this.

 

yes those questions were posted on whatsapp by Imam Shahid Ali himself and I witnessed it