Dua of Hasan ibn Ali

Discussion in 'Adhkar' started by Ubaid, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member


    edited: no go.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2009
  2. btw it is a BEAUTIFUL dua. what else can one expect from the Grandson of the Beloved of the Lord? :as:
  3. i suspect ubaid of being a closet Shia and, if not, he certainly has such tendencies since he always comes up with these sorts of comments whenever the blessed ahlul bayt are mentioned--as if only he has love and respect for them and everyone else doesn´t!

    His initial premiss that imam hasan :as: only divorced one at a time is his own conjecture and thus is whole argument is flawed let alone that he hasn´t been able to name any major sunni scholars of the past who agree with him as challenged by AH.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i think you people need to learn to read first. you imagine things and refute these imaginary notions. i never said historians are infallible - that is of your own concotion. the reason of quoting ta'dil is precisely for that very reason - since most historians are heavily criticized for collecting all kinds of reports, someone with a reputation like al-madayini should be better than others. unlike ubaid's hallucination, i did not say i follow the madh'hab of al-madayini. just said that he was generally accepted as an authority and well-respected.

    perhaps your teachers and shaykhs are all infallible and you don't take anything from someone who is not infallible?

    my point is very simple: major historians accept this idea about imam Hasan marrying many women. i have no problem accepting it. along comes someone who oh-so arrogantly writes off that it is fabricated. no problem. i am interested in knowing if it any of the old scholars said it, or if it is the phenomenal powers of reasoning (remember the absurd b=c therefore d=f thread?) at work.

    when asked for proof, he simply quoted a historian who mentioned that mansur made a speech and said so-and-so. if you have a bit of justice left in you, ask yourself (before you send la'anat on anybody you please): did the historian say anything about 'fabrication'? is it not dishonesty to accuse someone and not present proof even if it is about a dishonorable person? of course, i am not a fan of mansur - nor am i concerned about mansur's deeds or misdeeds.

    and we haven't even begun talking about al-masuudi himself!

    the charge of 'fabrication' is offensive for a different reason. a pipsqueak like ubaid casually dismissing suyuti and bayhaqi [in the du'a part] is not palatable. if you have proof against him from elder scholars, then post it here - don't give us your deformed opinions.

    and ubaid? what do you know what ubaid is! he is the kind of a person who will lie down on the road and claim that gravity is suspect because people are all walking on the wall. even cars and buses are seem to crawl up and down the asphalt wall.

    on a sidenote, i fear that by insulting imam al-ghazali you are bringing humiliation upon yourselves. may Allah give you all some sense.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i may remind everybody on this forum that these notes are not my own research. i have attempted to translate as faithfully as i can (and my limited faculties permit) from the work of al-suyuti. if you have to refute him go ahead and demonstrate his weak knowledge of hadith or its sciences.

    as for me, don't even try. i will spare you the effort of trying to prove that my knowledge of hadith is poor and i act like a beginner-student. i acknowledge it readily.

    a man can write in one book at a time. how can a man write 100 books when he was already writing a book?

    oh, yes. i had not thought of THAT. my sincere apologies for not learning basic fiqh. inshaAllah, i will make amends.

    the rest of the post is wonderful deduction, maa shaa Allah.
  6. Muhammadi

    Muhammadi Well-Known Member

    aH you are wrong - historians aren’t infallible regardless of attractive ta'dil

    Islam allows an ‘aqil and baligh Muslim to marry up to four women at any given time [al-quran: 4:3]. As Imam Hasan [‘alaihissalam] already had three wives, who were with him up to the last day of his life, he could marry only one more woman at any time.

    Bearing in mind this limitation, one can only regard statements like the following narrative with amusement: "Hasan would divorce his wives after a short marriage. Inspite of that, the women kept loving him even after being divorced. He married [about] ninety women". How could he marry ninety[/+] women when he already had three wives? Consider the following:

    Suppose that he married a fourth wife, and then divorced her. As long as that divorced wife was in 'idda – normally three months – she was counted legally his wife, and Imam Hasan [‘alaihissalam] could not marry another woman before the expiry of her 'idda.

