Ilm e Gaib

I have my doubts some sanghis somewhere are testing some some ChatGPT project, even wahabis don't talk with so many algorithmic iterations of jahil comments!

for that level of IQ of a "male, 43", Islamfactcheck.in is very intelligently and conspicuously well concealed in privacy at the domain name whois registers

... and who gave him that 1 Trophy Point on this site? he joined Monday and this is the only thread he's been on

see? it all adds up bro, something is seriously fishy!

 

it seems Muin here has declared himself a shia (or an offshoot of them)! He has sought verses regarding ulum al-khamsah but denies the verses of ilm ghayb. Just goes to show how time is wasted entertaining him.

for all the brothers on here, I recommend you ignore him now - certain people like arguing for the sake of it. He is obviously not knowledgeable nor a person genuinely seeking a discussion; I'm not sure if Sayyiduna Ali said this or not but the saying 'the moment you begin to debate with a fool you have already lost' that is attributed to him is apt here

 

acha. the way he writes, i seriously believed that he was some teenager or a tweenager.

 

ok bhai, for your sake, i'll let him be a 43 yr old male!



* AbdalQadir tries to patiently watch the 43 yr old male give gyaan

 

chalo. let us cool down a bit. AQ bhai, let him be.

--
so muinz, let us talk about the two verses. let us take the last verse of surah luqman first.

the aayat here is:

indeed, the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah.
and He makes the rain to fall
and He knows what is in the wombs
and no soul knows what it shall earn on the morrow
and no soul knows where on earth it will die
indeed, Allah is the KNOWING - and the one who INFORMS.​

----
this is my translation based on alahazrat's guidance.

these are the five things - ulum khamsah - that no one knows of their own volition.
but as we have seen in the previous verses, Allah ta'ala can INFORM anyone He wills.

most mufassirin and various traditions (hadith and aathar) mention that no one knows this except Allah. and they also hold that no one was given this knowledge.

so within ahl al-sunnah, one group of scholars leaned towards the literal meaning and said: RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam was given the knowledge of ghayb, except the five mentioned in the aayat.

and a second group of scholars said that RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam was given the FIVE as well.

----
if you incline towards the opinion of the first group - it is fine. you can continue to believe that RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam was given the knowledge of ghayb, except five.

and if you incline towards the other opinion, it is also fine. i too believe that RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam was given the ghayb INCLUDING the five.

----
now in the qur'anic verses itself - there is nothing that implies that it is impossible for anyone else to know EVEN if Allah informs them of it. there is no indication that Allah will NEVER inform anyone - it is not muTlaq, absolute.

so there is no need for either of the groups to be agitated; this is a matter of scholarly disagreement and especially the awaam should stay out of this argument and say Allah knows best.

----
as for anyone who claims it is shirk to believe that 5 things were GIVEN to RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam
or that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to know the 5 even when Allah ta'ala permits/informs, should give proof for their claim.

----
wahabis who clamour about this should first tell us whether it is muTlaq and it is impossible for anyone to know these five - even by the informing of Allah?

----
some people may be critical of the translation - but it is not my own understanding. i stand on the shoulder of giants. i have drawn guidance from alahazrat's translation.

wAllahu a'alam.

 

That's the kufr coming out from within you. Ilm e ghaib for the Prophets (Alayhi Salaam) is proven from the Quran itself and denying it is Kufr.

And a Nabi is one who informs the people of ghaib. For example the description of Jannat itself narrated through hadith in itself is from amongst the ghaib (hidden things).

And yes Allah alone is Alim ul Ghaib!

 

imagine someone who has been kicked into an Indian manhole and he imagines he is swimming in some south pacific lagoon.

