Definition of sahabi

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Noori, Nov 27, 2023.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    @basirqadri786: if you want to jump in the middle of a conversation, at least be relevant. don't go to a marriage expecting to be felicitated for singing dirges.
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
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  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    perhaps if you learned to read, you could understand better.

    actually, you have no reasoning skills.

    i was comparing the opinion of ibn abbas raDiyAllahu anhu in a SPECIFIC issue which is accepted by jumhur vs. the opinion of sayid ibn al-musayyib (a tabiyi, albeit among the seniormost) which is not accepted by jumhur including all the names of scholars you named. how is this 'wahabi' reasoning?

    in which case, any name you mention should go under your critique of "wahabi reasoning".

    btw, wahabi, not wahhabi.

    yeah. that is the only insult you could grab hold of.


    i don't see any problem with bajuri's definition. you just jumped in throwing random quotes without a head or a tail or clarifying what exactly irks you from shaykh bajuri's quote. of course, you belittled him by saying:
    even though shaykh bajuri was only citing a valid difference of opinion concerning khaDir alayhi's salam. perhaps you don't know about imam bajuri just as you didn't know about iraqi.

    within a few posts, you turned around accusing us of not being tolerant of varying opinions. are you coming or going? make up your mind.

    you don't even have the basic skill of proper citation, yet you accuse us of cut and paste. now where did you cut and paste this from? i may be wrong, but i have a strong feeling that you did not type that out from a book and just copied it from a website.

    regardless, just for reference, it would be nice if you mentioned where subki said this and which subki.

    someone asked a question, and a concise answer was given. if you have any objections on that, first make your stand clear and then mention YOUR opinion/choice and cite references to back your opinion. instead of that, just copying randomly and acting as if you were saying something profound which was hitherto in the dark is pretty juvenile.

    and though you try to show off your arabic pasting skills, why don't you translate that for the benefit of others? or is it that you cannot find translations online that can be cut and pasted?

    i would have dismissed you as another idiot, but you are unnecessarily creating confusion. if you have any objections to the definition of the SaHabi that i posted, (vide bajuri) please make it known instead of trying to project it as inaccurate. and if it is indeed so, show us where it is incorrect. and please don't try to intimidate me with citations.

    for example, your post about khaDir alayhi's salam attributing a position to ibn Hajar, is dishonest at the least.
    before we continue, i asked you for a clarification. are you saying that the above is ibn Hajar's opinion?

    the brother asked:
    you replied
    but you ignored the fact that all the prophets have passed away except hazrat yisa and hazrat ilyas; and hazrat khaDir according to those who consider him a prophet. alayhimu's salam. even if prophets met, they did so after their passing away from this world. which would not satisfy the definition of the SaHabi. hence the mention of three who are deemed alive.

    wAllahu a'alam.

    what you posted ARE random quotes - and clearly shows an cluttered and unorganised mind. you can call me whatever you want, am too old to fall for silly baits laid out by juveniles.

    my frank opinion about you: you are a muddled mind and a waste of time who is playing an unnecessary game of one-upmanship.
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
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  3. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    Bhai, don't take this as negative, but this is wahhabi way of reasoning, they do this all the time, Does Abu Hanifah know better or Sahaba, wahhabis do this always in the matters of aqidah and fiqh.

    Nawazuddin Hasanain Bukhari has issues with Tafdeel and he telling others about lack of definitive ijma, hey buddy, there is a difference between Sunni scholarship and wahhabi scholarship.

    Wahhabi always force their opinion on others, and they have this disease of انا where as sunnis we have Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali, Maliki, and Ashari, Maturidi, Athari.

    Wahhabi claims random quotes from these scholars creates confusion, and sunni replies: Confusion is only for those who have disease in their heart. If check Albani, he said exactly the same thing, confusion, differences in opinion, ........

    unfortunately, wahhabism way of thinking has corrupted many sunni minds.

    Bukhari said:
    من صحب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أو رآه من المسلمين فهو من أصحابه

    Sahiba could be said here as company / acquaintance

    Subki said:
    والصحابى هو كل من رأى النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم مسلماً، وقيل : من طالت مجالسته، والصحيح الأول، وذلك لشرف الصحبة، وعظم رؤية النبى - صلى الله عليه وسلم -، وذلك أن رؤية الصالحين لها أثر عظيم، فكيف رؤية سيد الصالحين؟! فإذا رآه مسلم ولو لحظة، انطبع قلبه على الاستقامة، لأنه بإسلامه متهيئ للقبول، فإذا قابل ذلك النور العظيم، أشرق عليه وظهر أثره فى قلبه وعلى جوارحه

    Don't try to force your opinion on others, that's a wahhabi trademark in guise of confusion or random quotes.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    does ibn abbas raDiyAllahu anhu know more than us?