    Let us now suppose that he married another woman [after divorcing the fourth woman]. As divorce cannot be given in a month in which cohabitation has taken place, the earliest that wife could be divorced was in the next month; her 'idda continued for 3 months. Thus, four months passed before Imam Hasan [‘alaihissalam] could be free to marry another wife. One wife in four months gives us a maximum of three wives in a year. Supposing that Imam Hasan [‘alaihissalam] had no other work except marrying and divorcing, as Mansur [may Allah’s la’nat/curse be upon him] said, and if we count from 37 A.H. up to his martyrdom at the beginning of 51 A.H. [the latest martyrdom date recorded] to get a period of 14 years, this will give us a maximum number of forty-two [42] possible marriages.

    And the minimum alleged by the fallible scholars aH mentions is seventy [70] wives [and up to 250 and 300 even]!
  7. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member

    irrelevant comments edited

    aH: a harmless thread of du'a was disrupted by you for no reason. just let us talk about ONE source that claims that the reports of imam Hasan's marriages are fabrications. i am interesting in knowing if elders had their doubts - who gives a hoot about what pipsqueaks think?

    WARNING TO UBAID: i will delete every post of yours henceforth, until you answer this question directly. you might think it is smart to throwing slush here and there, muddying the floor and keep walking away without any obligation when cornered or questioned. either you answer, or admit that you do not have an answer.

    NOTE TO SELF: date 26th February 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2009
  8. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member


    red herring deleted.


    aH: you are diverting the issue as usual. just let us talk about this report - don't deviate.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2009
  9. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member


    ubaid's fanciful interpretation deleted


    aH: let us not deviate. i just want to know one thing: is this claim of yours [about imam Hasan's marriages] echoed by anyone across the centuries and if yes, please state them.

    i will continue to delete anything that is not related to topic and by throwing in the behavior of your neighbor's cat in the discussion won't help.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2009
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    al-dhahabi in his siyar reports that imam ja'afar al-sadiq reports that sayyiduna ali said:
    'o people of kufa! do not give your daughters to Hasan, for he will divorce them very soon.' a man said: 'by Allah, we shall keep giving our daughters; he shall keep whom he likes and divorces those he does not want

    balādhūri, ansāb al-ashrāf: vol.3, pg.277
    ábbās ibn hishām al-kalbī narrates from his father from his grandfather from abū şāliĥ that he said: 'al-ĥasan married 90 women.' and áli said: 'Hasan has a habit of marrying and divorcing, until i feared that it would cause animosity [with us] among the people'
    he narrates many incidents of marriages through al-madayini.

    ibn saád in his ţabaqāt, vol.6/page 352 onwards (on imam Hasan) narrates numerous such reports.

    the question is: did any of these major historians - some well-known for their trustworthiness in narration - ever indicate that the divorces of al-Hasan raDiyallahu anhu were fabrications? i tried to find some hint, but i could not detect any demur - once again, help me please find it if it exists.

    or is it that some people in our age think they know better than al-suyuti or ibn asakir or al-bayhaqi or khatib al-baghdadi or baladhuri or al-madayini? even if their own research is patchy and picky, they do not hesitate to 'differ' with the likes of qadi iyad - even if it is just because, it does not agree with their brilliant minds.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    let us examine the flow so far.

    1. ubaid claims that news about imam Hasan's marriages were fabrications.

    2. aH asks for proof.

    3. ubaid quotes al-mas'udi who says that manSur made a speech; and in that speech he said: 'Hasan married women and divorced them'.

    now, maybe it is only i who cannot get it, but i appreciate if you help me see it:

    A. did al-mas'udi say that manSur fabricated this?

    B. or is every speech of manSur fabrication?

    C. or is every section a speech that manSur made and that which mentions al-Hasan, a fabrication?
    as far as i can see in the passage below al-mas'udi is narrating an event. i could not detect the 'fabrication' bit anywhere. help me please.
  12. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member

    yes, it is from Muruj adh-dhahab . a propoganda speech to justify his rule and negate janab hazrat nafs az-zakiya(A)'s claim by attacking Imam Hasan Mujtaba(A).
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    and this excerpt is from?

    and how does it prove that mansur fabricated those two issues?

    just wondering if it is from murūj adh-dhahab of al-masúūdī
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  14. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member