@Muinzvision , whatever you are drinking, it's not lemonade

 

actually, the only thing it shows is that you are a big time jahil.

maybe you're not even a Muslim in real life, and just some bhakt of amit shah trolling Muslim sites

Islamic knowledge IS ROOTED IN ARABIC

Barelwis accept this
deobandis accept this
wahabis accept this
shias accept this
Hanafis accept this
Shafi3is accept this
Malikis accept this
Hanbalis accept this

ANYONE who claims ANY CONNECTION TO ISLAM - accepts this

You're not a jahil if you don't know Urdu - maybe your mother tongue is chinese, i don't know

you ARE a jahil if you comment on Urdu speaking Barelwis WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE FROM THEIR BARELWI BOOKS. you've passed with flying colors on that aspect of jahalat!

as for Arabic - regardless of what your mother tongue is - if you don't know or understand it, and argue about Islamic topics, then YES YOU ARE A JAHIL. even ask your own wahabi scolars this! So YES, you're a PHENOMENAL JAHIL.

As i said, given your ".in" domain name, i'm even suspicious you're a bhakt of rss running a phishing site!

i have NEVER seen a REAL person claiming Islam be so adamant on arguing without knowing Arabic - not even wahabis!

and i gave you tafsir for the verse, the part that you have a problem with.

is it my fault that you are a jahil and don't understand Arabic? even if i translated it for you, will you trust my translation? if not, what's the use?

take it to your scolar for a translation, and come back with a counter argument, if you are really a sincere Muslim

the only real joker here is you - with your worse than municipality school state board english and low class "arguments"!

QURAN IS IN ARABIC

The ONLY SHAITAN here running away from the Quran is the one who is running away from Arabic. that is YOU.

the funny thing is your "challenge" has been answered and destroyed, but because you're a jahil, you don't know!

the explanation has been given to you plenty.

your understanding and iq are sub-zero, that's why you don't get anything - even in english!

don't order anyone like they're your father's servants hired to take care of your nakhray!

 

i stuck to the ayah you mentioned, and answered TWICE -

once in post # 2 - you came back saying that you are a jahil who doesn't know urdu)

second time quoted Arabic tafsir in post # 12 (repeated below) - you came back saying you're a jahil who doesn't know Arabic. in fact even your english is ek dumm thudd kilaas. like a braying donkey you ask me for name and reference of the book, when it is given IN ENGLISH

(this is my post # 12 repeated)

you are a shameless creature. the only one changing topic is you. you call us shias, but don't give any proof for it

you are a jahil who doesn't know Arabic - yet you want to talk about Islam as if you are a great scholar

you are also illiterate in Urdu to understand barelwi lietrature in Urdu - YET YOU PASS JUDGMENT ON US WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT'S WRITTEN IN BARELVI BOOKS

your English is kuchra, you cannot read, write, and understand simple sentences

if you really are a Muslim, and have some shame, haya, and knowledge that you claim you do,

come on start by copying these two ayats here IN ARABIC - and tell us which Arabic word of the ayats means what in English

if you cannot do that, then you should keep your wahabi mouth shut tight - WHAT GUARANTEE DO YOU HAVE THAT THE ENGLISH YOU ARE PRESENTING IS THE REAL TRANSLATION OF THE ARABIC OF THE VERSE!

your time starts now...

 

@Muinzvision

i asked: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS AYAH MEANS?

قل هاتوا برهانكم إن كنتم صادقين

Why are you running away from answering this?

 

trying to explain you is just like pouring water on a vessel kept upside down

 

you have a serious problem with reading and comprehension.

i have posted a link IF you are in a hurry. if you cannot understand english, please ask your friends to help you understand the below statement.

not avoiding like you are doing. you have not answered a single question i have raised.

 

Hahaha...nice trick to avoid answering the question..just post the link or book name...

If you read those books imam suyuti or ibn e kaseer etc..then explain here...so that all you barelwi come to know the meaning of 7:197, 31:34 n72:26...

You approved me right...just running away instead of explaining...