    hadith of bukhari #3764 below:

    bukhari, 3764-65.jpg

    do we take sayid ibn musayyib's definition, or ibn abbas?
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  5. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    خفى المطر الفار
  6. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    @Aqdas your hypothetical questioner is no longer hypothetical - some people are so predictable they never fail our surmises :)
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    khuub taqiyah hai ke chilman se lage baythe haiN
    saaf chhuptey bhi nahin, saamney aatey bhi nahiN

    by those definitions, hasanayn karimayn raDiyAllahu anhuma would not be Sahabah, because they did not fight alongside RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam in any ghazwah. nor would sayyidah khadijah raDiyAllahu anha be a SaHabiyyah, because she passed away before any of the ghazawat.

    curiously, even the snippet nawaz posted refutes him - if he had not cut it precisely where it begins to refute his argument:

    kifaya,khatib p50.png

    according to the above opinion those who did not reach puberty or did not understand religious issues are not SaHabah.

    bajuri has already mentioned that there are minor disagreements, but thereafter there is a common agreement among hadith scholars which he has mentioned. shiah and shiah influenced people make this to be a big issue, just to deny hazrat muawiyah as a SaHabi, so they can abuse him freely and attempt to duck the objection of reviling a SaHabi.

    sure, change the name of beer to something else, say it is not wine and drink it. and fool yourself that you have done nothing wrong. but have you considered:


    nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.


    @basirqadri786 : grabbing random quotes and throwing them at random to cause confusion is certainly not appreciated. if you want to participate in a thread to educate, show some decorum, not act like a rowdy member in the audience jeering all the time.

    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  8. Nawazuddin

    Nawazuddin Veteran

    sahabi ibn musayyab.PNG

    Apparently, Said ibn al-Musayyab defined a sahabi as the one who accompanied Rasul Allah sallalahu alayhi wa aalihi wasallam for one or two years and participated with Him (saww) in one or two ghazwas. This is from al-kifayah of Khateeb (d. 463). The difference, if correct, suggests a lack of definitive ijma on the definition.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    waiting for opinions of imams subki, amidi and suyuti.

    i can understand that you have a problem with me, but won't you spare imam bajuri?

    he just listed three differing opinions, and mentioned his preference. you don't have to criticise just because you have to say something. what is wrong with mentioning the differing opinions here, more so because it is a relevant discussion?

    @basirqadri786 : by the way, are you implying that ibn Hajar favoured the position that hazrat khaDir was not a nabiy?
  10. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    Let us read the definitions of some scholars like Subki, Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Amidi, Suyuti.

    بدر الدين الزركشى : ذهب الأكثرون إلى أن الصحابى من اجتمع - مؤمناً - بسيدنا محمد - صلى الله عليه وسلم - وصحبه ولو ساعة ، روى عنه أو لا ، لأن اللغة تقتضى ذلك، وإن كان العرف يقتضى طول الصحبة وكثرتها وهو ما ذهب إليه جمهور الأصوليين ، أما عند أصحاب الحديث فيتوسعون فى تعريفهم لشرف منزلة النبى - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ​

    Here hour doesn't not mean exactly 60 Minutes, this is a recent invention, it is a phrase, meaning even for a moment/hour

    Ibn Hajar says in Isabah:

    وأصح ما وقفت عليه من ذلك أن الصحابي من لقي النبي ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ مؤمناً به ومات على الإسلام
    so here Ibn Hajar says simple meeting is enough and Suyuti followed this def. in Tadrib al-Rawi

    Iraqi said

    والعبارةُ السالمةُ مِنَ الاعتراضِ أنْ يقالَ : الصحابيُّ مَنْ لقيَ النبيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مسلماً ثمَّ ماتَ على الإسلامِ ؛ ليخرجَ مَنِ ارتدَّ وماتَ كافراً
    We can also present the other view, the opinion of Bukhari and other elders, which is different than the above.

    Regarding is Khidr A.S. considered a Sahabi? Then this is disputed, even it is disputed that he is not alive, so how can he be sahabi, here ibn hajar asqalani makes his point, again in Isabah:

    فلو كان الخضر موجوداً في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لجاء إليه ونصره بيده ولسانه وقاتل تحت رايته ، وكان من أعظم الأسباب في إيمان معظم أهل الكتاب الذين يعرفون قصته مع موسى
    I am not sure why Bajuri made a disputed issue, as a point of aqida.

    قال السهيلي: وقال البخاريّ، وطائفة من أهل الحديث: مات الخَضِر قبل انقضاء مائة سنة من الهجرة، وقال: ونصر شيخنا أبو بكر بن العربي هذا لقوله صَلَّى الله عليه وسلم: عَلَى رَأْسِ مَائةِ سَنَةٍ لاَ يَبْقَى عَلَى الأرْضِ مِمَّنْ هُوَ عَلَيْهَا أَحَدٌ ، يريد ممَّن كان حيًا حين هذه المقالة​

    conclusion brother izz al-din: going by def. yes, those prophets should be considered sahaba, but i can't recall any scholar counting them as sahaba. Hope someone can answer your question, which is interesting question and if my own son asked this question, i won't be able to answer it.
  11. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member


