Shaykh Asrar and His issues with subcontinental Ulama

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by Hanafi Sunni, Feb 3, 2024.

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  1. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    Sorry to go abit off here. I'm just saying this generally.

    But it's extremely sad and disheartening to say that people only use Alahazrat for his poetry, they become translators of his poetry, and once becoming popular using that (gaining a following), thereafter, they completely abandon mentioning the great imam (even on his urs day) and will be busy posting quotations of arabic books to display their "ilmi culture". Some of these quotes are mere exisiting translations of those Arabic books in English, cause clearly one can see they don't have knowledge of Arabic but pose as arabic linguists on social media.

    Then these very people, will question barelwis critique the barelwi culture...I don't know why, possibly just cause they feel they have become arabic experts by posting a few arabic passages and books on their socials.

    Leaving Alahazrat is extremely detrimental. I listen to Shaykh asrar very often, especially to his end of times series and talks, but one can clearly see the consequences of parting with Alahazrat (consider him inferior, maybe because his from the subcontinent).

    Allah rectify our state and manifest the true status of Imam ARK globally.

    May Allah reward Shaykh abu Hasan for bringing up sayyidi Alahazrat in many of his discussions and enlightening us on the great imams status and works.
     
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  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i listened to that portion and i found his opinions strange and even ill-informed. and he conflates issues, mixing up politics, practice, social issues with an utopian worldview.

    so what is his stand on mortgages in the UK? absolutely haram or allowed with conditions? because in the same segment he says: 'this should not be confused with certain other mortgages"

    so muslim tycoons taking unfair advantage of a fatwa should force fuqaha to revise or change their opinion? if there is a sharayi reason to allow, disallow, or allow with riders - just state it. why bring in misuse of the ruling and hence haram?

    he mentions foreclosures (i think he used a different term to describe it) - how many? what is the percentage?
    he mentions tycoons manipulating rulings and taking undue advantage of common muslims - how many? what is the percentage?

    i wonder why some people forget this concept 'misuse' when common people are given free permission to choose from any one of the four madhahib as they like, as many times they like?

    clearly, we should choose our dispensations according to taste, time, circumstance and who is doling out the dispensation.

    ---
    then about darurah - and the definition of darurah, a comment from sh. abdullah sirajuddin, who is a hadith scholar. does he have fatawa in this specific issue? this is a genuine question. i am a great admirer of shaykh abdullah, raHimahullah, and absolutely love his books and talks - and i am also translating a few of them, but that should not mean i refrain from quoting authorities on the subject such as alahazrat. for perspective, alahazrat has written a number of rasayil on darurah, haraj, dar al-harb etc.

    and i daresay no one in the past 100 years has ever written on these subject with such authority and compelling evidence on this matter. one needs to read these to appreciate the alahazrat's capability of ijtihad - in matters never discussed before nor found in books of yore.


    to the question: 'those people who allow one property on riba on mortgage"

    sh asrar replies
    : that's based on a different reasoning. that's based on darurah or al-hajah? is there an actual darurah? if you have a council house, there is no darurah. if you have land and property in pakistan or another country, bangladesh or wherever you come from originally, then there is no darurah. the darurah is case specific. darurah would be as shaykh abdullah sirajuddin rahimahullah, the foremost hadith scholar of recent times and hanafi jurist; he said: 'darurah, here would be, that if you are living in a -- or forced to live in a tent outside --on the road. in this day and age, they have these homes, shelters.. and if you end up in a shelter, you need a home...
    and then of course..darurah is according to the house also.


    so if you have property in pakistan/bdesh/india/etc - you don't fall in darurah if you are in the UK and hence you cannot take a mortgage.
    oh yeah, if you are homeless, or in a shelter - you can apply for mortgage. as if no other condition is required and homeless people can.

    lest this be smeared with a broad brush: "so you deny that riba is haram?" - i have to clarify beforehand, that i believe, like all muslims, that riba is absolutely haram. however, fuqaha have mentioned clauses and conditions under which one is excused if they obtain a riba-based loans - one should not equate those fiqhi dispensations as denying the hurmat of riba. al-iyadhu billah.

    ----
    then sh. asrar switches to currency notes, fiat currency and gold as currency. what has this got to do with the fatawa of earlier ulama?