 

these are your own assumptions. i never said, i will 'check and come back'. like all wahabis you have awhaam.

when food is placed on the spread, illiterate and uncouth people begin to eat from here and there and mix up things and drop things and spill food. you must have seen such uncivilised people, who were not taught manners of eating. we should not be like them.

are you so sure?

your problem like almost every rookie wahabi is that you lack reading skills. i told you that i will explain, and i intend to. wa billahi't tawfiq. if you are in a hurry and want it NOW - there are two books by two towering scholars of the past century. one is an arab and another is from india.

if you are a sincere seeker of knowledge, you can read those books and quench your thirst - links further down in this post. but unfortunately, you are ill-equipped. like a man without shoes planning to run a 100KM marathon. you don't know arabic or urdu - except for the scraps of defective english translations, what else do you have?

---

this is classic RUNNING AWAY.

you added your interpretation and meanings to the qur'an and tried to impose limits on the knowledge of the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, without any shame. and you squeak: "hope that clarify" no. that not clarify.

a person who is unable to read arabic or write two proper sentences in english wants to argue about the lofty knowledge of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and impose limits by his own interpretation! sub'HanAllah. you have to first accept that nabiy sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam was given ilm al-ghayb, according to the qur'anic verse. how much was this knowledge? that is a different question.

once you accept that, you will have to refrain from accusing muslims of 'committing shirk' because they say: "RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam was given ilm al-ghayb". otherwise, you accuse the qur'an - al-iyadhu billah - of promoting shirk.


----
jalaa al-qulub by the muhaddith imam muhammad ja'afar al-kattani: download here. (three volumes)
dawla by the muhaddith and mujaddid, my master, alahazrat imam ahmad riDa khan al-baraylawi: download here.

----

you can prepare for answering on judgement day for this accusation. aur jahil se bahs ka kya fa'idah. you have not produced a single proof for your accusation that we are shia or shia offshoot.

why are you running away? patience. we will talk about the verses. but first, do you know what muTlaq and muqayyad mean?
one should know the meaning of this among other things.

without knowledge of various sciences of the qur'an - ulum al-qur'an, it is impossible to understand the qur'an. of course, one can read from tafasir and cite ulama - but one cannot attempt to craft meanings from the qur'an on their own, unless they have prerequisite knowledge.

- imam jalaluddin suyuti's al-itqan.
- imam zarkashi's al-burhan
- imam suyuti has a briefer version: al-taHbir.

those who do not have access to the above, should not argue about the meanings of the qur'an. it is Haram for delving into discussions or arguing about the meaning of the verses, without knowledge of various branches in the qur'an. one reason is that a person without an introduction to technical terms will not be able to understand the argument.

also, an abridged version of al-itqan by mawlana sayyid muhammad ibn alawi: zubdatu'l itqan.

 

Respond to this. Don't run away by passing allegations without evidence

 

i asked: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS AYAH MEANS?

قل هاتوا برهانكم إن كنتم صادقين

 

before starting the explanation @Muinzvision is making allegations for barelwis to be Shia offshoot

Give the evidence from the books of Ala-hazrat (https://www.ridawi.org/alahazrat-books-download/) as challenged before by Sidi @abu Hasan

so that we proceed with the explanation.

 

Quran hatu burhanukum is Quran 3134, 7:187 n 72:26...will you reject these quranic ayats which are self explanatory...

 

you should either give evidence for that or agree that you're a jahil who makes claims without evidence.

as the Quran says:

قل هاتوا برهانكم إن كنتم صادقين

do you know what this verse of the Quran means?

 

OK you agreed that only Allah is alim ul gaib...and you dud not find the answer for 5 things mentioned in 31:34, and you will check and comeback...trust me you will never come back on this n agree that Allah has not given those ilm mentioned in Quran...or else you would have explained...

Regarding whenever required I used...is not in Quran, but Quran verses were revealed over period of 23 years approx. Which are from ilm of Allah n was revealed to Prophet whenever ever required...I hope that clarify..

I m still waiting to hear from all you barelwi (shia offshoot) to agree that Allah has not given complete ilm from gaib as per 31:34 ..