    Is there any mention, in the Aqidah books, about all the Anbiya alKiraam, alayhim alSalawatu wa Salam, because of the Isra, and Masjid alAqsa?
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  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that is why they said, 'met' instead of 'stayed in the company' according to the literal meaning of 'saHabi' meaning 'one who had stayed in the company for some time'.

    as for ijmaa' - the rafidis generally reject ijma'a.
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    then we must ask, what according to him is the duration that the person must have spent in the company of rasulAllah (peace be upon him) to be known as a sahabi - and what are his proofs. How many hours and how many days and how can it be known with certainty that the qualifying duration had actually been spent in the blessed company.

    and what is the definition of this "company" - would staying within a certain radius of masjid nabawi shareef ('ala saHibiha afDalus salaati wat tasleem) suffice or only the minutes spent in the actual presence of rasulAllah (peace be upon him) count. If the former, then what is the radius and what is the proof.

    there is a hadith about a companion (raDyiAllahu 'anhu) who accepted Islam, went into battle and was martyred. He did not offer even a single salah in congregation with rasulAllah (peace be upon him) and did not spend even one complete day in his (peace be upon) company.

    So according to this hypothetical questioner, would the companion not count as a sahabi?

    and if this certifying authority intends to exclude a companion from the blessed jama'ah then he must produce solid proofs for the standards he uses for comparison - not his personal whims actuated by overt/covert prejudices.
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  14. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Is that definition agreed upon? What if someone turns around and says so-and-so isn't a sahabi as he didn't spend too much time with RasulAllah ﷺ...
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  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    awn al-murid,p117-119

    awnmurid, p117.png

    awnmurid, p118.png

    awnmurid, p119.png
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  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    imam ibrahim al-bajuri in tuHfah sh. jawharah, distich #4

    muHammadu'l `aaqib li rusli rabbih
    wa aalihi wa SaHbihi wa Hizbih, it means the Companion [SaHabiy]: [who is defined as:] a person who [physically] met the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam as a believer [mu'min] after the proclamation [bi'ythah] of his prophethood [SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam] in a detectable locus [i.e. on this earth* in a wakeful state]; even if that person did not see RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, nor reports anything from him, or had reached the age of discerning according to the correct position.

    explaining the above, a SaHabi:
    - would have met the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam physically
    - in a 'detectable locus', place which cannot be denied by anyone; that is the earth
    - while being a believer himself/herself
    - after the proclamation of prophethood
    - it is not necessary for the person to have physically 'seen' RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam; which includes the blind companions
    - it is not necessary that the person should have reported from RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam;
    - though there is disagreement, the correct position is that small children are also included among companions.

    imam bajuri continues on those who are included among Companions:

    as for the statement: "and who died upon faith" [wa maata ala al-islam], it is a condition for continuing status of being a Companion, not for it original application. [for instance,] if a person becomes an apostate, and we seek Allah's refuge, he is not a Companion such as abdullah ibn khaTal.

    as for those who reverted to faith such as abdullah ibn abi's sarH, then his status of being a companion is restored, however sans reward according to shafiyis; it is famous that malikis say that the status is not restored, even though it is evident from their books that there are conflicting opinions [among maliki scholars], because of which there is no hindrance [for any of them] to follow the madh'hab of shafiyis [in this issue] as expressed by their senior scholars [ashyakhihim]. and the benefit of restoring the status is in the inclusion of their names as companions and that they are equality in marriage; that is such a revert is known as a SaHabi, and he can marry the daughter of a SaHabi as an equal.

    and ibn umm maktum and other blind persons like him are included as SaHabah. his mother earned the appellation, 'umm maktum' because of the loss of his eyesight, and his name was abdullah, he was among the muadh'dhins of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam.

    also included are sayyiduna yisa [ibn maryam] and khaDir and ilyas - `alayhimu's salatu wa's salam.

    also included are angels who met with him [SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam] on earth.

    thus, sayyiduna yisa alayhi's salam will be the last of the known human Companions. and the angels will live until the blowing of the horn.

    khaDir will pass away when the qur'an is taken away; though, some have said that he has already passed away. the summary of this issue is: according to the most reliable position, both khaDir and ilyas are alive - except that ilyas is a Messenger by the qur'anic text: "verily, ilyas is among the messengers" [surah saaffaat, v123].

    as for khaDir, it is said that he is waliy, that he is nabiy, or that he is a messenger.

    the best route is the middle way, the moderate path.

    a little more detail can be found in awn al-murid, which may follow, bi idhnillah.

    tuhfahbajuri, p27.png

    *fi maHall al-ta'arruf; in `awn al-murid, it is explained as: 'on the face of the earth'. meaning, not in a dream, or in the heavens when Mustafa SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam went on his night journey.
  17. Ridawi78692

    Ridawi78692 Hanafi Maturidi Qadri

    Brother Abu Hassan needs to answer this one for all of us!
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Is there an agreed upon definition of 'sahabi'? Is there an ijma'a on it?

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