critical thinking and criticising those who came before

Ma sha Allah Tabaaraka wa Ta'ala I hope brother Aasif Naqshbandi Jama'ati comes back to the forum he has been away for too long.

 

now naqshbandihaqqani

i am not so sure, these words could mean anything:

 

http://www.yanabi.com/index.php?/topic/429713-the-end-of-sunniskeptic/page__p__474823#entry474823

Allah bless you Asif.

 

so the above, may be, true!

 

I found this quote incredibly apt:

"It is more profound to believe that something is good because God commands it than to believe that God commands it because it is good." (Wittgenstein)

What is there to be jealous about?

Having reached the station of Yaqin is a great blessing, alhamduli Llah.

 

when the fox cannot eat the grapes they are sour.

 

http://www.masabih.org/showthread.php?t=4939

 

The new world lead by these western nations is what has destroyed the environment.

The Ottomans were aware of the fuel in the lands they occupied, they didn't use it because of the harmful effects it has on the environment.

Most Muslim rulers are western educated. Bashar Assad is a graduate of the UK.

What has this education done for the Muslim world?

 

Firstly, we must ask since when did Muslim scientific progress begin to dwindle?

It was within a few centuries of Ottoman Rule. I would say around late 1700s. Do brothers agree?

The Ottomans surpassed most in technology. They had war technology, navigation technology, civil engineering technology unparalleled. Recently an earthquake took place in Kurdish areas in the east of Turkey. In Ottomans times, most buildings were built earthquake proof.

Its only when the New World Order begain beginning 1800s and the west colonised Islamic lands, plunged them into wars, did Muslim scientific progress go into the lime light. Firstly, Muslim education was discouraged. When it was finally encouraged, then it was overshadowed by most progress being physically shifted to the west. Resources were shifted to the West. Already the west was advanced and much ahead, and this overshadowed any light of progress back home.

Its only recently, that the world has become globalized do we have cases of Muslim scientists re-appearing, but not without the help of the already advanced west.

For example, the technology surrounding Supervisory control [the horsepower behind all manufacturing control process- in the entire world]. it was designed and taught from the west.

Muslims are learning it from the west, and building automated manufacturing processes. So now you can ask whether in the near future Muslim scientists will work towards any new inventions, now that they have the same tools as those are in the west [now that they are on equal footing in terms of advancement with the west]

So, the premise of this thread is partially flawed, as it is not that informed on historical contexts.

 

“I have been given words which are concise, but comprehensive in meaning” [Bukhari and Muslim].

 

The growth and power of Zionism is also found in the hadith:

Abu Hurairah radiyAllahu anhu related that the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam said, "The Hour will not come to pass until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill them. A Jew will hide behind a rock and a tree; the rock and tree will say, '0 Muslim - 0 'Abdullah, this is a Jew behind
me, so come and kill him.' The only exception is the Gharqad tree (a
tree that grows anywhere between 1 and 3 meters high; its root and
its branches are white)), for it is the tree of the Jews." (Ahmad)

Colonialism and its root cause:

On the authority of Thawbaan , the Prophet sallAllahu alaihi wasallam said:

“The Nations will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their food.” Someone asked, “Will that be because of our small numbers at that time?” He replied, “No, you will be numerous at that time: but you will be froth and scum like that carried down by a torrent (of water), and Allah will take the fear of you from the breasts (hearts) of your enemy and cast al-wahn into your hearts.” Someone asked, “O Messenger of Allah, what is al-wahn?” He replied, “Love of the world and dislike of death.” [An authentic hadith recorded by Abu Dawud and Ahmad]

 

When Muslim political power dwindled their contributions to worldly sciences also diminished with.

Governments have lost interest. They don't care about the development of the Muslim world but their own pocket.

Why did political power dwindle?

"Your love for the world and your hate for fighting."

 

When Dajjaal appears, he will also convince people that he is presenting facts. Like his pre cursors have convinced some that evolution is a fact.

The Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam said, "Indeed the believer will go to him, thinking that he is a believer, but he will end up following the
Dajjaal because of the specious arguments he stirs within him."

 

Okay Sidi KS but why have Muslim scientists made no original contributions for centuries? What happened?

