T J Winters on Christians and Jews Being Saved

Big homie,

Though I accept your cited position would it not make more sense to verify exactly what x, y & z said before making takfir on them?This is just a witch hunt....AND IF so & so holds such and such views which are non congruous with normative Sunni Creed than instead of slandering him allow a person of learning to give him' nasiah' and give him time to rectify himself...just as cherries blossom in Spring so a man will be nurtured over time. ..

Finally....3 people together are akin to 1 Zhuge Liang

 

Chrome is great bro,it somehow can get thru the Chinese Firewall for sites as this..IE,Mozilla can not...

 

Maybe homeboy...but I don't need too as the same clap rap is available on any forum where people think highly of their own opinions & give no thought to slandering Scholars. I feel safer with a fallible Hamza Yusuf or AHM than any Tom,Dick Or Harry & his 2 bit view on the net...

In Chinese we say,'ren yao lian, shu yao pi'. That as a person needs face a tree needs bark, meaning reputation is everything. I look forward to the same people sladering these guys saying how wonderful they are when they say something they agree with-like the Deobandis and Shiekh Yacoubi after he gave Ale Hazrat props on Takbeer TV-suddenly he was this & that. Y'all actin' like.....get off ......

Remember,
十年樹木，百年樹人。(shí nián shù mù, bǎi nián shù rén)

Education & cultivation take time, don't destroy the forest because you can't see the bark from the trees

 

it isn't jummah jummah aTh dihaareh when scholars also refute him nor when something is said which is clearly against the Necessities of the Deen. Definition of Necessities is those things which are known even to the common Muslim.

 

Imran,

Although he has done good work in the past no one is above the Shariah. If he makes comments such as these and holds and promotes blasphemous beliefs which are clearly against the teachings of Ahle Sunnah, such as the belief that Christians and Jews and other non-Muslims will also be saved and get the Shafaat of Our Master صلى الله عليه وسلم then it is necessary to stop respecting him and expose his mistakes.

After all, how many people will be led astray by this? This isnt even a deep theological issue. It is one of the basic necessities of the deen of Islam that in the akhirat salvation is ONLY for the Muslims especially for those people who are born since Rasul Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم announced their mission. The exception our scholars have mentioned is perhaps for children who die before onset of puberty or those who are from remote tribes and have not heard of islam. even then there is difference about what will happen to them. NO Sunni aalim has ever advocated a carte blanche for all! This is kufr pure and simple.

 

The speaker is Shaykh Muhammad Asrar hafidhullah.

I am using chrome, I didn't have a problem

 

Maybe you should access it before making a comment.

 

I cant access Youtube in China,any where else I can find this?

AHM is a man of much learning & hkma regarding Islam-unlike most people criticizing him here who probably don't know the basics...

You should have some taqwa about speaking about people behind screen names , esp about people who have done so much for this deen...the expression 'jummah jummah aht diyariah comes to mind...

 

It is not a mistake. The man is working on someone's payroll. He is an enemy of Islam hiding behind the veil of tasawwuf and dawah. Won't last long insha Allah.

 

Remember this discusiion?:

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=8090&highlight=shaykh+asrar

The above speech was taken from the following conference:

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=8022&highlight=shaykh+asrar

 

Hamza Yusuf writes:

The verse in the Quran categorizing those who will be saved states,
Surely those who believe, and the Jews, Christians,
and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, has
their reward with their Lord and shall neither fear nor grieve” (2:62).

In the article by Hamza Yusuf on Islam and Buddhism he utterly misreads, misinterprets and misunderstands the above verse. A far better translation is this from Muhaddis-e-Azam-e-Hind's Maariful Quran:

Without doubt Muslim peoples and Jewish peoples, and Christian peoples and Sabian peoples, who have now genuinely believed in Allah and the last day, and performed deeds worthy of doing, then for them there is reward with their Lord. And neither is there any fear on them and nor any grief (2:62)

(the italic is mine to highlight Hamza Yusuf's mistake)

It is the belief of the peoples mentioned after they have embraced Islam and left their false beliefs which will lead to salvation, not staying on their existing fasle beliefs as hamza yusuf states. This is a basic and elementary mistake by Hamza Yusuf - otheriwsie if you follow his logic then you don't have to be a Muslim to go to heaven!!!!!!

And the last line of the translation's conclusion would be:
And neither is there any fear on them and nor any grief for their previously held beliefs, deeds and actions.

 

This is a marvel:

http://www.zaytuna.org/WhoAretheDisbelievers.pdf

 

Who is the speaker? Btw, it doesn't work on chrome. I have to use IE. Anyone else also have the same issue?