    قال المسعودي: ولما أخذ المنصور عبد الله بن الحسن وأخوته والنفر الذين كانوا معه من أهل بيته صعد المنبر بالهاشمية، فحمد الله واثنى عليه، وصلى على محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم، ثم قال: يا أهل خراسان، أنتم شيعتنا وأنصارنا، وأهل دعوتنا، ولو بايعتم غيرنا لم تبايعوا خيرا منا، ان ولد ابن أبي طالب تركناهم والذي لا اله الا هو والخلافة فلم نعرض لهم لا بقليل ولا بكثير، فقام فيها علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه فما أفلح، وحكم الحكمين، فاختلفت عليه الأمة، وافترقت الكلمة، ثم وثب عليه شيعته وأنصاره وثقاته فقتلوه، ثم قام بعده الحسن بن علي رضي الله - عنه فوالله ما كان برجل، عرضت عليه الأموال فقبلها، ودس إليه معاوية إني أجعلك ولي عهدي، فخلعه وانسلخ له مما كان فيه، وسلمه إليه، وأقبل على النساء يتزوج اليوم واحدة ويطلق غدا أخرى، فلم يزل كذلك حتى مات على فراشه،
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    ubaid comes from a parallel universe: all these mu'arrikin were dolts - according to him - and the scholars who considered it narratable were not discerning. but he knows better. when he has already dismissed qadi iyad and nawawi of being unable to know the intricacies of the arabic idiom and so also classification of hadith, what chance do lesser beings like ourselves stand?

    but still:
    i did not know that you were 1400 years old, o great-great-grand-shaykh. else, how would you know?

    do we just take your word that it is a fabrication?
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  16. Ubaid

    Ubaid Active Member

    no, these are just some of the fabrications to malign Imam Hasan Mujtaba(alayhisalaam). divorcing and taking money were the allegations popularised by abu jafar masnur the abbasid usurper. he made these speeches recorded in the classical history books to malign banu fatima and particularly in his times janab hazrat nafs az-zakiya(A) who claimed the right to rule; the abbasids opened up factories of fabrications just like omayyads had doen before them. similarly, they accused moulay idris II in north africa of not being syed and being an illegitimate son. imam ali bin musa raza(A) was asked about Idris II the seconds nasab and he said that he was a genuine syed.

    take marriages of imam hasan Mujataba(A) many have reported them with many different numbers from 70 to 300...all fabrications.
  17. Muhammadi

    Muhammadi Well-Known Member

    Haq Sab Yaar

    It shows hazrat mu'awiyah's (radiyallahu 'anhu) respect and love for al-imam hasan ('alayhi as-salam). Thus, Haq Sab Yaar.
  18. SA01

    SA01 Veteran

    Subhanallah! JazakAllah for this brother :)
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    see this post. from imam suyuTi's tarikh al-khulafa.

    Bayhaqī and Ibn Ásākir report from Ibn al-Mundhir Hishām ibn Muĥammad [who reports] from his father: Once hardship befell Ĥasan ibn Álī. His annual pension was a hundred thousand. Muáāwiyah delayed the pension and this caused Ĥasan intense privation. Ĥasan says: ‘I sought to write to Muáāwiyah describing him my state. Somehow, I restrained myself and put it off for later. I saw RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam in my dream and he asked: ‘How are you Ĥasan?’ I replied, ‘Grandfather, I am fine’.

    I then complained to him of harsh times and indigence. He asked, ‘Did you seek to write to someone like yourself, complaining of adversity?’ I said, ‘Yes, yā RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayka wa sallam. What else can I do?’

    RasulAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam said, recite this duáā instead:
    ‘O Allāh put in my heart, that I hope from Thee Alone. And I hope not from any other except Thee. So much that I seek not [anything] from anyone other than Thyself. O Allāh [I seek Thee] that which I cannot attain by my strength [alone], neither do my deeds deserve to be rewarded, and that which does not exhaust my craving, and that which I cannot achieve by mere asking, and that which I cannot name it, bring it upon my tongue. Give me that, which Thou hath bestowed upon those past and those who come after. O Allāh give me the privilege of attaining Thy Grace.’
    Ĥasan says: ‘It was about a week since I began praying with these words and Muáāwiyah sent me a million and a half . I said, ‘Praise be to Him, who does not forget’. Presently, I saw RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam in my dream. He asked: ‘How are you Ĥasan?’ I replied: ‘I am fine, O RasūlAllāh şallAllāhu álayka wa sallam’ and narrated the story to him. He şallAllāhu álayhi wa sallam said: ‘My son, thus it happens to those who hope from the Creator Alone, and nothing from the creation’
    Last edited: May 9, 2008
  20. Muhammadi

    Muhammadi Well-Known Member

    subhan Allah

    radiyallahu 'anhuma.

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