 

You mentioned, asking why Europe is so advanced:


The Qurashee Mustaurid (importer) said, "I heard the Messenger of
Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam say, 'The Hour will not come until the Romans will be greatest in numbers."' News of this reached 'Amr ibn Al-'Aas radiyAllahu anhu, who said (to the Qurashee Mustaurid), "What are these Ahaadeeth,
about which it is mentioned that you say them from the Messenger
of Allah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam?" He said, "I said what I heard from the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam." 'Amr said, "If you said that, then indeed they are the most judicious of people during a trial, the quickest to recover during a calamity, and the best of people to their poor ones and
weak ones." (Muslim)

 

No one is disagreeing with you on the benefits and uses of science and technology. Even in Pakistan, the U'lama have never opposed technology, development, inventions and gadgets. They have encouraged it. Some even have Dr Abdul Qadeer's introduction on their books.

It has only been corrupt politicians and despots who have held the Muslim world back in recent times. Look at the Arab dictators, all are secular. Compare them with Shi'ite Iran which is termed a 'theocracy'. Yes we disagree with them on doctrinal issues but they have their good points.

In the first two hundred years of Islam who was responsible for the advance of science in the Muslim world? It was two principle groups 1 the rulers 2 the scientists.
Otherwise, we never hear of the contributions to science by Imam Abu Hanifah or Imam Malik? Or the scientific theories of Imam Bukhari? Why? Because these U'lama were preserving the Quran, Hadith and the correct beliefs.
The rulers, the Ummayad dynasty and then the Abbasid dynasty preserved the economy, military and scientific achievements. It is this class which has failed us today, the rulers.
'Abdullah ibn 'Amr related that the Messenger of Allah * said,
"Verily, Allah azza wa jalla does not seize knowledge by force, taking it
forcefully from the people; instead, He takes away knowledge by
the death of the scholars, until their remains no scholar. The people
will take ignorant leaders, who will be asked, and who will rule
without knowledge. They are misguided and they will misguide
others."


'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood reported that the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alai wasallam;
said, "Indeed Islam began new and strange and it shall return as it
began - new and strange. So glad tidings to the strangers." (Muslim)
It was asked, "And who are the strangers?" He, said, "Those who
are far away from the tribes." (Ibn Majah)

Abu Hurairah related that the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam said, "If
your leaders are the best among you, if your chiefs and people of
status are the most generous among you, and if your affairs are
conducted through mutual consultation among you, then the face of
the earth is better for you. But if your rulers are the most evil among
you, if the rich among you are also the most miserly of you, and if
your affairs are trusted to your women, then beneath the earth (i.e.
in your graves) is better for you than being on the face of it." (Muwatta Imam Malik)

Aleem said, 'Verily, I heard the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam, say, 'Hasten to death before the following: the coming of foolish rulers; an increase in the
number of special guards (for the ruler); the selling of judgments
(i.e. judgments are purchased through bribery); blood being deemed
insignificant (i.e. much killing, without people considering there to
be value to life); the breaking off of family ties; and the presence of a
group that takes the Qur'an as a flute (i.e. saying it in a melodious
but affected and extravagant manner), gives it to the people, and
diverts them with it (from the true purpose of the Qur'an), though
they have the least understanding among them.


Az-Zubair related that 'Adee said, "We went to Anas ibn Maalik
and complained to him about the ill-treatment we receive from Al-
Hajjaaj. He said, 'Be patient, for no era comes upon a people except
that the one that follows it is even worse, (and this will continue)
until you meet your Lord. I heard this from your Prophet, sallAllahu alaihi wasallam. (Bukhari)

The neighbor of Jaabir ibn 'Abdullah radiyAllahu anhu said, "When I returned from
a journey, Jaabir came to give me greetings of peace. I began to tell
him about division among the people and some of the new (and
blameworthy) matters that they were doing. Jaabir began to cry, and
then he said, 'I heard the Messenger of Allah say: Indeed people
entered into Allah's religion in throngs and they will leave it in
throngs."' (Ahmad)