 

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7251969

Listen to the talk at 10 mins!!!

 

ala hazrat :ra: would strictly forbid sunnis from having anything to do with these kinds of organisations. have people forgotten, "Allah hath chosen ISLAM for you as your religion."

If all religions had truth in them and everyone except a tiny few are saved in the Akhirah (astaghfirullah) what was the point of sending Prophets to guide people?!
These people have made islam into a joke...

 

:s1:

la hawla wa la quwwata ila billah...

how is this tosh different from perrenialism? this kind of rubbish strikes at the very heart of islamic teachings. i have lost all respect for hamza yusuf. it is worse than the nadwah because at least the nadwis only tried to have an umbrella uniting all the so-called muslims but these modern "sunnis" are trying to tell us there is truth in religions which are not even recognised by classical islam! (see sidi abdal qadir's post above where he quotes from jaa al haq. next we will have people telling us that we should also respect the monkey tailed hanuman and elephant-headed ganesha?!

astaghfirullah! toobu ilallah!

Stick to the traditional Sunni scholars.

 

I just happened to remember Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan Naeemi's Jaa'al Haqq, Urdu Copy, Part 1, Page 163, (Chapter, Nabi ki tareef aur un key darajaat key bayaan mein) - where he talks about this point mentioned by the islambudhhism guys.

He clearly mentions the hindu cartoons AND budhha by name in the same breath, and a paragraph below says:

"there is no Shar3iy proof of their existence. Quran and Hadith don't inform of them. The only way we know of them is through idol worshipers, and that too in a way that someone has 4 hands, 6 feet, someone has an elephant's trunk on his face, someone has a babboon's tail on his arse. Their names as well as faces are fabricated. The Lord has said to the Arab idol worshipers: these are none but names concocted by you and your fathers"

 

Ok let me be blunt here:

Who here thinks that the following are uplifting to Islam, and who here thinks they are destructive sulh-i-kill fitnah's for Islam which are bent on destroying (and even if not intended, will destroy) not just the superiority of the Ahlus Sunnah above the Ahlal Bid3ah, but also that of Islam above kufr. Islam has been reduced to a mere beneficial lifestyle choice for duniya, as well, in the akhirah, we'll all hang out at the same country club and play golf with hanson, winters, and our jewish, christian and budhhist buddies:

http://www.parliamentofreligions.org/

http://www.acommonword.com/

http://www.ammanmessage.com/

http://www.aalalbayt.org/

http://www.rissc.jo

Let's be honest and be open here.

the name hamza doesn't suit "george w bush's pet scholar" as he is called by the American wahabis, and sadly, they are right.

 

after reading his 'essay' in the book, the least i can say is, hamza hanson has lost his mind.

this 'minority fiqh' and groveling at the bhiku's door, is the californian version of the nadwah.

al-iyadhu billah.

unlike some people, we are not ashamed of our religion, nor do we think that we need to learn from any other religion. alHamdulillah, our religion is complete and we don't need the approval of celebrities.

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muslims should be urged to boycott this kind of 'scholars' and throw their 'wisdom' in their face. muslims do not have to suffer this kind of humiliation, piled upon us by those who claim to represent us. do these fools not realize that they will soon die and their handsome faces will rot, and their hypocrisy and craving for worldly fame will be abruptly cut off. and as islam will be renewed, those who come after will look back and censure them as cowards, liars, pusillanimous mountebanks, those who sold their faith for worthless dunya...

if they are still not ashamed, let them look at the conviction and courage of a christian woman politician who so boldly encourages her own people to conform to 'christian values.'

and, these are supposed to be men.

astaghfirullahi'l a'azeem.

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when you look at them, their physiques [outward appearances] are pleasing to you; and when they speak, you wouldst listen unto them. as if they are hollow, propped up [pieces of] wood. they fear every cry, that it is upon them. they are enemies, and be careful of them! may Allah destroy them, where [do they think] they are going? [al-munafiqun, v.4]

ibn kathir: that is [the hypocrites] have beautiful faces and have eloquent tongues; and if one hears their speech, he would be drawn towards them because of their eloquence. in spite of this, they are weak and cowardly; therefore the Lord says: 'they fear every cry, that it is upon them', that is, if any serious matter occurs, or one of fear, they think that it is falling on them, on account of their cowardice.

al-qurtubi: the simile of 'propped up piece of hollow wood' is that they neither listen, nor think; they are mere figures without souls.

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near Allah, islam is the only religion [aal imran, v.19]

this day, i have perfected your religion for you, and completed my favors upon you, and pleased with Islam for you as your religion. [al-mayidah, v.3]

wAllahu ta'ala a'alam.