    @32.30
    the dollar was pegged to the gold; pegging of gold was finished in the 1970s.
    and the world has fiat currency. the hadith mentions that a time will come when people will not find real currency. so today the currency we have does not have any intrinsic value.

    it is different to reading fatwa that may have been written in the 1800s like al-inbabi wrote a fatwa on paper money, the author of hashiya inbabi, which is the commentary on the umm al barahin. commentary of al bajuri.

    other ulama, they did write on paper money. but those fatawa now...those fatawa were written for that time and place. but post 1970s, the world order has changed. the financial world order has changed. and that has ramifications upon muslims and non-muslims. the exploitation is another aspect of ashratu's sa'ah.


    ---
    perhaps i am being a bit too touchy here - but sh.asrar does not mention kifl al-faqih of alahazrat, perhaps he is not aware of it or he forgot or chose to ignore. he however, mentions shaykh al-anbabi's "fatwa", though i have not seen it myself - other than a reference in sh.abdul latif farfur's risalah while describing the concept that 'note' is considered as something of value. kifl al-faqih is one of the finest treatises in fiqh which even enemies couldn't help praising. in spite of that being 100 years ago, the fiqhi insights you gain from it are timeless.

    this is one of the reasons why alahazrat's contributions remain unknown - for example, it is common to read in islamic finance/banking history, that maududi's work was the earliest that proposed islamic banking, even though it was alahazrat and alahazrat even mentioned examples that can be used for currency exchange. i mentioned this in the preface of "prospects of recovery".

    so, what is sh. asrar's advice to everyone in the world? throw away the currency notes they hold?

    does sh. asrar deal only in gold coins or does he too use currency notes (unless of course, he doesn't use it himself but someone else does it on his behalf)?

    how are those fatawa not applicable in our time? or is there a specific portion in the fatwa (of al-anbabi) that he disagrees with?

    what is the latest in fatwa and aHkam concerning currency notes according to shaykh asrar?

    ----
    interesting: [something i had shared with an aalim many months ago and had forgotten, until today. ]

    i found a risalah on currency notes by a shafiyi scholar, shaykh ahmad khatib al-makki in 1329 AH: raf' al-iltibas an hukm al-anwaT al-muta'aamal bayn al-nas. in this risalah, he mentions alahazrat's kifl al-faqih al-fahim.

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    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
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  3. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Shaykh Asrar is not a mufti and he should be leaving fiqh matters with the jurists.

    And yes, his undermining of the ulema of the subcontinent has been apparent since a few years ago. No matter how hard he tries he will never be able to satisfy the deobandi and wahhabi and at the same time will distance himself from the "Bareilvis". Tbh with what is going around with these scholars nowadays I won't be surprised if they ultimately gradually change down the line (we have examples right in front of us such as the Rafzi Irfan Shah) by moving closer to the Ahle Biddah and consequently further away from the ulema of haq.

    Let us pray that this does not happen!
     
  4. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    Recently heard a podcast of Shaykh Asrar on takbeer TV. He indirectly speaks about Subcontinental Ulama during the talk, regarding the Ulama giving a fatawa for permitting Loans (mortgages) for one property. He then discusses a hanafi fiqh law of Riba between a harbi and a Muslim which says "there is no riba between a Harbi and a Muslim" and says "these people refer to England as Darul Harb....."

    The main issue I find here is that he is comparing fatwas in the talk but saying "these people are very strict with people's beards and photography but are lenient on riba". Which comes through as ...subcontinental Ulama basically focus on trivial things like beard and photography.

    So the issue here is that is the matter of having a beard really that trivial?

    Secondly, to generalize and say that subcontinental Ulama are lenient on Riba. Many Ulama are extremely cautious on this matter and have prevented this strictly and only allowed it if it benefits the Muslim man after trying to look for qarza e hasana.

    Lastly, Shaykh asrar has an autocratic approach, E.g. when he feels like he will go and sit with 50 50 people like hijab. Post videos trying to prove hijab is a sufi (comes from a sufi background) etc. So he undermines meeting deviant under the shadow of "voicing for palestine" but will constantly take small digs at subcontinental Ulama over fiqh issues. The issue sitting with deviants is much bigger than fiqh rulings, cause it's now aqida Over fiqh.

    There was a time back when Shaykh would say
    "fiqh issues can differ and we should respect different Ulama fiqh rulings".

    I mean Shaykh can be easily questioned here...why isn't he now respecting different ulamas fatawa regarding mortgages etc? I feel his approach is becoming unreasonable and inconsistent with what he says in different talks.

    You can listen from 23 mins to 33 mins the issue where he discussed mortgages...

     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024

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