Abu Hurairah said that he heard the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihiwasallam, say to
Thaubaan, "How will you be when the nations will call each
other upon you as those who are dining call each other to their
dish?" Thaubaan asked, "...0 Messenger of Allah, will that be
because we will be few (in number)?" He e; said, "No, rather at that
time you will be many, yet AI-Wahn will be cast into your hearts."
"And what is AI-Wahn, 0 Messenger of Allah?" The Prophet' sallAllahu alaihi wasallam`,"
said, "Your love for the world and your hate for fighting." (Ahmad)

Abu Hurairah related that the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam, said, "Woe
to the Arabs from an evil that is indeed near - trials like pieces of the
dark, black night. In the morning, a man will be a believer, but in the
night, he will be a disbeliever. People will sell their religion for a
paltry, worldly sum. At that time, one who is adhering to his
religion will be like one who is grasping on embers," or he said, "on
thorns." (Ahmad)

 

another example: khalaqul insaana min alaq. in the older translations it says things like he created man from a blood clot or jame huwe khoon se paida kiya etc. but we know it is from the semen so now many translations use the words 'something which clings' as a translation of alaq which is apparently one of the meanings of the word.

look, i just want to see a prosperous muslim world, developed, technologically advanced, militarily powerful and socially cohesive, caring, giving, fair societies with welfare states and equal opportunity for all and no corruption or minimal corruption. by becoming better muslims in terms of ibaabaat it can help us with the latter humane qualities but not in things like having better technology which we develop ourselves [as in the distant past] and not have to buy from the Other nor make us militarily powerful etc.

sadly, this world is one where might is right and strength comes from economic independence and military might which can only come from advanced indigenous science and technology. how many of the muslim scientists and engineers make new advances? all of them are just learning stuff and most of the time it is western science/technology they are learning--not contributing novel ideas and advances. those who do are almost without exception either educated in the west or working in western research institutions. yet some people aren't willing to take their heads out of the sand like ostriches.

yes, in an ideal world there'd be no nukes but that is never going to happen so isn't it more logical to be prepared yourself. as for the ethics of nanotechnology, bioengineering etc. yes, i am aware of such issues but they only become a serious issue when you are able to do some of the research yourself. to dismiss them totally as evil technologies is also absurd. that attitude is worse than those of the most fundo christians in the USA who are intent on banning stem cell research. all these technologies in my opinion are just tools to be used for the benefit of mankind but first we need to have our own institutes which can carry out independent research is such areas before we discuss the rights and wrongs.

can i ask out of interest how many of you live either in the West [EU, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, OECD) or the oil-rich Arab Gulf States?

Since you are all fond of quoting hadith sharif what about the one which says knowledge is the lost property of the believer he takes it from wherever he finds it?

 

its simple really: we don't need to change anything unless it has proven to be without doubt something which is true by repeated observation. for example, that the earth is not stationary but moving about the sun and also rotating on its axis is a fact beyond doubt. so we have to interpret those verses which say the earth is fixed in some other manner than the literal.

and the weight of the scientific establishment seems to be overwhelmingly in favour of the fact that evolution is also a fact. yes there are differences in some of the mechanisms involved but no serious respected scientist doubts the fact that evolution has occured. now, although my head and intellect tells me that it is true i still do not believe it 100% because it apparently appears to go against the creation of Hazrat Adam story in the Koran Sharif. Now, the question I am asking is how can we accept both as being true without violating the koranic story. one solution could be that evolution is true for all species except for homo sapiens sapiens. i don't know the answer but when they can take a sample of your DNA and trace your ancestry all the way back to africa it is pretty compelling. why is it we share 98% of our DNA with chimps?

all i am saying is when the evidence becomes overwhelming than we need to look carefully again at how we understand the verses of the koran because per our belief the koran is the infallible word of God so how can it be wrong?

--
belief is something in the heart and alhamdulillah i have it but that doesn't mean my intellect will not ask questions.

i will ignore the more crass fassy-holes who replied. but people like sidi KS and AH hope you understand where i am coming from.

 

Yes, I'd like to know from sidi NJ what exactly are the boundaries and methodology by which we go about changing our doctirine to incorporate such 'facts'.

 

How many other 'facts' shall we include to reinterpret our doctrine?