aap, tum, tu, tera

Discussion in 'Hadayiq e Bakhshish' started by abu Hasan, May 17, 2022.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    come to think of it.

    i was telling a brother that alahazrat has reached such a high position in the urdu language, that anything he writes becomes the standard.
    and his usage is the yardstick to evaluate all others.

    it is a shame that poets - fussaq and irreligious men (fayz anyone?) are spoken highly for their 'art' and eloquence; whereas alahazrat's writing is largely ignored and not even considered as literary masterpiece, even though his urdu is head and shoulders above all of the so called 'masters of urdu'.

    jis samt aa gaye ho, sikkey biTha' diye hain!

  2. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    some confusion here - Peer Naseeruddin was from Golra shareef, not Eidgah shareef.

    The present sajjadah nasheen at Eidgah is Peer Naqeeb urRehman sahab.
  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    the verse is about 20th century, however it perfectly befits the the imbeciles of this century too. i don't know who wrote it but with a slight modification by a brother we can read it this way without disturbing the meter

    اکیسویں صدی کا عجوبہ بھی دیکھيے
    قطرہ اچھل رہا ہے سمندر کے سامنے

    ikisween sadi ka a'juba bhi daikhiyay
    qatrah uchal raha hay samandar kay saamnay
  4. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    یہ بیسویں صدی کا عجوبہ تو دیکھيے
    قطرہ اچھل رہا ہے سمندر کے سامنے
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  5. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    "aap" is not used for Allah ta'ala also - does it mean that "tu" is disrespectful for HIM?

    replacing 'tu" with "aap" actually takes away the beauty of the kalaam.

    reminds me of the simple rule: you need to know more if you want to check or criticize someone else's work. the student does not check his teachers work, does he??

    these guys need to have more Ishq of Allah's prophet, or need to know more Urdu or the rules of poetry than Ala Hazrat, to be able to even comment on his works.
    Noori and Ghulam Ali like this.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    spitting at the sun?
    Shahzaib and Umer97 like this.
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    The eidgah pirs. We'd ignore but they have a large Sunni following and are creating hatred for Alahazrat by objecting to his poems.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    kis ka muNh takiye, kahaN jaayiye, kis se kahiye
    tere hi qadmoN pe miT jaaye ye paala teraa

  9. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran


    Mulke Sukhan Ki Shahi Tum Ko Raza Musallam, Jis Simt Aagaye ho sikhe Bithaa diye hai!
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the next part is also good:

    Noori likes this.
  11. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    Pyare aH, Aaps from Eidgah are from Pothwar and as you can see are native Urdu speakers

    Mah akhna Urdu hamari zaban hai pyare!
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  12. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator


    the context is what makes the difference. imho, addressing thus introduces a degree of abstraction - and while there is a sense of belonging, the aloofness preponderates whereas in the usages like 'aap', 'aapka' etc. it's vice-versa. So the usage will vary with the kayfiyah which the verses are trying to convey.


    aap se karta hai fariyad ke ya shah-e-rusul
    banda bekas hai shaha raham me waqfa kya hai

    ab koi dam me giraftare bala hota hun
    aap aajaye aaqa kya khauf hai khatka kya hai


    lo wo aaya mera haami lo wo aaya mera haami...

    I also think, this is somewhat akin to the usages of both "I" and "We" in the qur'an al-kareem.

    and Allah ta'ala knows best.
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    don't complicate things.

    tu, tum, tera, tujh in poetry, is used as a term of respect with love - anyone who considers it disrespectful is ignorant of the language.
    those of us who speak/read urdu as a mother tongue understand certain things instinctively without a requiring a research paper to explain the usage.

    i hope people do not begin questioning whether the following lines are rational (does arsh have a head and a mind and hence aql?):

    arsh ki aql dang hai, charkh meiN aasman hai

    or accuse ulama of promoting cannibalism:

    kabab e aahu mein bhi na paaya maza jo dil ke kabab mein hai

    or confidently assert that sunni ulama encourage muslims to become acrobats before proceeding to madinah:

    haram ki zameeN aur qadam rakh ke chalna?
    arey sar ka mauqa hai o jaane waley

    get over it. if your mind is incapable of appreciating poetry, stick to bland prose. don't try to measure the fragrance of flowers in SI units.
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    who is it? if they are not native urdu speakers, nor authorities on the language, they can be safely ignored.

    ye hamari zaban hai pyare!
    Noman Farooqui likes this.
  15. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider اللَه المقدر والعالم شؤون لا تكثر لهمك ما قدر يكون

    Does it have to do with the fact that we refer to Allah ﷻ in the singular form because of his unity, likewise using tu for Nabi e Pak ﷺ mimics that same notion of (uniqueness, and singularity).

    Allah Knows best ﷺ
  16. Umer97

    Umer97 Student of Knowledge

    ive heard in gatherings of the custodians of eidgah sharif that when 'chamak tujsay paatay hain' (kalam of ala hazrat) is read they change the words 'tu zinda hain WaAllah' into 'Aap zinda hain waAllah'

    i asked one of their mureeds why they changed it they said it sounds more respectful. not knowing that it was ala hazrat who taught us love of the Messenger of Allah sal'lallaa'hu'alayhi'wasallam
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  17. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Alahazrat uses 'tera' for RasulAllah ﷺ

    Some object that this isn't respectful. Can someone write a good reply to this.

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